are the wmd's found in jordan from iraq ?

[AR182]

Lab Tests Could Link Saddam's Missing WMDs to Jordan Plot

Laboratory tests on the poison gas smuggled from Syria into Jordan by al Qaeda terrorists earlier this month could determine whether their weapons came from Iraq, intelligence expert John Loftus said Monday.

"What they captured was a poison gas that consisted of several chemicals to be mixed together," Loftus told nationally syndicated radio host John Batchelor. "This has to be a poison gas of what they call the G-series; Sarin, Somin, Taubin and VX."

The terrorism expert noted that, "VX is the only kind of nerve gas where the chemicals could be safely mixed together in the field."

On Saturday, Jordanian officials announced that they had seized WMD components from the cars of the al Qaeda terror plotters, which had been intercepted just 75 miles from the Syrian border. Experts said that had the WMD plot succeeded, it could have killed 20,000.

Jordan's King Abdullah confirmed that the al Qaeda vehicles had come from Syria,

Noted Loftus:

"Syria dopes not make VX nerve gas - only Saddam Hussein did. So it looks as if now that Israeli intelligence and British intelligence were right - that Syria did indeed get a hold of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction just before the war."

Loftus said lab tests of the al Qaeda weapons would be key to establishing a link between the WMDs found in Jordan and Saddam's missing stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

AR Don't know how this pans out but remember the article on the missiles they found in Iraq right after the war that had the area in nose for chemicle mixtures? I have searched for the thread but locate it yet. It was one of those reports from that Monsur(spl) fellow.

 

[AR182]

dtb,

yes i do remember that article.

no matter what anybody else says i can't believe a character like saddam didn't have wmd's. it doesn't make sense to me.

 

[kosar]

Would it make you guys feel safer, or less safe, if those WMD are from Iraq? I, for one, would feel much less safe and definitely even more mad that as a result of our occupation, these weapons ended up in Al-Quedas hands. Let's hope they weren't Saddams. While it would be nice for the pro-occupation people to say, 'hey, here they are', most would agree that any of those weapons would be much more controlled in Iraq, rather than in 'wherever' in the hands of Bin Ladens organization. Wouldn't you think?

 

[djv]

Kosar you asking for good planning to be done. When you rush to war you forget little things like that.

 

[AR182]

kosar,

you're probably right that it would be safer in saddam's hands instead of alqaeda's. but lets remember saddam had used wmd's before.

however, i do hope that the wmd's did come from iraq only to somewhat quiet the people on the other side.

unfortunately,in today's politics there are people who hope that the president in the opposing party fails.

it goes for both parties, & i find this sickening!!

 

[Chanman]

It was probably only a matter of time before something like this happens: http://theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/13/1081838718258.html

 

[gardenweasel]

IF

IF

and it`s a big "IF" these weapons are tracable to iraq,a lot of folks are gonna have to eat crow....

a sh-t pot load of crow.....

in all honesty,"no wmd`s" has been the rallying cry of the far left since the occupation......it`s been the anthem.....and ignorantly so,if i do say so myself....

how could they paint themselves into such a corner given what we knew about saddam.....after so little time?

imo,how anybody with a brain could surmise that a year after defeating saddam and the start of the occupation that they could,with any credibility, state that iraq had no wmd`s is beyond me...

it`s so premature it`s crazy....we`re talking about the guy that obviously HAD chemical weapons....we knew that..the kurds certainly knew it.......and was trying like hell to build a nuclear reactor in the early "90`s" with french assistance......until the israeli`s got threatened and took it out....they actually did the iraqi`s a favor by hitting it before it went "hot"....


we`re talking about a country the size of texas....that had years to dispose of it`s stockpiles thanks to the u.n. dragging it`s feet.....

and how about "the u.n. dragging their feet".....now you have the "food for oil" scandal brewing and it`s beginning to look like the russians,the french,the germans,the chinese..... and maybe even the "U.N." were getting sweetheart deals from saddam....possibly even BRIBES for helping cock-block the u.s. from forcing saddam to come clean.....

alot of people had better hope there`s no substance to these 2 issues....

"IF" these allegations prove out,bush will get some vindication and some on the left side of the aisle will have a substantial amount of egg on their faces....

and they will deserve it for stupidly jumping to conclusions.....


but,as i said,they are still big "IF`S".....

p.s; "dogs".....that was mansour ijaz.........one smart cookie...i`m so glad he`s on our side.....pull some of his stuff off the net if you can......sharp as a tack...

 

[ctownguy]

Kosar, if they were in irag and assuming they would have stayed there, I would agree with you.

But this is where we definitely are going to disagree, I don't think they would have just stayed in Irag, that was the concern all along. You have to admit that if hussein had the chance he would sell them to the highest bidder or trade them or at the very least use them himself to bolster is defiance of the UN and/or the USA.

IMO there is no way hussein would have kept them for is own use and he was definitely a player in the terrorist war against us and anyone else that crossed him and his kind.


__________________

 

[gardenweasel]

guys.....

guys.....

isn`t that the whole point?.......if saddam isn`t there producing or holding this stuff.....

as the "U.N." mandated(lol).....

al qaida wouldn`t have it.......

saddam came clean...he had nothing....isn`t that what the inspectors said?....

that`s why this is such an important issue....if it`s true,the u.n. is about as valid as o.j.`s acquittal......

that`s the whole point....

it`s a big "IF"..... but if it`s true,it changes everything...

 

[AR182]

gw quote:"that`s why this is such an important issue....if it`s true,the u.n. is about as valid as o.j.`s acquittal...... "


if all of this comes forward, & if the countries, on the security council, are exposed for making deals with saddam, we will then see how legitimate all of the critics (kennedy, ny times, dem. leadership, the various newspapers around the world, etc.) are who have been constantly hammering bush & blair over the wmd's & not getting the u.n. involved.

do they have what it takes to apologize for prematurely jumping to conclusions about bush & blair's motives.

btw, from what i understand, there may be a few american corporations involved with this scandal.

this should be interesting.

 

[Blitz]

Would it make you guys feel safer, or less safe, if those WMD are from Iraq? I, for one, would feel much less safe and definitely even more mad that as a result of our occupation, these weapons ended up in Al-Quedas hands.

Kosar, I can respect peoples opposite opinions, but this maybe one of the dumbest statements ever posted on this board. Lets blame the US for going in after wmd, but before we could get in there, while we were dicking around with the UN, France and Russia, he was able to get it out of the country... does everything in your house lean that far left...

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Been following closely also AR.--and you are correct about a couple of U.S. companies involved also. I don't have a clue which yet. Looks like france-russia and U.N. are in some deep shit
----- from what I gathered so far is the French led Powell to believe they were with us on the resolutions till the very end then turned 180 degrees. From intel taken from Iraqi higher echelon non captured,The reason Saddam ignored all the ultimadums even after he was offered asylum by Bush is he was certain Russia and France would never let us invade.---and unless I am sadly mistaken this administration reason for invading was the fact that hussan continued to ignore the resolutions and wmd's were a by product. Whether they find wmd's is mute to me. The fact remains he had em-he used em-and refused to allow resolutions to confirm they were gone.
Saddam held all the cards to prevent invasion of Iraq--and his constant snubs and threats about burying us ect (if you remember) was the loudest --bring it on--assertion to date.

If one thing was accomplished it was the next dictator will think twice about bluffing--as noted by Lybia.

 

[kosar]

Blitz,

What might seem 'dumb' to you, could be common sense to others.

First off, this whole conversation is hypothetical to begin with. There STILL is not one shred of evidence that Iraq had WMD. This whole thread is basically a 'what if'. In fact, the whole occupation is based on a 'what if'.

What *I* would find dumb if WMD in Al-Quedas hands are found to come from Iraq would be anybody blaming the UN. They didn't slow us down, time wise, one bit. We decided to go to war. We pretended to play footsies with the UN for a while, while we were building up our forces over there. Once we had what we perceived as enough troops in position, we immediately went to war. The UN didn't affect our timeline even a little bit. What a dumb comment.

Once again hypothetically, I sure would feel a lot safer with WMD in Iraqs hands than in Al-Quedas. Saddam showed no inclination whatsoever to deal with Al-Queda, until possibly after we invaded. So yes, if it turns out that these weapons are scattered all over the Middle East, then I will blame Bush. While it would be nice for Bush and his followers to say, 'see he *did* have WMD after all', I for one sure as hell won't feel 'safer'. How about you?

 

[THE KOD]

Once again hypothetically, I sure would feel a lot safer with WMD in Iraqs hands than in Al-Quedas. Saddam showed no inclination whatsoever to deal with Al-Queda, until possibly after we invaded. So yes, if it turns out that these weapons are scattered all over the Middle East, then I will blame Bush. While it would be nice for Bush and his followers to say, 'see he *did* have WMD after all', I for one sure as hell won't feel 'safer'. How about you?

.........................................................................

kosar

I am just starting to hear about this and read on it.
But I have to agree with Blitz and DTB.

This explains why Saddam ignored Bush completely as he knew
Russia and France were going to vote against invasion and he felt secure in that. Maybe Germany too who knows.

So Saddam has time to get the WMDs out of his country and work a deal with Syria to store them or he sells them to them. He was playing the UN like a fiddle.

And Syria, bitchs that they are begin distributing some to Al Queda who may have been caught red handed in Jordan with WMD from Iraq.

And you blame that on Bush. If all this comes out looks like the hated Bush wins re-election handily.

What a mess.

KOD

 

[kosar]

.........................................................................

And you blame that on Bush. If all this comes out looks like the hated Bush wins re-election handily.

What a mess.
KOD

Well sure. I would blame it on whoever was responsible for going to Iraq. I guess that's Bush? :shrug:

It would be just one more nasty by-product of this debacle. Like DJV alluded to, there just wasn't much planning done. I mean, if some people here at madjacks could see that this (WMD falling into the wrong hands) was a possibility and said so before the invasion, surely Rummy and company considered this. Didn't they?

AR/Dogs,

Frankly, the 'well, he used them before' spiel is a little worn out. If he had all these weapons(possible) and this great propensity to use them(no), especially against us(that's what some people were scared of as they beat the war drum), then what better perfect opportunity to do so than as we were advancing towards Baghdad?

Jeez, he used them against Iran with our knowledge, our blessing, our weapons, our delivery systems and our technical assistance.

He also horribly gassed the Kurds(no, he didn't consider the Kurds to be his own people, but basically insurgents from Turkey-that's debatable, but it's also debatable when people always say that he 'gassed his own people'), to which we reacted strongly and immediately by setting up the no-fly zone. Saddam didn't bother them after that.

Those are the two cases of using chemical weapons that i'm aware of. It would be ridiculous to cite the first one and the second one was resolved 12 or 13 years ago.

Now we possibly have these weapons God knows where in the Middle East. Like I said before, as 'dumb' as it might sound to Blitz, I really hope that's not the case.

AR mentioned that he hopes that the WMD are from Iraq to 'quiet down' the other side. I don't mean to single this out, buddy, but I can't help but wonder how many other people are of that same opinion. I mean, can people actually be hoping for the absolutely worst-case scenario and the exact thing that we are trying hard to not let happen just because it would (maybe) help Bush politically? At least AR's honest.

I hope they find a big ol' shitload of WMD buried somewhere in Iraq, so Bush can get his brownie points, but it's hard for me to fathom that people are hoping that Saddam exported them to Al-Queda friendly countries.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

One Question
Considering Saddam had I believe 17 different opportunities to come clean--and a 15 day notice the shit would hit the fan and then given opp to go into exile to still avoid the war --and took none---who would you say was more responsible for the invasion--the U.S. or Saddam?????????

 

[FatBoy]

Assuming WMD's were moved to Syria, Jordan, or Lebanon.

The question is;

Did we know abut it before now?

Between US and and Israeli intelligence I think we would have known. So, why did we need to go into Iraq at all?

 

[kosar]

Dogs,

Your question implies that we had no choice. That's not the case. They were not an immediate threat (if they were even a legitimate threat at all) to us. Other countries had a choice, just like we did. Most chose something different than us. Time will tell if we did the right thing, but it ain't looking so hot right now and there is no reason to believe that things will turn around.

I could at least understand a stance from the pro-occupation people like 'it's f*cked up right now, but it will hopefully turn around and hopefully we'll leave Iraq with a peaceful democracy', but mostly it's more like, 'it's not so bad, we did the right thing, Saddam didn't listen to us so we had to do this'. Wrong. We didn't have to.

 

[AR182]

kosar quote:"how many other people are of that same opinion. I mean, can people actually be hoping for the absolutely worst-case scenario and the exact thing that we are trying hard to not let happen just because it would (maybe) help Bush politically? At least AR's honest. "


it's just because this war, like everything else, has turned into politics.

there were people ( eurpeans, some left leaning extremists & some memebers on the security council) & institutions( various newspapers around the world) in this world that were hoping that the war would go bad for the coalition.

also i feel there are too many people jumping to conclusions about this war way too early. time will tell if this war was a failure or a success.

so, if the wmd's that were found in jordan originated in iraq, it would at least quiet some people.

fatboy,

israeli intelligence has said from the beginning that iraq's wmds were shipped to syria.