An actual handicapping issue...

TheShrimp

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the thread about the mamphis/UAB game on the NCAA forum got me thinking about this. . .

I have seen and heard several times over the past year (most notably in the book "The Odds") that it is a MYTH that Sportsbooks try to get equal action and just profit on the Vig. This might also be stated in one of the articles at madjack's home page, though I am not sure of this.

I have also seen and heard the exact opposite (that they want balanced action, so they can just skim the vig), notably from several members of this forum, and also recently on the HBO special about setting lines.

Now, if it is a myth that the books make their money from the Vig, that implies that they must make their money from "tricking" the money onto the wrong side of games.

For instance, SIA had STL at 13.5 for a lot of SB week. Those who support the theory that they just want the Vig would say they were trying to balance their action because they had too much coming in on the Pats. This would mean that a bet on the Rams at 13.5 was the value-bet.

Those who claim the Vig-theory is a myth would say SIA was trying to "trick" people into putting money on the Rams by lowering the line, knowing that even 13.5 was too high. This would mean that a bet on the Pat's was a value bet.

Do any of you more knowledgable people have any thoughts/facts on whether the Vig-theory is a myth or not? What does this say about betting with or against line moves? If a sportsbook consistently makes more money than just skimming the vig would dictate, this would indicate the "trap" theory is correct, but I don't know how to get these facts and figures.

For the memph/uab game tonight, the big line move would indicate that memph is a good value at -4.5 (should be about 6.5). However, if the book doesn't really want equal action (because they know something we don't know) then a bet on UAB would be a good bet, even with only 4.5.

My question concisely: is the equal-action-vig-theory correct or is the trap-line theory correct? Your answer should indicate how you bet a line move.

Thanks,
TheShrimp
 

rrc

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Don't think books mind having a side...

Don't think books mind having a side...

Example:
Book has taken the following bets:

$100,000 on Rams -14.......$50,000 on Pats +14

Pats cover book wins $60,000 (110,000-50,000)
Rams cover book loses $45,000 (55,000-100,000)

Book is risking 45,000 to make 60,000, doesn't sound too bad assuming their action is more "square" than "wiseguy"
 

Ike Bomb

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I think the books would be happy just splitting the action, and not risking trying to "trick people" into betting one way or the other. All of the major casinos are owned and operated by publicly held corporations, and I think the need to turn a consistent profit outweighs the risk of losing big.

Or, maybe not. :shrug:
 

Chris

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ALL books are going for even action. Why would a book want to expose it's self like that unless they where a player in the markets. Which in some cases that is true.Problem is with steam chasers all the syndicates and betting groups it is really hard for books to get even action now a days. You asked how do you bet a line move? Well I could talk on that subject for about a year. One thing to keep in mind don't be betting line moves unless you know what you are doing and you have a live lines feed infront of you. Another thing to keep in mind is which books are moving the line? Are the credit and or BIG books moving and all the others are following on air? I have followed line movement for sometime now and I will be the first to tell you that the majority of the moves that happen before 6 eastern are other books playing into the markets and books following other books because they moved there line one way or another. I tend to think that there are very few bookmakers moving on action. Now a days with so many folks trying to scalp and middle because they have the Don Best screen in front of them makes for volatile market place IMO
 
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thunderdoll

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I think most of the time the book wants to split the action. That would be the safe thing to do. Casinos do not gamble, we do. But with human greed being what it is I think they every so often they set a trap. Maybe if they are having a good run they might try to make a little more.
 

Ike Bomb

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Chris

Chris

Two questions:

Where do I get a live line feed?

What is a Don Best screen?


I buy and sell stocks on an almost daily basis and I would like to transfer some of that knowledge to my sports "investing", if that is possible. Thanks.
 

Chris

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Buying and selling stock is dam near the same thing as sports wagering IMO. Especially if you are scalping and middling. Don Best is a lines service. For all the bells and whistles it will cost you $600 a month. You can order it right on his site. If you decide that is to much for your pocket book then don't even bother trying to bet into line moves. There is also a new service that is coming out that will cost from what I understand just half of Don Best just won't have all the bells and whistles which is fine by me.
 

TheShrimp

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Chris said:
ALL books are going for even action. Why would a book want to expose it's self like that unless they where a player in the markets.

In the book, "The Odds", I believe Joe Lupo (who runs the Stardust sportsbook) says that it is a MYTH that books try to get equal action and just skim the vig. If it wasn't him, it was someone else on the inside.

To answer your 'why' question, if the books can judge public sentiment well, then they are not taking as much of a risk by shading a line one way or the other. For instance, SIA offering STL -13.5 during SB week. Maybe they're setting themselves up for a loss, but maybe they know more about handicapping than we do.

TheShrimp
 

Chris

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One other thing to keep in mind there are these thing called wise guys if they shade the line to much the bookmaker will have to sell his new house and car. I agree lines are always shaded a tad on the favorites. WHY? Because public always bets favorites.
 

yyz

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Pure and simple, some books gamble!

If you think, as a book, that the Rams are "over valued", you might well want to make them -13', thus getting hits on the Rams in hopes of cleaning up.

What would you do?

I would want as close to even action as I could get, and be happy with the juice. I do believe that most of us would do the same. Let's face it.......even split on the sides, means free money, right?
 

Chris

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I would want as close to even action as I could get, and be happy with the juice. I do believe that most of us would do the same. Let's face it.......even split on the sides, means free money, right? [/B][/QUOTE]



WELL SAID.
 
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