16 Illegals sue Arizona Rancher

[THE KOD]

16 illegals sue Arizona rancher
Claim violation of rights as they crossed his land
Jerry Seper (Contact)
Monday, February 9, 2009

An Arizona man who has waged a 10-year campaign to stop a flood of illegal immigrants from crossing his property is being sued by 16 Mexican nationals who accuse him of conspiring to violate their civil rights when he stopped them at gunpoint on his ranch on the U.S.-Mexico border.

Roger Barnett, 64, began rounding up illegal immigrants in 1998 and turning them over to the U.S. Border Patrol, he said, after they destroyed his property, killed his calves and broke into his home.

His Cross Rail Ranch near Douglas, Ariz., is known by federal and county law enforcement authorities as "the avenue of choice" for immigrants seeking to enter the United States illegally.

Trial continues Monday in the federal lawsuit, which seeks $32 million in actual and punitive damages for civil rights violations, the infliction of emotional distress and other crimes. Also named are Mr. Barnett's wife, Barbara, his brother, Donald, and Larry Dever, sheriff in Cochise County, Ariz., where the Barnetts live. The civil trial is expected to continue until Friday.

The lawsuit is based on a March 7, 2004, incident in a dry wash on the 22,000-acre ranch, when he approached a group of illegal immigrants while carrying a gun and accompanied by a large dog.

Attorneys for the immigrants - five women and 11 men who were trying to cross illegally into the United States - have accused Mr. Barnett of holding the group captive at gunpoint, threatening to turn his dog loose on them and saying he would shoot anyone who tried to escape.

The immigrants are represented at trial by the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF), which also charged that Sheriff Dever did nothing to prevent Mr. Barnett from holding their clients at "gunpoint, yelling obscenities at them and kicking one of the women."

In the lawsuit, MALDEF said Mr. Barnett approached the group as the immigrants moved through his property, and that he was carrying a pistol and threatening them in English and Spanish. At one point, it said, Mr. Barnett's dog barked at several of the women and he yelled at them in Spanish, "My dog is hungry and he's hungry for buttocks."

The lawsuit said he then called his wife and two Border Patrol agents arrived at the site. It also said Mr. Barnett acknowledged that he had turned over 12,000 illegal immigrants to the Border Patrol since 1998.

In March, U.S. District Judge John Roll rejected a motion by Mr. Barnett to have the charges dropped, ruling there was sufficient evidence to allow the matter to be presented to a jury. Mr. Barnett's attorney, David Hardy, had argued that illegal immigrants did not have the same rights as U.S. citizens.

Mr. Barnett told The Washington Times in a 2002 interview that he began rounding up illegal immigrants after they started to vandalize his property, northeast of Douglas along Arizona Highway 80. He said the immigrants tore up water pumps, killed calves, destroyed fences and gates, stole trucks and broke into his home.

Some of his cattle died from ingesting the plastic bottles left behind by the immigrants, he said, adding that he installed a faucet on an 8,000-gallon water tank so the immigrants would stop damaging the tank to get water.

Mr. Barnett said some of the ranch?s established immigrant trails were littered with trash 10 inches deep, including human waste, used toilet paper, soiled diapers, cigarette packs, clothes, backpacks, empty 1-gallon water bottles, chewing-gum wrappers and aluminum foil - which supposedly is used to pack the drugs the immigrant smugglers give their "clients" to keep them running.

He said he carried a pistol during his searches for the immigrants and had a rifle in his truck "for protection" against immigrant and drug smugglers, who often are armed.


ASSOCIATED PRESS DEFENDANT: Roger Barnett said he had turned over 12,000 illegal immigrants to the Border Patrol since 1998.

A former Cochise County sheriff?s deputy who later was successful in the towing and propane business, Mr. Barnett spent $30,000 on electronic sensors, which he has hidden along established trails on his ranch. He searches the ranch for illegal immigrants in a pickup truck, dressed in a green shirt and camouflage hat, with his handgun and rifle, high-powered binoculars and a walkie-talkie.

His sprawling ranch became an illegal-immigration highway when the Border Patrol diverted its attention to several border towns in an effort to take control of the established ports of entry. That effort moved the illegal immigrants to the remote areas of the border, including the Cross Rail Ranch.

"This is my land. I?m the victim here," Mr. Barnett said. "When someone?s home and loved ones are in jeopardy and the government seemingly can?t do anything about it, I feel justified in taking matters into my own hands. And I always watch my back."
..........................................................

wtf is this world coming to.

how can the fawkers even bring such a lawsuit and have it heard in a AMerican court.

son of a beeech

 

[THE KOD]

 

[THE KOD]

Fox thinks that the best way to save Mexico?s failing economy is to grab hold of the U.S. economy in what his administration calls ?very common objectives.? Fox?s plan offers very little advantage to the United States.

Economically speaking, the plan offers no hope to solving Mexico?s institutional ills. The reason is that Mexico?s economic problems are created by the fact that Mexico is a socialist country that denies private ownership of property to its people, and taxes businesses to pay for just about any confiscation scheme its corrupt government can dream up.

It?s the same old story. Socialism can?t survive without a free market to prop it up. Mexico has sunk to the depths of socialist depravity and now desperately needs the U.S. economy to save it. Apparently, Fox has never considered fixing his own economy. Like all drowning despots, his only plan of action is to cling to our economy until it too starts to sink under the weight of a hoard of illegal aliens. These law breakers, with Fox?s help and encouragement, are rushing across the border for American goodies.

In an orchestrated plan to actually help Mexican citizens illegally cross our nation?s sovereign border, the Mexican government is creating tools to instruct them, in detail, how to do it. Once they are in our nation, Fox?s government then provides identification for the illegals to help them obtain American documentation and services.

Specifically, the Mexican government is distributing to its citizens a colorful new comic book with advice on how to cross the border. The 32-page book, ?The Guide for the Mexican Migrant,? was published in December by Mexico?s Foreign Ministry. Using simple language and colorful drawings, the book offers safety information for illegal border crossings. The book also provides a primer on their legal rights once they get across, and gives advice on living unobtrusively in the United States.


The drawings provide dramatic depictions of undocumented immigrants wading through a river, running from the U.S. Border Patrol, and crouching near a hole in a border fence. On other pages, they hike through a desert and are caught by Border Patrol agents. The book gives no tips on how to obtain a U.S. visa, yet it offers border crossing safety tips such as, when crossing rivers, ?Thick clothing increases your weight when wet, and this makes it difficult to swim or float.?

?This is more than just a wink and a nod,? says Rick Ottman, Western field director for the Federation for American Immigration Reform. ?This is so transparent, this is the Mexican government trying to protect its most valuable export, which is illegal migrants.? Ottman is referring to the fact that illegal Mexicans are taking billions of dollars out of the U.S. economy each year and sending the money back to Mexico. In fact, illegal immigration is one of Mexico?s biggest growth industries.

The comic book is being distributed as a free supplement to El Libro Vaquero, a popular cowboy comic book, in five Mexican states (Zacatecas, Michoacan, Puebla, Oaxaca, and Jalisco) that send the majority of illegals to the United States. The government plans to print 1.5 million copies.

Once over the border and safely tucked away in a U.S. city, the illegals need some form of identification to help them get jobs and government services. Again, the Mexican government is providing the answer for its ?citizens.?

The Mexican government has issued more than 800,000 slick, pocket-sized identification cards to both legal and illegal immigrants. Of course, those immigrants who have come to this nation using legal means have no need for the cards. So the cards really are specifically designed to help illegals gain a foothold in this country. Called ?matricula consular? cards, they are being distributed across the United States through the Embassy of Mexico and its 45 consulates in the U.S.

The cards list the holder?s birth date, place of birth, and U.S. address. The Mexican government is openly lobbying U.S. cities, police forces, local government agencies, and banks to accept the cards as official identification.


Far from science-fiction, the threat of illegal immigration is very real

Ironically, today, legal U.S. citizens are about to be tied to a national ID card, controlled by massive data banks which document every aspect of our lives, including job history, tax history, medical records, and bank accounts. We?re told such intrusion into our private lives is necessary to protect the nation from terrorists. Within the next 18 months, the national ID cards will be in place, and without them, American citizens won?t be able to get on an airplane, open a bank account, buy a gun, get married, or function in any way in American society.

With the blessing of the Bush Administration, the Mexican government?s matricula cards are now accepted as a form of ID at 74 of the nation?s 9,000 banks. Illegal aliens, who have already broken our immigration laws by entering the country illegally can cash checks and open bank accounts. Yet there is nothing to assure that the cards carry accurate information and there is no means to check the background of the person holding the card. In practice, the consular cards are allowing illegal Mexicans to bypass the growing web of government control now being imposed on American citizens.

True to its promises to the Fox government, the Bush Administration has been silent, refusing to act on these unprecedented actions by a foreign government which are little more than a planned invasion of our nation. In truth, Fox?s policy is leading to little more than colonization of the United States by Mexico. Americans pay the bills, clean up the messes, and watch as our standard of living diminishes while illegals swamp hospitals, schools, and communities.

Fortunately, not all of our U.S. Representatives are turning a blind eye to this invasion. The President?s guest worker proposal is meeting staunch resistance from conservative Republicans in Congress. Representative Charlie Norwood (R-GA) has called on the President to drop the plan, saying it would be ?detrimental to our national and economic security.? Norwood has introduced the ?Clear Law Enforcement for Alien Removal Act,? (CLEAR) which would force the government to enforce immigration laws and round up illegal aliens.

Most recently, Congressman Scott Garrett (R-NJ) introduced ?The Financial Customer Identification Verification Improvement Act? (H.R. 815). Though a mouthful of a name, H.R. 815 will ?prohibit the use of identification cards issued by foreign governments, including matricula consular cards for purposes of verifying the identity of a person who opens an account at a financial institution,? says Rep. Garrett. His bill will help foil the Mexican government?s outrageous efforts to undermine the sovereignty and independence of the United States.

The Bush Administration has tried to make the illegal immigration issue sound like an impossible problem to stop. The guest worker scheme is sold as a Band-Aid as we throw our hands in the air to surrender. Such bunk is nothing more than snake oil to cover very bad policy.

The fact is illegal immigration would be fairly easy to fix. First, allow the U.S. Border Patrol to do its job, like it tried to do in Los Angeles a few months back when officers began to round up illegals in the Hispanic neighborhoods. They were stopped by the ?suits? in Washington.

Second, stop providing U.S. taxpayer funded programs like hospital care, access to public schools, and welfare handouts. Plans to provide Social Security payments to illegals should never be considered. Stop granting automatic citizenship to babies born to illegal immigrants (known as ?anchor babies?). This would stop the practice of running across the border just in time to give birth.

Finally, pass H.R. 815 and stop this outrageous attempt by the Mexican government to claim United States territory as their private annex. The Mexican government has no right to meddle in U.S. policy.

Politicians can puff up and spew rhetoric about guest worker programs and filling jobs Americans don?t want, but the truth is our nation is being flooded by people who don?t care about our heritage or culture. They have no allegiance to this country, and in fact, remain loyal to their home country. They choose not to learn our language and they ignore our laws. Our taxpayer-funded services are diminishing, as hospitals and schools are facing overcrowding and bankruptcy. This is no foundation on which to build our nation?s future.

Stop the flow of goods and services to illegal aliens, round up those already here, and strengthen the border. This will solve the problem. It?s really pretty simple. Passing H.R. 815 to stop acceptance of the matricula consular cards is a good start.
......................................................

:scared

 

[gardenweasel]

if the same d.a. that prosecuted ramos and campeon is involved,this rancher is screwed,blewed and tattooed...

 

[pel7]

this is unbelievable,
do illegal aliens have civil rights:shrug:
I say deport them all and the lawyer representing them

 

[buddy]

Rumor has it they're being represented by Eduardo Haskellero, "The Chicano Siciliano".

 

[StevieD]

Rumor has it they're being represented by Eduardo Haskellero, "The Chicano Siciliano".

:142smilie :142smilie :142smilie

 

[THE KOD]

Rumor has it they're being represented by Eduardo Haskellero, "The Chicano Siciliano".

..........................................................

Eddie may not see that buddy , but that was a good one

 

[THE KOD]

this is unbelievable,
do illegal aliens have civil rights:shrug:
I say deport them all and the lawyer representing them

...................................................................

 

[THE KOD]

if you see the rancher, tell him
besso mi quello amiego

 

[Lookn4help]

Since when do ILLEGALS have rightd under our Law (I know they do get some recogned but more to the point is WHY) Since they were on his land illegally, shoot them, hire some security and they can shoot them. In time maybe Mexico will let them know this is not a good crossing point in their next book release. JMHO

 

[THE KOD]

EST, Tue February 10, 2009
Bad economy forcing immigrants to reconsider U.S.Story Highlights
"If I have to suffer, it's better to suffer in Guatemala with my family," immigrant says

Bleak economic situation in U.S. forces immigrants to reconsider staying

Director of day laborer site says workers are "completely desperate"

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Pedro Pablo slowly folds up his American flag blanket and stuffs it in his duffel bag. With it goes his American dream.


Pedro Pablo, an illegal immigrant from Guatemala, headed home recently due to the bad U.S. economy.

1 of 3 "I left my family and lost four years with them. I will ask them to forgive me," he said.

Pablo is an illegal immigrant from Guatemala who came to the United States to support his wife and five sons back home. When he arrived, construction jobs were plentiful. Over the last year, he says, he's worked three days.

He recently boarded a bus with a one-way ticket home, paid for by the Guatemalan consulate in Los Angeles. "I thought I could get ahead here. I regret coming." Watch day laborers head home ?

Across the United States, tens of thousands of immigrants -- those here legally and illegally -- are facing a similar dilemma: Do they continue to search for jobs in a struggling U.S. economy or return home to an even bleaker economic situation?

"Things are very dire, and I think it's impacting those at the very bottom even more so," said Abel Valenzuela, a professor at the University of California-Los Angeles who has spent years studying day laborers.

"Day laborers are being really, really impacted."

America's economic boom during the 1990s and 2000s created a high demand of day workers needed for anything from building homes to picking fruit and from working at slaughterhouses to working as nannies. Many of those jobs have since evaporated, resulting in more and more people -- immigrants and native-born Americans -- flooding day labor job sites and standing on street corners in search of any type of work they can get.

"All of them are competing for the few jobs being dispatched," Valenzuela said.

Immigration experts say it's not yet clear how large an immigration exodus of Latin Americans is under way. But they say anecdotal evidence suggests day laborers, like Pablo, have begun packing -- a result of the economy and tougher immigration enforcement.

For some immigrants, the experts say, the reasons for toughing out the U.S. economic depression outweigh the reasons for leaving, including:
? One or two days of work per month at $8 an hour is often better than what they can make back home;
? Tougher border enforcement along the U.S.-Mexico border has made it harder for them to return once they leave;
? Smuggling costs to get into the United States from Mexico have skyrocketed from about $1,500 three years ago to about $6,000 today.

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"I'm not convinced it's a tidal wave of exodus," Valenzuela said. "There really is a fear mentality [of leaving], and as a result many immigrants are buckling down -- that is they're hiding or living in the shadows of our law. So they think more than twice about whether or not they want to go back to their country of origin, because they know very well that it's going to be extremely difficult and very expensive to come back if they want to pursue their dream."

Steven Camarota with the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington-based think tank that seeks a "pro-immigrant, low-immigration vision," said Census data indicate that more than 1 million illegal immigrants left last year, a departure that began even before the nation's economy took a turn for the worse toward the end of the year.

He said better border enforcement and workplace raids on illegal immigrants "let people know that the immigration law was back in business."

With illegal immigrants returning home, he said, "It's certainly good for two groups: taxpayers and less educated natives."

The lack of work in the United States has had a trickle down effect in the immigrants' countries of origin. The money sent back home by Mexican immigrants in 2008 fell for the first time since record-keeping began 13 years ago. Watch lack of remittances has "real large economic implications" ?

The remittances dipped 3.6 percent, from $26 billion in 2007 to $25 billion, according to Mexico's central bank. Remittances are Mexico's second-largest source of foreign income, behind only oil. Other Latin American countries also have seen money sent from immigrants in the United States slow.

Erik Camayd-Freixas, a professor at Florida International University who has served as an immigration court interpreter for two decades, recently traveled to Guatemala, where he saw the effects of less money being sent home by immigrants.

"Everybody was talking about it," he said. "The local economies are severely impacted and the unemployment is rampant."

He said scores of people deported from the United States are trying to find any type of job in Guatemala. "They've been there six months and they have no work," Camayd-Freixas said.

That's why he said he believes most immigrants already in the United States are willing to stick it out, despite the hard-scrabble times in America.

"The truth of the matter is, despite our 7.6 percent unemployment, most Americans are not going to do those jobs that migrant workers do," Camayd-Freixas said. "They're certainly not going to pick tomatoes, grapefruits and oranges."

Camarota disagrees. He said Americans most likely to compete for day labor jobs -- those with a high school degree or less -- are currently unemployed at an astounding rate of about 15 percent. "It's very hard to argue that we're desperately short of unskilled workers," he said.

Jeronimo Salguero is the director of a day labor site in Los Angeles. He says employment for day laborers has dipped 75 percent over the last year. He said on any given day three years ago, his center found work for nearly 50 percent of the people who gathered there. Now, that figure is about 5 percent of the 250 men who huddle daily searching for work.

A study issued in January by the Pew Hispanic Center found that nearly three of four Latinos surveyed said their personal finances were in fair or poor shape, compared to 61 percent of the general U.S. population. Among Hispanic immigrants who sent remittances home over the last two years, about 70 percent said they sent less in 2008 than in 2007.

Salguero said to help offset the hard times, immigrants are crowding about 20 men into apartments. He's now working with the Guatemalan consulate. Once a week, he said, the consulate purchases a bus ticket for an immigrant to go home.

"They are completely desperate," he said. "Each day, I have workers coming into the office and say, 'Geronimo, help me. I want to go back to my country.' "


Pablo was one of those men. He had lived in a one-bedroom apartment with seven other men. His "bedroom" was a corner of the living room where he kept his blanket, duffel bag and picture of his family.

"I can't make it here," he said. "If I have to suffer, it's better to suffer in Guatemala with my family."
...............................................................

this could have been a clandestine Bush Cheney plot to ruin the American economy to solve the illigal immigration problem. No jobs no illigals.

that sounds about how they would rationalize it.

 

[Padre]

Look4ehlp, great approach man, that is exactly what we need to do.

Let some conceited, over-privledged American take humane law into his hands.

I am sick of all the people coming down on people who come here to work, you act as if they are here to create crime, believe me, these people hide in the shadows just to prevent them from getting caught and sent home. It costs them way too much to get back here, for some , it is 2 months salary.

you see they go home for christmas and visit family, and stay for a month and a half. then pay to have someone "escort" them back into the US. so you see nearly 3 to 4 months out of the year is income deficient.

ohh, yea i know they really drain the system,and not pay taxes, look they do and in some cases a hell of alot more than the avg. American. you see they do not file tax returns , they do not have the benefit of having write off, you, the precious home that you live in, the beautiful wife you have, the 2.6 children you have. . and more important the Social Security tax that they pay into and will never, i mean never see any of it. so that the lazy fucking , im disabled and cannot work , fuck heads can bleed the system. Because , u got it, they also pay into workman's comp, or least their employer needs to pay it, and you guessed it, when they do not get work, they go home. but Joe the plumber sits on his ass for 6 to 9 months collecting a nice check.( but no, the illegal just heads back out onto his street corner flagging down work trucks to get a job.)to me this is what built America in the first place, stop sticking your hand out for a check and stick it out to flag down more work.

So screw all the people that argue, that they are here to work the system, the ones having kids here without insurance, or all the alledged crime they commit. trust me, if you ran the numbers, they are putting probably 10 dollars into the system for every 1 "they" take out.

ohh and the unemployment benefits that they have paid into, my god, you could only imagine right know , all the privledges that "we" Americans have as we stand in those unemployment lines collecting from a system that a majority have paid into "illegally".

This has turned into a entirely new form of racism, you see its not about color anymore, it is what you are now, you see most say they are mexican , and we are American, i only see that from a standpoint of help, who do you turn to when you need something, your govt. that is it, from a humanitarian standpoint, we are all just humans, thats right a part of humanity, on this entire planet, I think Lennon said it best , no borders, no religion, it is easy to do , just Imagine.

you see as long as people continue to hypenate their nationality, there will be racism, or when you determine if some one is "illegal" or legal to be somewhere, then we will have racism.

there is only one thing every single person on this planet can be certain of, and this is it. You are going to die. (pay taxes, i guess you do not even need to do that anymore)No Govt, no religion, or anything else is going to change that, so why support something that isnt going to help you.

as Rodney King said , can we all just get along. Illegals are not here to harm anyone, terrorists yes, illegals,no, you see Ellis Island is closed. and the sunshined stain of an American dream is not that easlily obtainable as it once was.

you see your great grandfathers, stood in a line to become an American, and get all the stuff you take for granted, and was omitted into the US, in well about a day, then off to work they went.

it does not work that way today, well you know govt. employees, the laziest of them all, someone gets in line today to come to the US, fuck it could take upwards to 2 years, fuck that , i would swim and jump fences,also. So do not even, for the slightest second come down on the illegals here.

As for the law suit, that is one of your very own proud Americans bringing on that lawsuit, lawyers have turned this country upside fucking down , them and the godamn bankers. Mexicans wouldnt even know the law enough to even give a shit.

hell i could on for another month taking about this, but i need to go. and check on my "landscaper" to see if "todos estan bien."

 

[Woodson]

Too be fair, I have Padre on ignore...

EDIT:

I read it and can see your points as well Padre although I may not agree with them.

 

[gardenweasel]

Rumor has it they're being represented by Eduardo Haskellero, "The Chicano Siciliano".

:rimshot :lol:

padre.........this deserves a response and a refutation....but i`ll wait until it gets sent to political....i understand it`s probably a personal issue for you...so i understand where you`re coming from...

one thing i`ll mention is that there are reports that mexico is a country that is one the verge of total governmental and economic collapse....

google it...gangs...economy...corruption..you name it..

if this happens,we`ll need towers with machine gun turrets along the border....

 

[gardenweasel]

padre..i think i`ll pass...i don`t want any more people in here getting pissed off at me....

we aren`t gonna change each other`s mind....:toast:

 

[Padre]

...................................................................

Maybe this is what got me all fired up in the first place. This is over the top, out of bounds. But should be a perfect example to all that think that they need to go back.

You see these people risk more than any other person on this planet for a better life, they risk their lives every time they cross. When was last thing you sacrificed, other than a luncheon or a round of golf, for something that meant more to you than living. Absolutely nothing.

And please do not bring up the military and the risks and sacrifices they make "daily" for out freedoms and liberties, you see while you sit there reading this , someone is dying wearing a US flag on their shoulder, for what, i have said this a thousand times, our freedoms and liberties were fought for and defended a long ass time ago.Stop electing shit heads into office that put young kids at risk like this.

Yes i will fight for the US, because i have always said this as well, i do not want to send anyone off to fight for something that i am not willing to fight for myself, even if i am 90 years old, if i feel that it is a battle , for the right reasons , i will take up arms, and not from my rocking chair, with my 4 bedroom home, yelling at the TV, telling everyone how fucked up it is.

but lets get back on topic. the "illegals" , it is not a personal thing to me. If anything I have more justification to be angry at the situation than anyone else. you see back in 88 i started working construction to put me through college, more importantly i knew that having a "skilled" trade behind me , that i would always have something to fall back on, and i did need that crotch, ohh so many times.

You see , i live in So Cal. and back in 88 the money i made in construction was unbelievable for a kid my age, and yes it put me through school, but as the economy always went up and down , i would find myself in between jobs. So i would find myself back out on the construction job sites. but this time getting paid much less. I mean a lot less.

the main difference, the "illegal", thats right , but in 88 i could not find a "Mexican" in my trade, only skilled labor, it was an art, a trade that I, and others, took a lot of pride in, but today, I can not find a "white" man within a 1,000 miles of a job site now. And if you are so lucky to do so , in is hiding in the Contractor's trailer.

you see the cheap labor drove the wages down so far, so that the "white" man could under bid the other, all about getting by on the cheap.(But thats a whole other topic)

So if anyone, and i mean everyone on this board can give me a better example on how,PERSONALLY, they are affected by the "illegal" i am all ears.

But did i whine , did I cry, or better yet did i run down to the unemployment office and get a check, because i was unhappy about my wage and how the "illegal" is ruining it for me, and I was by no means going to work for that wage. NO, i sucked it up and went to work right beside them. An you know what, learned a great deal about them and their culture. In fact actually enjoyed seeing my fellow man working hard and providing for his family.

But i would go so far to guess 98% of you would not do the same, you would bitch , scream, and be in line for your unemployment benefits.

U see it is not the "illegals" ruining the country, its the "American" that is exploiting the cheap labor. And getting richer by the day. Bitch at them, send them the fuck back to where it is they are from.

I would also go so far to say, that when you go out and enjoy your KFC, I know that it was the "illegal" that plucked the feathers at the Foster Farm Poultry farm, and next time you stay at a fine 5 star hotel, the room and bed you sleep in, was cleaned by the "illegal", and the meal u ate that night , the dishes were cleaned by an "illegal", hell i could go on forever. but i think that you get the point. Because as i said before , the "American" would much more prefer , not working and collecting a check(that is 'owed" to them) than to do any of these listed jobs.

I bet 98% of you, hell I would go so far to say 99.5% of you are not even related to anyone that does these respective jobs. You know what fuck that, I dont think you know anyone that even does these jobs, fuck relation.

So if you have such a problem with the "illegal" , boycott their product, which basically says , dont leave your house, and dont eat. You are allowed to go to the mailbaox and collect your benefit check, because that is you God given American right.

 

[saint]

So if anyone, and i mean everyone on this board can give me a better example on how,PERSONALLY, they are affected by the "illegal" i am all ears.

.

I am PERSONALLY affected by illegals by their unbelievable utilization of our healthcare system, most of which is funded by MY tax dollars, not theirs, since as illegals they provide absolutely no funding into the very programs they are taking advantage of for healthcare. This in turn diverts tax dollars away from other things our country is in need. For example, our highways and bridges are in dire need of repair. Tax money being used by illegals for healthcare in the emergency room is being used while it could be going towards things much needed by people who actually pay taxes as citizens. So instead of a smooth ride to work I've got hemorrhoids from all the friggen potholes because juanita's 15 kids each go to the ER to get breathing treatments for asthma weekly.

The end.

 

[Padre]

Ok maybe this should be posted to a new topis, for I am postive it will bring on a different opinion about "us vs' them" .

watch this clip, this is from another forum, and it has brought on a lot of debate, mainly about innocence or guilt, and the how-s and why-s.

http://www.10news.com/video/18662511/index.html

You see, we Americans commit does as much violent crime as the so called "illegal" in other countries.

Now this is from a local news station in San Diego, but I have also seen the news from Tijuana, Mexico. they do not sugar coat the news, they feel as though the avg. person can stomach the truth. and show all the graphic stuff.

but anyway the Mexican authorities are handling this with white velvet gloves, if this were an Mexican in the states that pulled this shit, all of you would be out on the streets, with your big ass Flags, and signs, with "Send them all Back" fucking dirty Mexicans. And the infamous " we should invade Mexico and take all their land" we would do so much better with it than them.LOL

Got to go, the "landscaper" bought tamales that his wife hand made, yum yum delicious. vamos a ver.

 

[Padre]

I am PERSONALLY affected by illegals by there unbelievable utilization of our healthcare system, most of which is funded by MY tax dollars, not theirs, since as illegals they provide absolutely no funding into the very programs they are taking advantage of for healthcare.

The end.

dude u obviously do not get the economics of it, they pay taxes, and never file a return like most people that do, and get a refund. u see they pay billions into "your" tax system that helps pay "your" health care , so yes when they go in a get taken care of on "your" dime, lets just say they are collecting a little of the return money they will never see, and the ol time big one, when you collect your Social Security(hell we all may not get to do that,thanks to fucking Bush spending it all)just know this they "the illegal" has been paying into that for ages, and will never be eligible to withdraw one single cent. how's them apples.