# 2000 Soldier now Dead

[Pujo21]

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MOTHER of another dead vowed to chain herself to Bush's fence upon this announcement...a few moments ago. The soildier died in IRAQ.


BUSH KNEW/CHENEY FLEW
TURK 182

 

[smurphy]

Don't worry Pujo, Manson will be around shortly to explain how all of this is actually the fault of that mother. I'm sure she has some grand selfish political agenda, rather than honest disillusioned protest.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

I thinkyou forgot to name the mother----

Reuters

Oct 23, 2005 ? By Deborah Zabarenko

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Cindy Sheehan, the military mother who made her son's death in Iraq a rallying point for the anti-war movement, plans to tie herself to the White House fence to protest the milestone of 2,000 U.S. military deaths in Iraq.

"I'm going to go to Washington, D.C. and I'm going to give a speech at the White House, and after I do, I'm going to tie myself to the fence and refuse to leave until they agree to bring our troops home," Sheehan said in a telephone interview last week as the milestone approached.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

As a vet I am quite proud of the accomplishments of those 2000.
In 2 1/2 years year they defeated rouge regime that had killed 100,000,liberating millions from brutal dictator--set up voting democracy that now has ratified constituion and will most probably change complextion of entire middle east.

I salute them!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" Edmund Burke

 

[smurphy]

We're all proud of the soldiers DTB. Many of us just aren't proud of their commander in chief. We demand more competence from the person who puts them in the line of fire.

Eliminating the "rogue regime" was obviously the easy part. That's not at all where the majority of the 2,000 have died. It's the lack of a plan, the faulty intel to begin with, and the fact that most believe we are in fact less secure now than before that have people disillusioned to the point of protest.

We all salute the troops. The 2 of us have discussed Vietnam numerous times now. I salute you, as I salute my father for his service. I'm extremely critical of the administration however. I do not believe they act in the interest of our security now - as I do not believe they did in Vietnam. It's easy to take advantage of servicemen and women ...They are there to serve and they love the opportunity to serve. That's why I feel any administration has a monumental responsibility of not taking that for granted - Our human miliitary resource is not a commodity to be wasted on every "rogue regime" or tyrant.

 

[Palehose]

As a vet I am quite proud of the accomplishments of those 2000.
In 2 1/2 years year they defeated rouge regime that had killed 100,000,liberating millions from brutal dictator--set up voting democracy that now has ratified constituion and will most probably change complextion of entire middle east.

I salute them!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" Edmund Burke

Amen DTB ! Thanks for Serving ! Thankgod for them and just like My Uncles that died in Normandy I will Never forget them ! In fact My Uncles died to give france back what they didnt have the will to defend ..dumbass Liberals should have reaped what they sowed ! This is a much more hornorable task GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS !! :clap:

 

[smurphy]

So Palehose - when Iraq eventually turns against us and show a total lack of greatfulness for our efforts despite what we've done to "liberate" them - will you have the same attitude about that as our part in liberating France?

There is certainly no guarantee that they will remain an ally. The very nature of their religion says they will evenually be the enemy - no matter how democratic the process is along the way.

Will you say it wasn't worth it when that happens?

 

[Palehose]

Well 1st thing your not acknowledging here is the fact that France is hardly our friend ...never really has been except when they really need us ...And if you dont want to believe me you best take a good look at the Food for Oil scandle and when your done with that please by all means explain how they are our Allies and than be prepared to answer why the only M1A1 Abrams taken out in this war was a modified French Missle sent to Iraq in 2002 ...people are so stupid

Once you get past our war of independance only a compleate moron out of touch with reality and history would consider France a true allie espeacially in the last 5 years ...I can gaurentee Iraq will be no less of an allie than France is :mj07: Now that was funny as hell ............This one goes home for a Laugh Tonight !!! :mj07: :mj07: I have to go wipe my tears now thats the funniest thing I have heard all month !!!! :mj07: :mj07: :142lmao: Your further from reality than I could have possibly ever Imagined :mj07: :mj07: Hello Mcfly ??????

 

[smurphy]

Are you suggesting that every nation we help defend become unquestioning puppets forever?. France is France - so what. It's not exactly fair or reasonable for this generation of Americans to continue to cash in on what a previous generation of Americans did so unselfishly 60 years ago. And it sort of defeats the purpose of what we did in WW2 to expect those allies to simply fall in line without question. They are there own free-thinking society. That is as far as our reward can go. If you expect them to thank us on a daily basis forever and do whatever we want all the time then you will be dissappointed for your entire life.

Regarding UN scandal - hell yeah - I completely agree. It looks like very bad corruption. So let's keep on that and do what can to punish the individuals responsible - whatver nationalities they are. I'm not gonna lay that blame on an entire nation though. That's narrow-minded and unrealistic.

Regarding Iraq as an ally vs France as an ally ....laugh all you want now. Check back in 10 years. Let's see how things stand. Check back in 60 years for a fair WW2 comparison. That would be very interesting at that point.

 

[Palehose]

What ****ing part of France was bribed by Saddam to vote no in the security council don't you get ? What ****ing part of France sold missiles that Killed our troops and took out are Tanks don't you ****ing understand imbecile !!!!!!!!!!! If they didnt do those things you cant say it because their our puppet the straight up fact is France would love to see our nation collapse with our dominant economy along with it only a complete Moron would believe otherwise ! France is France and our Enemy ...Britain is Britain and one of the few Superpowers we can depend on to help us survive and die by our side when the going gets tough ! Idiot !!!! good grief man pull your head from your ass !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[smurphy]

Well....you replaced laughing icons with a barage of insults. I guess that's progress.

We have had our own illegal arms deals from within this country you know. It doesn't mean we are evil. We supplied Saddam with the very gas he used on Iranians in the early 80's. Does that make us evil and our own enemy?

You must have some perspective on this subject. Of course there are corrupt INDIVIDUALS in France - as anywhere else. As a nation however - they still represent Western ideals - they are still ultimately an important trading partner.

Playing them up as a menacing enemy is way overblown. Too much O'Reilly and not enough history, geography, and economics. I know you WANT there to be great enemies - it helps provide easy answer to tough issues - but please - keep some perspective and and open mind. There is a lot more common ground between the 2 nations than there is conflict.

 

[Master Capper]

As a vet I am quite proud of the accomplishments of those 2000.
In 2 1/2 years year they defeated rouge regime that had killed 100,000,liberating millions from brutal dictator--set up voting democracy that now has ratified constituion and will most probably change complextion of entire middle east.

I salute them!


I salute them also, but it's a shame that these men and women were betrayed by their own government not only on false information but more importantly they were sent into bettle by the administration with no game plan. How many of those lost would still be around today if our administration had actually had a plan in place?

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

I understand Yours and Smurphs point of view in the fact that you think war was unjust and thus deaths were unjust and your opinion on that matter carrys same weight as those that disagree.

I can guarantee you one thing (excluding some of the guard and reserves) most of our military would prefer wager war against ANY enemy than be sitting ducks in embassy's--boats--and taking a lick like they did in Somloia and run.
---and since we are on issue of # of deaths it might serve you well to know we had 279 military die " in days" in embassy bombing Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya (225)--Khobar Towers-(19)-the Cole (17) and Somolia (18)---only to have commander and chief look the other way.

I think many vets spoke the day Bill visted the wall on memorial day only to leave in mid speech when the vets bared their bottoms.

I think a fact that you would find from most soilders there is they think a lot more about whether it is "just war" or not before they go.
I sure didn't think we had any business in Nam when I left but once there my mission for being there was to protect the South from being slaugtered by the North and get myself and companions home safely in the process.In the WW's there were defined enemies and allies. My father came back with aninousityfor Japenese in general--V.N. and this war is different in the fact that it is impossible to visually tell friend from foe. Many times the bond with the friends will be stronger than the hate for enemy.I know when I returned I had a lot more respect and sympathy for Vietnamese than before I left.

 

[djv]

The long picture looks bad. Does anyone think Iraq survives with out 40/50 K of our troops left there. Or will new government ask us to leave and return to good old days. If anyone thinks these a holes won't turn on us faster then France. Boy are they dead wrong.

 

[smurphy]

I can guarantee you one thing (excluding some of the guard and reserves) most of our military would prefer wager war against ANY enemy than be sitting ducks in embassy's--boats--and taking a lick like they did in Somloia and run.
---and since we are on issue of # of deaths it might serve you well to know we had 279 military die " in days" in embassy bombing Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya (225)--Khobar Towers-(19)-the Cole (17) and Somolia (18)---only to have commander and chief look the other way.

Unfortunately, more than ever - troops are still 'sitting ducks' - prey to radside bombs, snipers, and suicide attacks. Not a lot that even the most prepared soldier can do in that situation.

Regarding Clinton "looking the other way" - I don't think that's fair. Are you suggesting we should have gone to war with Tanzania, Kenya, Somalia, and Yemen because we were hit by terror attacks there?

ANd on the Cole attack - that happened 3 months before Bush took office. What did Bush do between February and September of 2001 in retaliation or response to the USS Cole attack? He had more time than Clinton to deal with that matter.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

True Smurphy Bill did not have time on Cole--

on

Regarding Clinton "looking the other way" - I don't think that's fair. Are you suggesting we should have gone to war with Tanzania, Kenya, Somalia, and Yemen because we were hit by terror attacks there?

I certainly don't think war was answer but show of force would have been ample--and if Somolia was any indication of his "show of force" better off he didn't.
I think he would have went the negotiation route. If we learned any lesson its some people need force. We negotiated for years with no progress and now have seen Saudi's Pakistan Yemin lybia ect do complte turn arounds.While terrorists were operating at will all over the place prior to afgan and iraq I can't think of one place they are operating openly now. --and the biggie it forced them to show there true colors in targeting civilians of their own faith. Not only have they lost protection of countries but of many of the population.

 

[smurphy]

Well, they did bomb that aspirin factory and I believe took a shot at an Al Quaida training ground in Afghanistan (don't remember exactly the situation there). I would have had no problem with bombing more things. Sending troops doesn't seem wise unless we are serious and prepared to finish the job - however big that may be.

I'd like to share your belief that the terrorists are now just concentrated in Iraq and Afghanistan. I just don't see how that can be true though. If anything, soft targets elsewhere appear to be hit more than before (Madrid, London, etc). A lot of the old terror leadership has been killed, captured, or dispersed - but there has got to me more overall volume and recruits than ever before. There are probably leaders and cells that have emerged since Iraq that we currently have no clue about. We are as much or more of a target than ever. I'd like to believe that Iraq occupation achieves this goal of "bringing the fight to them". But my logic says that's only an illusion. The net result is that there are just more places of conflict now.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

I agree Smurph--everyone is soft targets to bombers. There is distinct possibilty to my thinking that if they lose hold in the middle east per above--they could concentrate more on soft targets elsewhere including here.

The problem lies in there is no way diswade them from doing so. It is not like they have country of their own that we could counter with retaliation.

 

[Palehose]

Well....you replaced laughing icons with a barage of insults. I guess that's progress.

We have had our own illegal arms deals from within this country you know. It doesn't mean we are evil. We supplied Saddam with the very gas he used on Iranians in the early 80's. Does that make us evil and our own enemy?

You must have some perspective on this subject. Of course there are corrupt INDIVIDUALS in France - as anywhere else. As a nation however - they still represent Western ideals - they are still ultimately an important trading partner.

Playing them up as a menacing enemy is way overblown. Too much O'Reilly and not enough history, geography, and economics. I know you WANT there to be great enemies - it helps provide easy answer to tough issues - but please - keep some perspective and and open mind. There is a lot more common ground between the 2 nations than there is conflict.

By all means please enlighten me on The French History of helping America :mj07: :mj07:

I will them The 3rd Crusade before we existed and I give them a little Credit for helping us with Independance but ....be sure you know that was for themselves not us . You take it from here ?? :mj07: :mj07:

Nam ???? :mj07:

The UN :mj07:

The EU :mj07:

Go for it am waiting :mj07:

 

[smurphy]

You simply don't read the words written by others. Where do I use the word "help" or imply anything about the French helping America? My statement is that they are not our enemy - despite the spin and rhetoric from your heros. It's nothing more than an overblown target that distracts us from real issues.