Not Cliff Lee but...

[oceanguy]

Twins acquire Matt Capps :0074

Now with Pavano, Liriano and Duensing anchoring the rotation, solid set up guys, and a REAL closer, Twins fans should be excited...and when Morneau returns :toast:

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Ramos must have completely fallen off of a cliff this year to only net Capps in a trade. I actually did a doubletake when I saw that one on the ESPN ticker. I'm not a follower of the Twins, but I thought Ramos was one of their best prospects. :shrug: I know he's blocked by Mauer, but it just seems odd that all they could get was Matt Capps.

I know Capps has looked pretty good this year, but he was one of the worst relievers in baseball last year. Maybe last year was just a fluke year for Capps, but it seems like the Twins are taking a helluva risk here. We'll obviously have to wait and see how this one plays out before we can know who got the better of this trade, but at first glance it looks like the Nats did quite well. Either that, or Ramos was one of the more overhyped prospects in recent memory.

 

[shawn555]

Ramos must have completely fallen off of a cliff this year to only net Capps in a trade. I actually did a doubletake when I saw that one on the ESPN ticker. I'm not a follower of the Twins, but I thought Ramos was one of their best prospects. :shrug: I know he's blocked by Mauer, but it just seems odd that all they could get was Matt Capps.

I know Capps has looked pretty good this year, but he was one of the worst relievers in baseball last year. Maybe last year was just a fluke year for Capps, but it seems like the Twins are taking a helluva risk here. We'll obviously have to wait and see how this one plays out before we can know who got the better of this trade, but at first glance it looks like the Nats did quite well. Either that, or Ramos was one of the more overhyped prospects in recent memory.

Yeah I agree. Shocked the Nats were able to turn Capps into Ramos.

Great job by Rizzo and the nats front office. Sign Capps and turn it into your future catcher.

Meanwhile up the street my orioles signed Mike Gonzalez instead of Capps and end up losing a 2nd round pick and getting a pitcher who has spent almost the whole season on DL.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Yeah I agree. Shocked the Nats were able to turn Capps into Ramos.

Great job by Rizzo and the nats front office. Sign Capps and turn it into your future catcher.

Meanwhile up the street my orioles signed Mike Gonzalez instead of Capps and end up losing a 2nd round pick and getting a pitcher who has spent almost the whole season on DL.

Yeah, this is looking like a brilliant trade by the Nats. They took a guy who up until this year had always been a below average pitcher, and then traded him when he had a career year and his trade value was at its absolute highest point. If only all FOs were that smart.

I wish my M's would have done that with Aardsma last year. He had been a bad pitcher his entire career, but somehow pulled a career year out of his ass last year. Rather than trade high they held on to him, and he reverted back to his old ways this season. This year's Matt Capps reminds me a lot of last year's David Aardsma.

 

[IE]

twins just wanted to make iit a fair fight with the white sox..... they have jenks and now they have capps!

_______


What in the world did Twin GM Bill Smith just do? Ramos has struggled at the Triple-A level this season and has no future with the Joe Mauer-led Twins, but to deal a top catching prospect for a middle relief rental seems misguided.

..........http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=414133

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

Yeah, this is looking like a brilliant trade by the Nats. They took a guy who up until this year had always been a below average pitcher, and then traded him when he had a career year and his trade value was at its absolute highest point. If only all FOs were that smart.

I wish my M's would have done that with Aardsma last year. He had been a bad pitcher his entire career, but somehow pulled a career year out of his ass last year. Rather than trade high they held on to him, and he reverted back to his old ways this season. This year's Matt Capps reminds me a lot of last year's David Aardsma.

I don't know where you guys are with Ramos but he has really slipped in the past year. As you can see with this deal. To think that he would be a centerpiece with Lee is crazy.

Aardsma hasn't really pitched much different than last year. Check out his ground ball numbers and all the metrics. I think he gets dealt tomorrow but maybe not. We'll see.

 

[bleedingpurple]

Matt Capps was a god closer 2 seasons ago and then became injured.. Totally healthy now and entering his prime.. Only 26 and has an arbitration year coming so the Twins will have him next season.. It sounds as though the Twins were a bit desperate to obtain a closer.. KFAN in the Twin Cities is hinting that Gardy really pushed for this trade. Joe Nathan coming off Tommy John surgery will probabbly not be an option for next year and if Capps can keep it together and healthy then the Twins have found a long term closer.. Ramose's stock has dropped since his offensive numbers have plummeted in the minors but his potential is high.. I being a Twins fan will be happy if Capps remains a consistent closer for the rest of this season and next season.. Twins have Mauer and Butera and other catching prospects. Ramos wasn't going to play anytime soon.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I don't know where you guys are with Ramos but he has really slipped in the past year. As you can see with this deal. To think that he would be a centerpiece with Lee is crazy.

Aardsma hasn't really pitched much different than last year. Check out his ground ball numbers and all the metrics. I think he gets dealt tomorrow but maybe not. We'll see.

Yeah, Ramos is definitely struggling this year, and that certainly dropped his trade value. I'm just not a fan of organizations selling low like this. As a fan, I'd rather see my team hold onto good prospects and try to let them work their way through it, as opposed to cutting them loose when they're still young and have nowhere to go but up (see: Brandon Morrow trade). You're right though, Ramos went from being mentioned as a possible centerpiece in ANY big deal, to this. They must have really soured on the guy.

Aardsma's numbers aren't quite as bad as I thought they were, but they are worse than last year. I just can't stand watching his one pitch, belt high fastball with no movement throwing ass. I hope you're right and he's gone tomorrow. I don't know how he could have much trade value, but it sounds like there are some teams who have at least mild interest.

 

[bleedingpurple]

Yeah, Ramos is definitely struggling this year, and that certainly dropped his trade value. I'm just not a fan of organizations selling low like this. As a fan, I'd rather see my team hold onto good prospects and try to let them work their way through it, as opposed to cutting them loose when they're still young and have nowhere to go but up (see: Brandon Morrow trade). .

I usually do too but this is a rarity for the Twins.. I think they are more willing to deal prospects because of new stadium and because they did not trade players like SLowey, Blackburn, and Durbin when they had the chance several years ago.. Twins would not trade slowey 3 years ago when offered talent like Soriano. Missed the boat.. Twins are deep.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

You're right though, Ramos went from being mentioned as a possible centerpiece in ANY big deal, to this.

Thats my point. He was never going to be a centerpiece to any big deal this year. That was all talk. No one was giving up a huge asset for Ramos. I do think you are right though on Ramos. They did sell low. I think Capps really sucks. Not a good deal for the Twins. They could have done better. Ramos might not be good enough to flip for a major piece, but he still has value.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I usually do too but this is a rarity for the Twins.. I think they are more willing to deal prospects because of new stadium and because they did not trade players like SLowey, Blackburn, and Durbin when they had the chance several years ago.. Twins would not trade slowey 3 years ago when offered talent like Soriano. Missed the boat.. Twins are deep.

Yeah, I know they needed a closer so I'm not surprised they traded for one. I'm just surprised Capps was all they could get for Ramos. But again, I don't follow the Twins real closely so maybe he's been overhyped and isn't going to be anything special in the bigs.

One other thing -- I've never agreed with the mindset that a FO should be willing to accept a lesser deal for a player, simply because they are deep at that player's position. Being deep at a position shouldn't change your outlook on a player's ability, or their trade value. If/when teams take lesser offers because they have a lot of talent at a particular position, they are doing their team and fanbase a huge disservice. I'm not saying the Twins did that here or that you advocate doing it, just noting that a lot of people seem to think it's ok to take a lesser offer when a team is deep at a position. I don't really agree with that.

 

[bleedingpurple]

One other thing -- I've never agreed with the mindset that a FO should be willing to accept a lesser deal for a player, simply because they are deep at that player's position. Being deep at a position shouldn't change your outlook on a player's ability, or their trade value. If/when teams take lesser offers because they have a lot of talent at a particular position, they are doing their team and fanbase a huge disservice. I'm not saying the Twins did that here or that you advocate doing it, just noting that a lot of people seem to think it's ok to take a lesser offer when a team is deep at a position. I don't really agree with that.

Yeah I usually don't agree with it but I do not think anyone was knocking down the Twin's door to get Ramos.. The Twins wanted a closer but I just do not know who was available off the top of my head.. From the sounds of it Capps was the only one available for the Ramos. I think the Twins were a little bit desperate and sold on the low but Nathan is injured and getting old and I think they want Capps to be the long term closer for years to come. If he becomes that then they may have got him cheap.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Yeah I usually don't agree with it but I do not think anyone was knocking down the Twin's door to get Ramos.. The Twins wanted a closer but I just do not know who was available off the top of my head.. From the sounds of it Capps was the only one available for the Ramos. I think the Twins were a little bit desperate and sold on the low but Nathan is injured and getting old and I think they want Capps to be the long term closer for years to come. If he becomes that then they may have got him cheap.

Yeah, I'm a bit perplexed with the whole Ramos situation to be honest. At the beginning of the year he was talked about as being a potential star. It seems hard to believe that 1/2 of a bad season in the minors would kill his trade value. But TU could be right... it could be that he was intentionally overhyped this whole time and none of the FOs around their league were biting. I have no idea. :shrug:

I agree with you about Capps. If he can turn into a long-term closer for the Twins, they most likely won't come off looking bad in this deal. If he ends up struggling, however, I think the Twins FO will take a lot of heat for this trade. Or if he ends up just being a rental this year, I think a lot of people will have problems with that, as well.

I do wonder if the Twins inquired about other closers and the asking price was too high? Guys like Soria, Soriano, Feliz, etc. are all much better options than Capps, IMO. I wonder if they "settled" for Capps, or if he was the guy they targeted all along?

 

[bleedingpurple]

KC would never trade to the Twins and they could get a ton more than Ramos.. Being a Twins fan I heard of Ramos before this year but never heard of him being a great prospect until he came for that little stint. Capps will definitely be here next year because they have an arbitration year with him..

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

KC would never trade to the Twins and they could get a ton more than Ramos.. Being a Twins fan I heard of Ramos before this year but never heard of him being a great prospect until he came for that little stint. Capps will definitely be here next year because they have an arbitration year with him..

My bad. You're right, I forgot about the arby year.

GL with your Twinkies. I'd much rather see them take the Central than the White Sox.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

KC has a sweet deal with Soria. It would take a LOT to get him.

As for Ramos, I would have loved to have traded Aardsma for him.