Afghanistan: The 7/11 problem

DOGS THAT BARK

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By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, June 25, 2010

President Obama was fully justified in dismissing Gen. Stanley McChrystal. The firing offense did not rise to the level of insubordination -- this was no MacArthur undermining the commander in chief's war strategy -- but it was a serious enough show of disrespect for the president and for the entire civilian leadership to justify relief from his post.

Moreover, choosing David Petraeus to succeed McChrystal was the best possible means of minimizing the disruption that comes with every change of command, and of reaffirming that the current strategy will be pursued with equal vigor.
The administration is hoping that Petraeus can replicate his Iraq miracle. This includes Democrats who, when Petraeus testified to Congress about the Iraq surge in September 2007, accused him of requiring "the willing suspension of disbelief" (Sen. Hillary Clinton) or refused to vote for the Senate resolution condemning that shameful "General Betray Us" newspaper ad (Sen. Barack Obama).
However, two major factors distinguish the Afghan from the Iraqi surge. First is the alarming weakness and ineptness -- to say nothing of the corruption -- of the Afghan central government. One of the reasons the U.S. offensive in Marja has faltered is that there is no Afghan "government in a box" to provide authority for territory that the U.S. military clears.

In Iraq, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, after many mixed signals, eventually showed that he could act as a competent national leader rather than a sectarian one when he attacked Moqtada al-Sadr's stronghold in Basra, faced down the Mahdi Army in the other major cities in the south and took the fight into Sadr City in Baghdad itself. In Afghanistan, on the other hand, President Hamid Karzai makes public overtures to the Taliban, signaling that he is already hedging his bets.
But beyond indecision in Kabul, there is indecision in Washington. When the president of the United States announces the Afghan surge and, in the very next sentence, announces the date on which a U.S. withdrawal will begin, the Afghans -- from president to peasant -- take note.

This past Sunday, White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel reiterated that July 2011 is a hard date. And Vice President Biden is adamant that "in July of 2011 you're going to see a whole lot of people moving out. Bet on it."
Now, Washington sophisticates may interpret this two-step as a mere political feint to Obama's left -- just another case of a president facing a difficult midterm and his own reelection, trying to placate the base. They don't take this withdrawal date too seriously.

Problem is, Afghans are not quite as sophisticated in interpreting American intraparty maneuvering. This kind of Washington nuance does not translate into Pashto. They hear about an American departure date and they think about what will happen to them when the Americans leave. The Taliban will remain, and what it lacks in popular support -- it polls only 6 percent -- it makes up in terror: When Taliban fighters return to a village, they kill "collaborators" mercilessly, and publicly.

The surge succeeded in Iraq because the locals witnessed a massive deployment of U.S. troops to provide them security, which encouraged them to give us intelligence, which helped us track down the bad guys and kill them. This, as might be expected, led to further feelings of security by the locals, more intelligence provided us, more success in driving out the bad guys, and henceforth a virtuous cycle as security and trust and local intelligence fed each other.
But that depended on a larger understanding by the Iraqis that the American president was implacable -- famously stubborn, refusing to set any exit date, and determined to see the surge through. What President Bush's critics considered mulishness, the Iraqis saw as steadfastness.

What the Afghans hear from the current American president is a surge with an expiration date. An Afghan facing the life-or-death choice of which side to support can be forgiven for thinking that what Obama says is what Obama intends. That may be wrong, but if so, why doesn't Obama dispel that false impression? He doesn't even have to repudiate the July 2011 date, he simply but explicitly has to say: July 2011 is the target date, but only if conditions on the ground permit.
Obama has had every opportunity every single day to say that. He has not. In his Rose Garden statement firing McChrystal, he pointedly declined once again to do so.

If you were Karzai, or a peasant in Marja, you'd be hedging your bets too.
 

rusty

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Under a mask.
McChrystals firing is a blessing in disguise.

McChrystals firing is a blessing in disguise.

Senior Afghan Taliban killed: NATO
AFP

*
Petraeus ,I would like to thank you for already getting things back on track in only a few days.
There's no doubt you should of been in charge from the start.


Sat Jun 26, 5:50 am ET

KABUL (AFP) ? A senior Taliban commander disguised in woman's clothes was killed by Afghan and international forces when he fired on troops trying to catch him south of Kabul, the military said Saturday.

NATO and Afghan security forces cornered Ghulam Sakhi at a compound on Friday night in Logar province's Puli Alam district, and called for women and children to leave the building, a coalition statement said.

"As they were exiting, Sakhi came out with the group disguised in women's attire and pulled out a pistol and a grenade and shot at the security force," the statement by NATO's International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) said.

"When Afghan and coalition forces shot him he dropped the grenade and it detonated, wounding a woman and two children," it said.

Sakhi was known by several aliases and was involved in attacks on Afghan and foreign forces using improvised explosive devises (IEDs), the main Taliban weapon in the war now in its ninth year.

He had also been involved in the kidnap and killing of a security chief in Logar province, ISAF said.

Afghan and international forces also killed several insurgents in an air strike Friday night in the southern province of Zabul, ISAF said.

After the air strike aimed at groups waging roadside bomb attacks, troops found materials used for making IEDs, as well as automatic weapons and rocket-propelled grenade launchers at the scene, it said.

The statement added that the military took steps to protect civilians before calling in the air strike.

Civilian casualties are an incendiary issue in Afghanistan, even though the United Nations reported early this year that the vast majority of civilian deaths are caused by Taliban attacks.

The former commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan, US General Stanley McChrystal, limited air strikes as he made minimizing civilian casualties a major tenet of his counter-insurgency strategy.

McChrystal was sacked this week for insubordination and replaced by General David Petraeus, the chief architect of the counter-insurgency strategy.
 

Trench

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Another puff piece from DTB's favorite proponent of American hegemony...

krauthammer_klingon.jpg


Trench
 

Chadman

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What a visionary thought from Krauthammer. Iraqi's felt more secure since tens of thousands of U.S. troops, firepower, and the second largest airbase in the world that we created are still in their country (indefinitely, I guess), compared to this perhaps not happening in Afghanistan.

Thanks for the clarity, Hammer-Time.
:rolleyes:
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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What a visionary thought from Krauthammer. Iraqi's felt more secure since tens of thousands of U.S. troops, firepower, and the second largest airbase in the world that we created are still in their country (indefinitely, I guess), compared to this perhaps not happening in Afghanistan.

Thanks for the clarity, Hammer-Time.
:rolleyes:

He is consistant as said same thing about time table in Iraq.

--of course --one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to know--if your telling people in another country your gone--they are going to side with those that will be there afterwards.
That would come under heading --common sense.

Primary reason surged worked in Iraq is people there believed GW to not be one to say one thing and do another--like his father did/to the extreme!

Out of curiousity--how many here think sending in 60,000 additional troops and saying we are pulling out 18 months later is a tad bit out there--in fact O got so much flak over he's now adding "if conditions warrent".

--with that being said I will reiterate what I said previously--I do like their strategy on the border and they have had good success there IMO--so have to give credit where credit is due- I would not be disappointed if they reduced troops and concentrated in that area, however unlike Iraq they will never be in position to be in solely support position like in Iraq- as Afgan will never have a competent military of their own anywhere in near future.
 

Chadman

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Thus, what is the point in Afghanistan to stay there indefinitely? If they will never have any kind of competent military force there? By reducing troops, you reduce the ability to fight whatever is there. If you stay and fight there in one concentrated area, the terrorists will probably just move to another area. So, a strong show, going after the bad guys, trying to knock off as many as we can during the time we're there, then move out, and rethink our position, saving lives, money, and better positioning our fighting forces mentally, physically, and strategically in the future.

Seems like a prudent plan to me. I agree with you on the Iraq thing. We're in better shape in Iraq, since we took over the country and will always have to keep tens of thousands of our troops there, along with a lot of our firepower there, just to protect what we built there. Definitely not rocket science - or maybe it is, in Iraq.

As for what GW said and did - he said we would not occupy Iraq forever, and that Iraq oil would pay for our time and efforts there. He most certainly did not follow through with either of those statements (or lies, depending on what side of the fence you sit on). In fact, his plan there could not possibly allow for either of those things to happen, unless we are to leave our palace and air base unprotected there. So, what does that say to anyone with an objective mind for "common sense?"
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Thus, what is the point in Afghanistan to stay there indefinitely? If they will never have any kind of competent military force there? By reducing troops, you reduce the ability to fight whatever is there. If you stay and fight there in one concentrated area, the terrorists will probably just move to another area. So, a strong show, going after the bad guys, trying to knock off as many as we can during the time we're there, then move out, and rethink our position, saving lives, money, and better positioning our fighting forces mentally, physically, and strategically in the future.

Seems like a prudent plan to me. I agree with you on the Iraq thing. We're in better shape in Iraq, since we took over the country and will always have to keep tens of thousands of our troops there, along with a lot of our firepower there, just to protect what we built there. Definitely not rocket science - or maybe it is, in Iraq.

As for what GW said and did - he said we would not occupy Iraq forever, and that Iraq oil would pay for our time and efforts there. He most certainly did not follow through with either of those statements (or lies, depending on what side of the fence you sit on). In fact, his plan there could not possibly allow for either of those things to happen, unless we are to leave our palace and air base unprotected there. So, what does that say to anyone with an objective mind for "common sense?"

Good points Chad --my main reason for staying at border is two fold-
-that is area where most of pakistans terrorist reside--and they may need help in future and currently have stable gov for most part-

-and I like having presence in that region--you can do lots of damage with drones in all part of afgan without troops being put at risk.
The terrorist anxiety level is always maxed and they never feel safe.
 

kcwolf

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I think we should be open and blunt about it. We put the right people on our payroll in Pakistan - bribes, to protect the border. Put up more satellites if needed, more drones, and let the crooked Karzi sleep in the bed he made, and by bringing most of the troops home. The bribery made millionaires of many Iraqis with the bribes there, was a great decision, and worked.
 

Trampled Underfoot

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You never heard me bitch about defence spending under any admin.

It that cradle to grave gov tit you and your base been knawing on--I have issues with.

Learn how to spell it. Jesus Christ.

Don't fucking assume you know anything about me, dirtbag.

I really hope there is a God for people like you. Once again we see an example of how you would rather kill people around the globe rather than take care of your fellow American. Its pathetic.
 

rusty

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Learn how to spell it. Jesus Christ.

Don't fucking assume you know anything about me, dirtbag.

I really hope there is a God for people like you. Once again we see an example of how you would rather kill people around the globe rather than take care of your fellow American. Its pathetic.

I for one am for defense spending.Unfortunately to stop killers we need to kill.God understands the need to kill.Many kings favored by GOD had to kill to survive.The terrorists MUST be stopped at all cost.

If we have to kill to stop the killing so be it.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Learn how to spell it. Jesus Christ.

Don't fucking assume you know anything about me, dirtbag.

I really hope there is a God for people like you. Once again we see an example of how you would rather kill people around the globe rather than take care of your fellow American. Its pathetic.

--we have already discussed your opinions at length--

Bump
http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=412119&page=2

"My point was Tramp --that as with this tread--you come in with some negative BS totally unrelated. Unless your telling someone how stupid they are you rarily have anything to say.

This is about the nth time you came in with your "who cares" gambit on someone--so I figured I would point out the epitome of "who cares" to you--that being- you have been here since 2001--we have over 35,500 members here- and not one person has came forth saying they know who you are-what you do- even if someone pays them. So I ask you- who cares about opinions of a 0."
:0008
 

Trampled Underfoot

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--we have already discussed your opinions at length--

Bump
http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=412119&page=2

"My point was Tramp --that as with this tread--you come in with some negative BS totally unrelated. Unless your telling someone how stupid they are you rarily have anything to say.

This is about the nth time you came in with your "who cares" gambit on someone--so I figured I would point out the epitome of "who cares" to you--that being- you have been here since 2001--we have over 35,500 members here- and not one person has came forth saying they know who you are-what you do- even if someone pays them. So I ask you- who cares about opinions of a 0."
:0008

I would argue that someone so dependent on Internet friends is much more likely to be a "0". Once again this is outstanding logic by you. All you are missing is a chart that shows people with Internet friends don't take one penny of public assistance. :facepalm:
 
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