- Feb 12, 2000
- 10,652
- 39
- 48
- 50
Corporate Taxes
- Thread starter dawgball
- Start date
Interesting dawg--chances are it will get worse--
Classic case in Senate today where they are hounding oil companies on profits--
This pretty much tells the story--
WSJ: Exxon Mobil Corp. posted the highest quarterly results in U.S. corporate history on the back of record oil prices. Exxon's annual after-tax profit of $40.6 billion was a record, exceeding the $39.5 billion it earned in 2006 (see chart above).
Corporate profits receive a lot of media attention, but what receives considerably less attention are the "corporate taxes" paid on corporate profits. Do a Google search for "Exxon profits" and you'll get about 8,000 hits. Now try "Exxon taxes" and you'll get a little more than 300 hits. That's a ratio of about 33 to 1.
I'm pretty sure that Exxon's tax payment in 2007 of $30 billion (that's $30,000,000,000) is probably a record, exceeding the $28 billion it paid last year.
By the way, Exxon pays taxes at a rate of 41% on its taxable income!
Update: The $40.6 billion and $39.5 billion figures are after-tax profits. For 2006, Exxon's EBT (earnings before tax) was $67.4 billion, it paid $27.9 billion in taxes (41.4% tax rate), and its NIAT (net income after tax), or profit, was $39.5 billion.
Classic case in Senate today where they are hounding oil companies on profits--
This pretty much tells the story--
WSJ: Exxon Mobil Corp. posted the highest quarterly results in U.S. corporate history on the back of record oil prices. Exxon's annual after-tax profit of $40.6 billion was a record, exceeding the $39.5 billion it earned in 2006 (see chart above).
Corporate profits receive a lot of media attention, but what receives considerably less attention are the "corporate taxes" paid on corporate profits. Do a Google search for "Exxon profits" and you'll get about 8,000 hits. Now try "Exxon taxes" and you'll get a little more than 300 hits. That's a ratio of about 33 to 1.
I'm pretty sure that Exxon's tax payment in 2007 of $30 billion (that's $30,000,000,000) is probably a record, exceeding the $28 billion it paid last year.
By the way, Exxon pays taxes at a rate of 41% on its taxable income!
Update: The $40.6 billion and $39.5 billion figures are after-tax profits. For 2006, Exxon's EBT (earnings before tax) was $67.4 billion, it paid $27.9 billion in taxes (41.4% tax rate), and its NIAT (net income after tax), or profit, was $39.5 billion.
Its so easy to pick on oil companies because all people hear are record profits. Sure they make a lot of money but when you compare the oil company's profit margins to other companies their margin is smaller. On average they make about 10 cents out of every dollar. Contrast that with the government which hauls in record tax revenue from gasoline taxes. The gov't. probably takes more money in via taxes than the oil company makes in actual profit.
Then you have these pompous ass politicians grandstanding so they can be seen as being tough on oil companies.
Then you have these pompous ass politicians grandstanding so they can be seen as being tough on oil companies.
Last edited:
How shocking that the companies setting all time profit records for ANY American companies are paying a lot in taxes. That's just craziness, isn't it?
Interesting to note the commentary from the officials yesterday, saying that they would not commit to using 10% of their record profits to engage in exploration and study on renewables, while saying nothing about the billions they receive in tax breaks to be used for just such a thing. Also found it interesting that Exxon spent more money last year on buying back stock than they did in their entire exploration and development efforts. Pretty sweet deal for these companies that are hit so "hard." Take tax incentive money for small efforts being made in ethanol areas, buying up the plants to help control the price and maintain the price of oil in the process, and also buying up supply of ethanol - and getting incentives for that, too. Are they willing to give up the incentives and tax breaks for renewable fuels (or a percentage of them, at least), since they refuse to mandate monies to go for the exact thing they are getting taxpayer money for? No? How surprising. At least their shareholders benefitted from the tax breaks and incentives.
Of course, the price of gas isn't their fault. Just ask them. It's our fault, for subsidizing the behavior, in many regards, with the people "we" put in power.
Interesting to note the commentary from the officials yesterday, saying that they would not commit to using 10% of their record profits to engage in exploration and study on renewables, while saying nothing about the billions they receive in tax breaks to be used for just such a thing. Also found it interesting that Exxon spent more money last year on buying back stock than they did in their entire exploration and development efforts. Pretty sweet deal for these companies that are hit so "hard." Take tax incentive money for small efforts being made in ethanol areas, buying up the plants to help control the price and maintain the price of oil in the process, and also buying up supply of ethanol - and getting incentives for that, too. Are they willing to give up the incentives and tax breaks for renewable fuels (or a percentage of them, at least), since they refuse to mandate monies to go for the exact thing they are getting taxpayer money for? No? How surprising. At least their shareholders benefitted from the tax breaks and incentives.
Of course, the price of gas isn't their fault. Just ask them. It's our fault, for subsidizing the behavior, in many regards, with the people "we" put in power.
- Feb 12, 2000
- 10,652
- 39
- 48
- 50
Because of this opinion of oil companies (which is an outsider looking in, I think -- could be wrong), all corporations should face taxes like this?
I guess I don't really understand your post or question, specifically. Yes, I am an outsider looking in. My only experience with oil companies is that I had a father who owned Gulf Gas stations years ago. He was often frustrated by the distributor, who was often frustrated by the other upper levels, etc. He had nothing to do with the price of gas or oil - they were all set for him. He did have a full service station, and made his money in other areas - the garage, selling ice, other stuff.
Again, I don't really understand your question. Are you asking me if I think all Corporations should pay taxes like the oil companies do? I spent most of the time in my post talking about the tax benefits and incentives they receive, which other companies don't. And I think this administration in particular helped establish this scenario - one of the very first things they did after taking power. I'll be happy to answer your question, I'm sorry I don't really understand what you want me to say.
- Feb 12, 2000
- 10,652
- 39
- 48
- 50
My apologies. I see that you were replying to the replies and not the original post.
Your father's experience in the oil business sounds the exact same as in any multi-level distribution business. The guy above you is always seen as screwing you.
I think this perception usually starts at the level directly below the original supplier and trickles down (and snowballs) all the way to the customer.
I would like to hear other's thoughts on the original post. Do others feel that it is in the best interest of our country to have the highest corporate tax rate (once states are added in).
This is not a question of the dollars collected, but the percentage collected.
Let's see your asking for input on rates. But first answer is someone defending big oil. Dog's sticks upfor big oil. He knows they can use every trick in book to call down total sales. To the point we don't know a numder. It is are way of life that Feds collect and states do to. Who can afford to pay more the common man/family or high powered corp. Would that be a fair question?
Who has smartest lawyers? You can see The Clinton lawyers must not been to good. On a 109 million earned they payed out over 33 million in taxes. Is that fair? To answer your first question who ever said our tax system was fair. And to compare us to other countries where most of us would never want to live. I guess it's about what you get out of taxes collected. And in those countries that may have lower taxes. You can bet they make it up some place else. Sorry to go on but there is no easy answer to your question. We would need to know a lot more.
Who has smartest lawyers? You can see The Clinton lawyers must not been to good. On a 109 million earned they payed out over 33 million in taxes. Is that fair? To answer your first question who ever said our tax system was fair. And to compare us to other countries where most of us would never want to live. I guess it's about what you get out of taxes collected. And in those countries that may have lower taxes. You can bet they make it up some place else. Sorry to go on but there is no easy answer to your question. We would need to know a lot more.
I thought we'd been through this before (actually I know we have) - http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=289663&highlight=exxon
From their 10-K this year Note 18 regarding Income Tax, they expensed $5.1 Billion for Federal and State tax.
Keep spillin' the "facts", Wayne
I apologize if an oil question is off topic, but seems to be the way things were taken. I heard on a very non-political radio program on Friday morning that an employee of Exxon had e-mailed one of the radio personalities (who consistently rails on Bush and company, just so I'm showing the context) that it costs oil companies around 50 cents to produce a quart of oil. Some of these nicer quarts of oil can run $7 to $8, but all are considerably higher than before. This came up when discussing the trucker strike and efforts to have their cost noticed and addressed. Evidently they have to change their oil a lot, and it can be around 36 quarts to change every time they do it, at least once a month or every 3 weeks, or some such thing. Couple truckers called in and said that was correct, it cost them anywhere from $250 - $350 to change the oil, not to mention how much gas costs these days. They said the oil companies are brokering deals with the big trucking companies to sell their rigs gas at significant savings, and it's easy to see how the owner-operators are being driven out of business.
I bring this up, to ask if anyone knows how much it costs to produce a quart of oil, or some of those oil additives, etc. Cause if it is at something approaching just 50 cents, then I'd say the oil companies do have some 'splaining to do, when it comes to what they charge and profit from - and who it affects (us, in the long run, of course). I spent a lot of time googling on this, and couldn't really find anything specific, which was also kind of interesting to me. Is it a secret?
I bring this up, to ask if anyone knows how much it costs to produce a quart of oil, or some of those oil additives, etc. Cause if it is at something approaching just 50 cents, then I'd say the oil companies do have some 'splaining to do, when it comes to what they charge and profit from - and who it affects (us, in the long run, of course). I spent a lot of time googling on this, and couldn't really find anything specific, which was also kind of interesting to me. Is it a secret?
Bobby I'm having a hard time understanding where your coming from--
If you could highlight area you think I'm spinning and put contraditiction with reference where you got it--would be much easier on all of us to determine which is correct. :shrug:
Here is "audited" finacial report the last 3 "000's) in all #'s are deleted.
Income Statement Get Income Statement for:
View: Annual Data | Quarterly Data All numbers in thousands PERIOD ENDING 31-Dec-07 31-Dec-06 31-Dec-05
Total Revenue 404,552,000 377,635,000 370,680,000
Cost of Revenue 232,852,000 213,255,000 213,002,000
Gross Profit 171,700,000 164,380,000 157,678,000
Operating Expenses
Research Development - - -
Selling General and Administrative 87,571,000 83,857,000 86,698,000
Non Recurring - - -
Others 12,250,000 11,416,000 10,253,000
Total Operating Expenses - - -
Operating Income or Loss 71,879,000 69,107,000 60,727,000
Income from Continuing Operations
Total Other Income/Expenses Net - - -
Earnings Before Interest And Taxes 70,874,000 68,056,000 59,928,000
Interest Expense 400,000 654,000 496,000
Income Before Tax 70,474,000 67,402,000 59,432,000
Income Tax Expense 29,864,000 27,902,000 23,302,000
Minority Interest (1,005,000) (1,051,000) (799,000)
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=XOM&annual
So according to Yahoo finance they paid 29.8 -27.9 and 23.3 billion in taxes the last 3 years
Now wheres the spin:shrug:
Last edited:
http://sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/34088/000119312508041781/d10k.htm
Note 18 on page 78 shows where their tax "expense" went which is different than their tax payment - but that's another argument
1/3 of their revenues come from the US, yet 1/6 of their taxes stay here.
Note 18 on page 78 shows where their tax "expense" went which is different than their tax payment - but that's another argument
1/3 of their revenues come from the US, yet 1/6 of their taxes stay here.
- Feb 12, 2000
- 10,652
- 39
- 48
- 50
7% for cost of goods sold is low, but it's not the craziest of situations ever. Does this number include exploration, R&D, employee's salary/benefits, etc?
I don't know if it does or not. My guess is that it doesn't.
Take a software company, for example. Once they have sold enough to pay off original R&D, their cost of goods sold could be virtually zero when compared to the retail price of the product.
The skirt company that I consult for has a cost of goods sold of 15-20% (fluctutates for mistakes). And this is a custom manufactured product in the US.
Long story short, I don't see 7% for oil companies being that shocking if it does not account for other line items.
- Feb 12, 2000
- 10,652
- 39
- 48
- 50
And one thing to add.
As a country, we need to take care of truckers. They are our life-blood.
I don't care about consumer gas being $3-4. I kind of like it because it will speed our innovation of alternatives. But I wish there was some way that truckers could get cheaper gas along the way.
As a country, we need to take care of truckers. They are our life-blood.
I don't care about consumer gas being $3-4. I kind of like it because it will speed our innovation of alternatives. But I wish there was some way that truckers could get cheaper gas along the way.
Agreed on both posts, db. The thing is, if the cost to produce has not gone up much - for instance if it cost 45 cents a few years ago, but the price of the quart of oil is at $7 or whatever which is much higher, that is the story. Not saying that's true, was just looking for any ideas on it.
- Feb 12, 2000
- 10,652
- 39
- 48
- 50
This gets to the point as to why I don't discuss oil. I don't know crap about it. :nono:
I think it is in fashion for everone to bash them right now. I have no clue if it is warranted or not, but I think a lot of people jump on the train without really knowing the details.
as briefly stated above, I love it that oil is going too high to sustain. It will only breed stronger innovation by out best. The oil lobbies will only control the market for so long. It will probably be longer than some people can handle, but in the long run they know their party is coming to an end.
It's similar (but on a bigger scale) to Real Estate agents jabbing us forever because they "knew" more than us. Or term life insurance companies sticking it to us forever because we had no way to compare easily.
There will be innovation that trumps any lobby dollars that oil can throw out. And high gas prices will make it happen sooner.
dawgball good point about our truckers. As there cost for fuel goes up they will have to pass it on to guess who? They are important along with a good rail system. Rail still can move a lot of weight for lower cost. However are rail system is not as large as it once was. So the trucks have to take it from there. Anyone have a service man or delivery to there home latley. Get ready for a added fuel charge. I just don't know if this group in W H have any idea.
