Cuba - 21st Century Thoughts on a Cold War Anachronism

escarzamd

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I'd like to hear thoughts from the board about the next step in our relationship with Cuba. I have some thoughts and spend a fair amount of time banging this one around for personal reasons, but my objectivity is difficult to maintain as a 2nd gen. immigrant.

I just saw a post catching up that refers to Castro's administration as our "enemy" and would like to hear more detailed thoughts on how we might handle the next phase.

Be back to bounce it around when I get time.........D:SIB c
 

smurphy

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Our position with them since the Cold War ended has been VERY hypocritical. Insane that we have no problems trading with the likes of China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and Venezuela - yet for some dumb reason draw the line with them.
 

Chadman

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C'MON, smurph...you KNOW why we trade with Saudi Arabia, right? At least in THIS generation anyway...

Good question, Doc...I really am unfamiliar with the Cuba scenario, but might look at it more. Concerned at the moment with our possible role in the escalating situation in South America, perhaps aiding Colombia (isn't THAT a bit ironic in many ways) against Venezuela - and what could happen if war escalates to our south.

To say nothing of our military being so worn down and so much of our firepower being committed overseas at the moment.

Evidently Chavez is pretty good buds with Castro's son who I guess is in line to control Cuba moving forward. Not sure what all that means, other than I am worried about our country being a part of it.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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two edged sword here Doc
I hate to see the continued plight of the population in general there--and not sure how things will go now--but with castro at helm--agree with sanctions--mostly on premise of not negotiating with hostile dictators.
 

smurphy

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Yeah, Cuba's been real 'hostile' the last 40 years. They only produceded 19 fewer 9-11 hijackers than Saudi Arabia. I think the most dangerous thing to come out of there has been Jose Canseco.

This has been nothing more than an irrational pride-fest that has done nobody any good on either side.
 

Spytheweb

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Cuba gave the US their @ss to kiss and the US has been burning ever since. Iran too, when they would not give their oil to England and the US. US backed the Shaw of Iran (who was another Saddam) and Iranian people booted him from power.
 

escarzamd

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Full disclosure.....

My father was a physician who, in his mind, was forced to up and leave his country in 1960 because of the aftermath of the revolution. He trained some in the states, had been practicing for 5yrs as a gen. surgeon, had 5 kids already w/#6 in the oven, and then was told his practice was now state property. He made the most difficult of choices to pull up his stakes and start over........all-in on a draw. He had an Illinois license, and hit his draw on US special exemptions to immigration status given to Cuban professionals at that time who had "ties" to the states (his only ties were two yrs of residency training at U of Chicago, zero family)......basically on the right side of the fix.

My parents were essentially hawks on this particular topic (and very few others), so all I hear growing up is Castro-bashing, and with good reason. It got to the point that discussion was not even an option.......my mother would just clam up and wash the dishes loudly, which was my cue that the conversation was over.......and she is the same 47 yrs later.

I think US policy towards Cuba over the last 20yrs is just ri-fvck-u-lous. How did we bring down the Soviet Union 20yrs ago??? In short, Levi's and Walkmans. Why not the same way? Raul is "beans, not cannons (pet phrase)" guy......since Fidel almost boxed from his bout w/diverticulosis (shameless colonoscopy promo), Raul has been running the show and slowly loosening the vise-grip Fidel had on economic ideology. Just opening up to foreign investment has done more in the last few yrs than Soviets could ever do for the island. Raul was always the pragmatist. His reputation as a button-man for Fidel is somewhat deserved and should not be completely ignored, but that was a long time ago........he's made out to be a mini-Stalin, but calling him that now is like calling me a pothead because I smoked in college. His grip on power is solid and he has surrounded himself with moderates while marginalizing hard-liners in the government over his 2 yrs at the helm thus far.

I think we have a nice oppotunity w/Cuba to demonstrate a new M.O. in diplomacy. Small in scale and of significant interest being such a close neighbor, the island is ripe for a liitle early give in opening the diplomatic lines by offering some concessions, imho. Why not end the travel embargo? You want to start a movement? Do it at the ground level. Opening up travel and private investment injects thousands of people that share our ideologies, inflames the desire for freedoms, supplies even more money into their economy to invest in their infrastructure needs and wants, and once they re-acquire the taste, the people will make themselves heard and seen, just like 1958-59. Even Cubans on the stateside of the diaspora are softening on this issue. More support opening up travel than oppose it these days.

We can open the quid pro quo ourselves with just this little tidbit, and I believe times have changed enough to allow a tangible negotiation with Raul's administration w/regards to the human rights issues that will be the focal point for arguments against ending the embargo. Carrot and stick works here for me because both the carrot and the stick are made of money this time. Tourism is already a $2 billion/yr industry for the island, and if you open it up......watch out! Open up travel, get some free speech concessions and political dissidents released from prison. Get them released, then loosen some regs on US investment, such as telecom industries that wire up the damn island to the web and really open up everyone's eyes to what goes down in the rest of the world. Open their eyes to their potential and the populace will want more. You see where this is going. Its a proven-to-be-effective methodology for bringing down communism.

We should start the process ourselves and sooner rather than later. It's a unique opprtunity, and we can turn 'em back to our "side" in a beneficient manner. If we don't, the Cubans will have to look elsewhere for the business partners they're looking for, and believe me......China and Venezuela are more than willing to keep filling the void. Its one of the reasons I'm leaning towards Barry O......his "kum-ba-ya" rhetoric actually resonates quite well with me related to this particular issue.

Cuba has a wondrous history, a vibrant and talent-rich culture, kick-ass weather, and one hell of a baseball team.......lets integrate them instead of treating them like some banjo banana republic, and I think we'll all be better, in some manner, for the effort.

Long post......have a day.........d:SIB c
 
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