2002 World Cup soccer thread

Anders

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With a little over a month and a half to the start of the World Cup, it's time to kick this thread into some solid action.

What I'd love to see happen is a host of us Madjackers contribute some real solid 'capping info that help us all win over the month-long tournament. Instead of just posting plays, let's try and collate as much useful info as we can directly related towards BETTING AND WINNING.

Most of us who come in here will know many of the players of the elite sides. So let's see what we can find out about the lesser lights - who will inevitably provide us with the value bets. And let's look at past events - US codes are full of stats on trends that can assist 'capping. Have such avenues been fully explored at tournaments like the World Cup? I'd like to wager that they haven't! :D

There will be plenty of action to be had - let's get on the smart, winning side.

I'll throw up a few thoughts and ideas to kick off things and want as much feedback as possible.

Futures:

Outright winner - Let's face it; an underdog doesn't win the World Cup. There will be no equivalent of the Patriots winning the final in Japan. That doesn't mean you won't get good odds on the winner - at least two DD sides have appeal to me as a possible play (can you guess who?). But I don't believe there's much point in looking outside the top 8 prices - someone may like to convince me otherwise. Much more on this market to follow...

Golden Boot - I had Centrebet's odds land on my desk at work this arvo and even given a cursory glance, two plays leapt out at me here - Thierry Henry (France) 9-1 and Michael Owen (England) 14-1.
Henry has proved in the English premier league in recent seasons his pedigree as a goal thief, and backed that up at Euro 2000. His price is nice for a favourite even allowing for a very open field. The winner usually comes from a team that goes a long way in the tournament - more games, more chances to score - and the defending champs certainly pass that test. One small drawback may be the possibility that Henry may be used often out wide instead of the central striker role he was converted to by Arsene Wenger at the mighty Gunners :cool:
Owen has his downside - injury question-marks and the possibility that England may not make it through a very tough group. But look who's priced at 17-1 - his likely striking partner Emile Heskey!! Try and tell me that there's only $3 difference between those two in goalscoring ability!
Both Henry and Owen have working in their favour the fact that they are first-choices - many of the other top Golden Boot contenders are in sides that have a range of options up front - eg Brazil (Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Romario?, anyone else whose name in Brazil starts with R..., Ralpho, RAYMONDO :D ), Argentina (Crespo, Batistuta, Saviola, Lopez).
Another good guide is who their teams play in Group play - a particularly weak opponent present the chance of a hat-trick, which can be the deciding factor in the Golden Boot as goals are hard to come by at this level - no Just Fontaine record broken in 2002 I'd say.

Group Winners - Another possible source of revenue? I will track back thru previous events to confirm a hunch on this one that there will be value in some underdog group winners. At an initial glance, the following teams and prices have distinct appeal - Ireland +350 Group E; Paraguay +350 Group B, Japan +200 Group H.

Hope to be back soon with more thoughts on these, head-to-head matchups and overs/unders.

Please, anyone who wants to be part of the following two months of fun leap in boots and all.
 

hoss

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Excellent post Anders:)

FWIW so far I've played Group Betting only on 4 teams Paraguay 11/2 (+550), Turkey 7/1 (+700), Ireland 5/1 (+500) and Croatia 7/1 (+700) - all bet on the day the groups were drawn - there were some massive price discrepancies over here - so it was a case of make up your mind quick + get on!:D

I wouldn't say I especially fancy these teams but they stood out as value at the time.

The trouble with football punting is that generally everyone has a fairly uniform + not too wrong view on how the game is going to end up - I play mostly on the Spreads in the UK on football, numbers of corners, offsides, team performance types of things! etc ;) , so the really interesting views for me will be the ones on how some of the less well known teams are likely to line up + their styles of play. Anyone who can translate Japanese would be handy too:eek: !!
I'll have a look at Golden Boot nearer the time but it's a bit far off still to be backing injury-prone players for me yet :nono:

All the best
Hoss
 

PerpetualCzech

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Kudos on this initiative Anders and hopefully we'll get a lot of good ideas going on Madjack's for the World Cup.

I agree it's probably foolish to look to an underdog for a serious bet on winning the whole thing. BUT ... underdogs do often make a run in these major competitions and it might just be a matter of time before one sneaks through. The Danes won EURO 92 and the Czechs were only 20 minutes away from winning EURO 96. Either of Bulgaria or Sweden cold have easily been in the finals in 94. But you are right ... I think any team past the first 8 has to be at least 100-200 to 1 for fair odds to win it all. For the record, these would be those 8, right? : Argentina, Brazil, France, Germany, England, Italy, Spain, Portugal.


Golden Boot plays: I wonder if there is any way to know ahead of time who will be the penalty taker for each team (usually it's only on guy, isn't it?) That should be worth an extra couple of goals over the course of the tourney if the team goes far.

Also, this is a really tough bet to pick IMO. 8 years ago some Russian striker scored 5 goals against Cameroon (I can't remember if he ended up winning it or not) and who would've ever thought about Suker 4 years ago at 25-to-1 before the tourney started. There's too much luck involved here for me to take a shot. (OTOH, if there were any place with a Field Bet offer on the Golden Boot then I would certainly get interested) BTW Henry and Owen are 10 and 20-to-1 respecitvely at Pinnacle.



Group plays: Let's take a quick scan to see how often groups fall "into form" to see if there is any value in picking underdogs:

1998
Group A
Brazil the favourite won, but only by a point after Norway upset them in their match.

Group B
Italy the favourite won easily.

Group C
France the favourite won easily.

Group D
Spain was the clear favourite here and they didn't even qualify, finishing third after losing 3-2 in a very exciting match with the Nigerians.

Group E
Holland was the favourite and won the group but only ony goal differential (tied in points with Mexico)

Group F
Germany the favourite also won but also here only on goal differential (tied with Yugoslavia)

Group G
England was probably the favourite here but maybe not by much. Romania wont he group over them by a point.

Group H
Argentina was the favourite and swept the group with 9 points.


1994

Group A
There was no clear favourite here but Columbia has the shortest odds at around evens. They finished last.

Group B
Brazil was the favourite and won the group.

Group C
Germany was a favourite over Spain, but not by much. They finished 1-2.

Group D
Argentina was a clear favourite and finished third on goal differential (tied with Bulgaria and Nigeria on points ... Nigeria was first)

Group E
Italy was heavy favourite and finished third on goal differential. Everyone had 4 points points in this group. Mexico won.

Group F
Holland the favourite and won the group, but only on goal differential (tied with Saudi Arabia and Belgium)


So at first glance it seems that underdogs can indeed be attractive plays for winning groups. Much less than half of the 14 groups had runaway winners and even though the favourites won many of the others, it was usually by the thinnest of margins. I think the prices we see out there on the favourites are too short to consider playing them. I'll go through Group by Group on my opinions on them later ... I hope others will do the same.

Last point (if you have made it this far): One area I love to bet on in soccer is totals. I believe the difference in styles of teams' play is much more than the variance in totals' lines that bookmakers post. Teams like Sweden and Poland plays very boring and defensive soccer and will be very attractive under plays for example. I'll post more on this later too.
 

PerpetualCzech

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World Cup Bulls and Bears

World Cup Bulls and Bears

Here's my quick initial opinion on the Groups. What I mean when I say I am bullish or bearish on a team isn't how good they are overrall, but relative to how the oddsmakers and public are rating them.

Disclaimer: Unforunately I don't know a lot about non-UEFA teams so keep this in mind please! (all lines from Pinnacle):


Group A
France - Bearish. Will not touch them. I think people underestimated the home field factor last time when they won. (There are been a very clear historical trend going way back of home teams winning the World Cup ... this time it won't be a factor though) Also, the lack of any serious competition since EURO 2002 may be a factor since they didn't have to qualify.

Denmark - Neutral, maybe slightly bearish. Had an impressive qualification run but their group was weak. I thought they were overvalued by oddsmakers towards the end of the qualifications so that trend continues we may get some value going against them. Unfortunately I don't know a lot about Uruguay or Senegal to be able to judge this well.

I would like to bet against France winning the group but don't know enough about the opposition to make a play on any of them. If I can get a price on the Field of +200 or more I'll take it for a strong play. (They are -325 to win the group)


Group B

Spain - Slightly bearish. Would be a bit more if they didn't have the motivational factor from last WC disaster hanging over them. Good qualification record but against a weak group and they couldn't win either of their only 2 challenging games (both ties away to Austria and Israel)

Slovenia- Very bullish. My sleeper pick for value in the competition. They've quietly had a great run the past few years and are playing like they have nothing to lose. The only problem is they play very defensively and ties don't win a group, wins do. For this reason, I will be looking to get them on the +0.5 handicap lines whenever I can. Also will take a shot at them to win the group at +800.


Group C

Brazil - Very bearish. The oddsmakers just refuse to back down on Brazil despite a very clear downward trend in this team for a long time. The whole country was turned upside down when it wasn't even clear they would qualify until the last few games. Will bet against them whenever I can because I think there will be *great* value.

Turkey - Neutral. Willl play them at +500 to win the group but only because of the attractive price with Brazil overvalued the way they are.

If I can get a field bet against Brazil for the group at +250 or better then I am all over it (they are -400 to win it :nooo: )


Group D

Portugal - Neutral. I thought Portugal might be a sleeper pick for the tournament but it looks like oddsmakers have already recongized them (-200 for the group +1000 for the tourney)

Poland - Slightly bearish. Many are buzzing with their impressive qualification round but their group was very weak (toughest competition was Ukraine) and mediocre teams with great qualifications rounds often flame out in the big show (e.g. Austria in 98 and Greece in 94)

Korea - Don't know. But at +1000 for the group maybe the home field advantage is worth a shot for an upset.



Group E

Germany - Slightly bearish. Definitely declined recently but it's no secret so doubt we will get value.

Ireland - Slightly bullish. On the rise after a dramatic qualification round that included a clinching 1-0 win at home that eliminated Holland. More boring football from these guys so will look for the +0.5 handicap lines again.

Cameroon and Saudi Arabia - Don't know. But they always seem to play high scoring games in the World Cup so I will play the Over when they match up.


Group F

Argentina - Bullish. The strongest team. Rolled over everyone in qualifications with a +27 goal differential in 18 games. They have the shortest price to win it all at +400 but I think it should be even smaller.

England - Neutral.

Sweden - Bullish. Gave up only *3* goals in 10 qualifying games! Definitely will play them with +0.5 handicap lines (especially againt Engalnd), and they should be available because the rest of the group is so strong.

Nigeria - Bearish (but uncertain). Might be on a decline after only squeaking through in qualifications.


Group G

Italy - Neutral. Same old story with the Italians. Solid, strong and everyone knows it.

Croatia - Bullish. Another strong side to emerge from fromer Yugoslavia. Had 6 shutouts in 8 qualifying games, including Scotland and Belguim. They'll have more support from home than most ... this country FLIPS OUT when it comes to sports. Worth a shot at +350 to win the group.

Ecuador - Bearish. Lots of press due to their impressive second place finish and win against Brazil but if you read between the lines you see only a +3 goal differential. Playing above their heads and a good fade.


Group H

This is a weird group with lots of uncertainties for me.

Japan - Neutral. Who knows what home field will do for them but it looks like the oddsmakers have already accounted for it properly (+250 to win the group)

Belgium and Russia - Unsure. I can never figure either of these teams out. Both are strong but never seem to make it to the "money" games. Maybe it's just bad luck, who knows.

Not touching this group.



Looking forward to hearing others' opinions!
 

nostromo

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you might want to check out the early lines for the group stage games, especially for the 2nd and 3rd round...most of those lines will change significantly after the first games are played so there could be good value on offer now.

all lines from Pinnacle

SLOVENIA +140 vs South Africa
I don't get it. S.Africa and Tunisia are two worst teams in the competition. This one should be below even money by kick-off.

PORTUGAL -110 vs Poland
-110? :shrug: should be closer to -160 in my book

JAPAN -140 vs Tunisia
This is the 3rd round match and there is a very good chance Japan will need to win this one to reach the last 16, against a team that will almost certainly be out by then. Unless Japan have 6 or 0 points from the first two games, they will be -250 here.
 

Anders

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Thanks heaps guys for the replies..

Perpetual Czech - some great points. Was thinking the same thing on the "pens" for the Golden Boot - I reckon that's the kind of thing that could put us ahead of the bunch. Something I will look into...

Nostromo - thanks for the Pinnacle early prices heads-up. There's a few there I like, including those u have mentioned, that may be worth an early play.

I have started collating some stats and will continue to work on them.

What I would love to know is if anyone has some wagering stats on previous tournaments? Eg, which teams were favoured in previous tournaments in the group stage head-to-heads...that sort of stuff.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Keep it coming guys, not long now :cool:
 
A

Antonio

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Hey mate:D . I appreciate the kudos in the Bball forum. I'll be here dont you worry. Will be real busy the next 3-4 weeks, but after that i hope to add as much insight and info as possible.

Forza Azurri:cool:
 

Nick Douglas

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Be careful betting against African teams. If you think about it, most people know little about them and there is no built in home team betting factor because I would think that very few customers at these books are African.

Let's look back at 1998:

Morocco: Drew Norway, beat Scotland and lost to Brazil. Really, they should have qualified because Norway advanced ont he strength of beating a Brazillian team that already had the group wrapped up. Betting against this African side would have resulted in a loss overall.

Cameroon: Drew Chile and Austria, lost to Italy. Missed qualfication by a single point. A second straight disappointing World Cup for Africa's best side. They have looked quite strong in all international competition recently so I expect a better performance this summer. Betting against them probably would not have been profitable considering the two draws.

South Africa: Drew Denmark, Drew Saudi Arabia and lost to France. Failed to advance but if anyone remembers the Denmark game, it was a brutal game with 3 expulsions in the second half of play and it resulted in African soccer officials complaining about unfair treatment to the African sides. Surely they were huge underdogs to France and Denmark and probably favorites to beat Saudi Arabia. Probably no money to be made betting against them.

Nigeria: Beat Spain, beat Bulgaria and lost to Paraguay. The Paraguay game was meaningless, as they had already taken first place in the group. They looked like a dominant side until they crumbled defensively against Denmark in the round of 16. They have looked spotty in international competitions but they did salvage a tie recently in a friendly at Paraguay. Obviously betting against them four years ago would have been hazardous.

Tunisia: Lost to England, Lost to Colombia and tied Romania. The Romania game is misleading because they had already clinched the group. Arguably one of the weakest sides in 1998 and placed in a tough group to boot. Definitely there was money to be made playing against them, although one would imagine the price would have been high.

Overall, African sides had 3 wins, 5 losses and 7 draws in 15 preliminary round games. Not very impressive numbers but from a betting standpoint, one would have to have picked their spots extremely carefully to make money betting against them.

Senegal replaces Morocco and the other four African sides are the same. The FIFA rankings for these teams shows the general bias against African sides.

Cameroon - 19

Tunisia - 29

Nigeria - 32

South Africa - 36

Senegal - 44

*Five* teams that didn't even qualify for the World Cup are rated ahead of the highest rated African side.

When you first glance at the groups, most people would basically dismiss every African side as being unable to advance. I don't know how many will advance, but I am saying that African sides have a chip on their shoulder over the officiating at the last World Cup and the fact that Germany was awarded the 2006 World Cup so be careful in blindly playing against African sides.
 

Anders

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Thanks heaps Nick _ some great info there. I have some thoughts on totals regarding African teams and other 'dogs but at this stage without all the stats gathered it's still a hunch. Will look further into it and reveal details later.
Am currently looking at these as ...

Potential early plays:

Sweden +225/Draw +215 o England

Paraguay -125 v Sth Africa

Slovenia +550/Draw +250 o Spain

Turkey +450/Draw +245 o Brazil

China +250/Draw +225 o Costa Rica

Ireland +250/Draw +225 o Germany

Saudi Arabia +450/Draw +245 o Cameroon

Paraguay +280/Draw +220 o Spain

Slovenia +140 o South Africa

Croatia +270/Draw +230 o Italy

China +1000/Draw +425 o Brazil

Portugal -110 v Poland

Denmark +400/Draw +240 o France

Costa Rica +600/Draw +300

Thoughts: The obvious question we have to ask with early plays is _ will the line move/are we getting an advantage by playing these at this stage?
A little homework could indicate that we may be; of course the negative aspect would be something happening in the meantime. Usually, this should only strengthen our case with most plays being "dog" ones.
I'm going to investigate these plays closer during the coming week and imagine I will play a decent percentage of them; am keen on people's contributions (some of these plays have already been raised by Nostromo; cheers).
Another question I would like lots of input on: Is it worth hedging the win with the draw for good-priced underdogs? I like the "insurance" of still getting better than a unit for either a win or draw but bolder punters may be able to argue (or even prove thru history) the value of backing solely the upset victory. Even more interesting; any football punters regularly back the draw as their sole option?
One more thought _ many matches in the final round of group play are made relatively irrelevant (Man, that's a nifty phrase...lol..) because of previous results, ie - certain teams have already qualified/been eliminated. Also, some teams are seeking specific results because of how other teams in their group and other groups (with an eye on the 2nd rd draw) are placed.
Can we also take advantage of this at an early stage?
Let's hear it team :cool:
 

TexasBC6

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Great discussion fellas. Unfortunately I doubt I will be able to contribute anything of value considering I don't know squat about soccer (errr, football) :)

Will be keeping an eye on this thread because I know you guys are sharp and there is money to be made. Good luck.
 

Anders

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Thanks Tex, GL with the puck playoffs; let's cash in there too... :cool:

Here's today's wrap from the friendlies...

SOCCER-WORLD-FRIENDLIES-COLLATED
COLLATED INTERNATIONAL FRIENDLY RESULTS
London, April 17 Reuters - Collated results of international soccer friendlies played on Wednesday:
- - - -
In Murcia, Spain: South Africa 0 Ecuador 0
- - - -
In Paris: France 0 Russia 0
Att: 78,000
- - - -
In Stuttgart: Germany 0 Argentina 1
Scorer: Juan Pablo Sorin 48
HT: 0-0; Att: 54,570
- - - -
In Aberdeen: Scotland 1 Nigeria 2
Scorers:
Scotland - Christian Dailly 7
Nigeria - Julius Aghahowa 41, 70
HT: 1-1; Att: 20,465
- - - -
- - - -
In Milan: Italy 1 Uruguay 1
Scorers:
Italy - Christian Panucci 73
Uruguay - Sebastian Abreu 77
HT: 0-0; Att: 16,773
- - - -
In Belfast: Northern Ireland 0 Spain 5
Scorers: Raul 23, 54, Ruben Baraja 48, Carles Puyol 70,
Fernando Morientes 79
HT: 0-1; Att: 20,000
- - - -
In Liverpool: England 4 Paraguay 0
Scorers: Michael Owen 4, Danny Murphy 47, Darius Vassell 55,
Celso Ayala 78og
HT: 1-0; Att: 42,713
- - - - -
In Andorra La Vella: Andorra 2 Albania 0
Scorers: Emiliano Gonzalez 34pen, Manolo Jimenez 64
Red card: Arjan Xhumba (Albania) 33
HT: 1-0; Att: 250
- - - -
In Dublin: Ireland 2 United States 1
Scorers:
Ireland - Mark Kinsella 6, Gary Doherty 83
United States - Eddie Pope 34
HT: 1-1; Att: 39,000
- - - -
In Vienna: Austria 0 Cameroon 0
- - - -
In Athens: Greece 0 Czech Republic 0
- - - -
In Ljubljana: Slovenia 1 Tunisia 0
Scorer: Miran Pavlin 23
HT: 1-0; Att: 6,000
- - - -
In Brussels: Belgium 1 Slovakia 1
Scorers:
Belgium - Bart Goor 55
Slovakia - Vladimir Janocko 82
HT: 0-0
- - - -
In Oslo: Norway 0 Sweden 0
Att: 20,759
- - - -
In Kerkrade, Netherlands: Turkey 2 Chile 0
Scorers: Hakan Sukur 30, Ilhan Mansiz 81
HT: 1-0
- - - -
In Copenhagen: Denmark 3 Israel 1
Scorers:
Denmark - Jan Heintze 4, Jon Dahl Tomasson 14, Dennis
Rommedahl 37
Israel - Avi Nimny 90pen
HT: 3-0; Att: 9,598
- - - -
In Valletta: Malta 1 Azerbaijan 0
Scorer: Michael Mifsud 55
HT: 0-0; Att: 700
- - - -
- - - -
In Kiev: Ukraine 2 Georgia 1
Scorers:
Ukraine - Sergei Rebrov 17, Anatoli Timoshuk 90
Georgia - Vladimir Burduli 70
HT: 1-0; Att: 18,000
- - - -
In Zagreb: Croatia 2 Bosnia 0
Scorers: Ivica Olic 44, Davor Suker 54pen
HT: 1-0
- - - -
In Debrecen: Hungary 2 Belarus 5
Scorers:
Hungary - Krisztian Kenesei 13, Miklos Feher 86pen
Belarus - Aleksandr Kleb 22, Vitaly Kutuzov 29, 33,
Aleksandr Hackevic 44, Petr Kacsuro 76,
HT: 1-4; Att: 8 000
- - - -
In Bydgoszcz: Poland 1 Romania 2
Scorers:
Poland - Tomasz Hajto 85
Romania - Ioan Ganea 30, Adrian Mutu 35
HT: 0-2; Att: 16,000
- - - -
In Smederevo: Yugoslavia 4 Lithuania 1
Scorers:
Yugoslavia - Sasa Ilic 16, Mateja Kezman 35, 76, Bojan
Brnovic 87
Lithuania - Raimondas Zutautas 20
HT: 2-1; Att: 14,000
- - - -
In Prilep: Macedonia 1 Finland 0
Scorer: Goran Stavrevski 36
HT: 1-0; Att: 5,000
- - - -
In Yokohama: Japan 1 Costa Rica 1
Scorers:
Japan - Tomokazu Myojin 70
Costa Rica - Winston Parks 77
HT: 0-0; Att: 64,783
 

nostromo

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After a big day of internationals there are a few more early plays I like

RUSSIA -125 vs Tunisia

An incredible price, unfortunately unavailable to most madjackers as the generous guys offering this are William Hill, who do not accept US clients since a couple of months ago. Canbet's -145 is still good enough, Pinnacle's -165 a bit low but even that might be gone by then.
Slovenia-Tunisia was one of the five games I had the opportunity to watch today and while Tunisia were not bad - they were actually the better side in the 2nd half - they should've been 0-3 down in 1st.

KOREA +205 vs Poland
USA +500 vs Poland

Poland looks pathetic and with less than 50 days to go I don't think they can get their act back together. They shouldn't be favoured against anyone and 50 days from now they probably won't be ;) both lines from Pinnacle

Anders raised a couple of interesting issues in his earler post, I'll get back to them later.
 

PerpetualCzech

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I would watch out when deciding how much consideration to give to these Friendly games ... don't forget Europe is in the last few weeks of their seasons. Yes, a lot of teams are playing for nothing but others, mostly the top ones, are jockeying for Championships/CL/UEFA spots. At any rate, there is a lot of soccer going on right now and it's not clear how geared up a lot of the players will be for these Friendlies.
 

Anders

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Early Plays:

Sweden +225/Draw +215 o England

Slovenia +550/Draw +250 o Spain

Croatia +115 o Mexico

Turkey +450/Draw +245 o Brazil

Japan +175 o Belgium

Korea Republic +205 o Poland

Russia -120 o Tunisia

Ireland +250/Draw +225 o Germany

Saudi Arabia +450/Draw +245 o Cameroon

Slovenia +140 o South Africa

Croatia +270/Draw +230 o Italy

Portugal -110 v Poland

Slovenia +250 o Paraguay

Denmark +400/Draw +240 o France

Japan -140 o Tunisia
 

hoss

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I thought it might be useful if people posted their views on the various friendlies played last night - I accept that they aren't full blooded games + a lot of players missed out through injury but you can't beat watching a team play.

England/Paraguay- easy win for England, although margin flattering due to 2 deflected shots + an o.g. Paraguay were missing probably their 2 most influential players (Chilavert + Acuna) and didn't really pose much of a threat. England played alright but I'd take the result, especially as regards Paraguay with a pinch of salt :shrug:

Rep of Ireland/USA - match ruined by a flooded pitch, Ireland dominated early but the longer the game went on, the more the US got back into it - they looked especially dangerous from corners + set pieces (keep an eye on 1st scorer prices for the centre-backs come the World Cup ;) ). Ireland showed in their Qualifying group what they are capable of when on song + I thought that even though Roy Keane was missing, USA looked a fair side.

Scotland/Nigeria - Nigeria deserved to win, but Scotland had an inexperienced (+ rubbish) side out. Got the feeling that Nigeria will be involved in some very exciting games in the WCup, they looked great going forward but defended v.dodgily at times. The strange thing is that they play England + Sweden in the groups who are both very solid + fairly boring, the Argentina game may be the one to get involved in goals buying!:D

A couple of points in response to Nick Douglas' very thorough piece on African teams - 2 of them, Tunisia and S.Africa are basically incapable of scoring. I notice that both were shut out again yesterday, if you look back through their recent matches S.Africa have now scored 4 from 7 matches (3 in 1 game) and Tunisia haven't scored in at least 7!:eek: These both, especially S.A, want fading IMO. I don't think (+ hope) Nigeria will get through their group. Which leaves Cameroon + Senegal. I know some serious players have been supporting Senegal + they could be the dark horses as long as their organisation holds up.

Any views from anyone who watched any of the other games would be appreciated, esp. likely styles of play, or if you disagree with above!:moon:

Cheers
Hoss:cool:

PS Anders you're mad to have that many plays now!! But at least you're looking better these days, even if you've still got the muscles:D
 

Nick Douglas

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I only saw the Ireland vs. U.S. friendly and would agree with Hoss. Basically Ireland looked world class compared to the U.S. in the first half but then the second half was played with a lot of subs. Pitch was in terrible condition so I don't know how much can be taken from that match.

You guys make some good points about African sides and how weak Tunisia and South Africa have looked. My main point is that in sports gambling money is usually made by beating *other gamblers*, not the book or the teams playing on the field. It is best to try to find an edge that other gamblers don't see and play it rather than look at a team and pick a winner. The average punter is going to look at these African sides and dismiss them partially because they have not seen them in action.

I fully admit that I don't get to see much international football outside of what is shown in the U.S. (generally U.S. games with some Mexican games and a few from other South American and Central American teams), but I am just talking about the general handicapping principle of finding an edge that the public misses.
 

Anders

Bandit
Forum Member
Dec 17, 2000
4,120
2
0
New Zealand
Thanks for all the great work guys....I'm still working behind the scenes on trends and stats....

Have a host more plays that I think have value to play now for various reasons....mostly at Pinnacle and Centrebet...


Golden Boot: Henry 10-1
Owen 20-1
Larsson 51-1 (half-unit)

To Win Group B: Slovenia 11-1

To Win Group C: Croatia $5.75

To Not Qualify for 2nd Rd: Poland +150
Germany +250

To Qualify for 2nd Rd: USA +175

Goal in Game:

Ireland/Cameroon; goal in 1st 36 min - Yes -110

Paraguay/Sth Africa; goal in 1st 35m - No -110

Italy/Ecuador; goal in 1st 34m - No -110

China/Costa Rica; goal in 1st 35m - No -110

USA/Portugal; goal in 1st 30m - No -110

France/Uruguay; goal in 1st 39m - Yes +100

Cameroon/Saudi; goal in 1st 36m - Yes -110

Denmark/Senegal; goal in 1st 36m - Yes -110

Sth Africa/Slovenia; goal in 1st 36m - No -110

Italy/Croatia; goal in 1st 39m - No 5 to 6

Denmark/France; goal in 1st 36m - Yes -110

Cameroon/Germany; goal in 1st 37m - Yes -110

England/Nigeria; goal in 1st 35 mins - Yes -110

Costa Rica/Brazil; goal in 1st 33m - Yes -110

Poland/USA; goal in 1st 32m - No -110

Top Asian team: Japan +100

Top African team: Cameroon +170


More than happy to expand on reasoning if anyone wants :cool:

Keep it coming team :)
 

TexasBC6

Registered User
Forum Member
Dec 10, 2000
828
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Austin, TX
Ok Anders, I'm game. What's the reasoning behind so many 1st 30-39 minutes plays? Truer form early in the game?
 

vanbasten

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 21, 2001
1,567
1
0
pennsylvania
anders,

haven't done the homework you have, but will get to as my work obligations slow down here in May. have already played argentina at 4.5-1 to win (one unit) and france at 3-1 to win (one unit) back in december.

looking forward to lots of coffee as games here will be on @ 3 in the morning.

good luck.
 
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