Cuse/Tex: Digger's interesting observation

[pt1gard]

just heard Digger say something worth pondering ...

Cuses 2-3 match-up/spread out D has caused fits to Okie St and OU, and he said this is b/c Big 12 is a MAN2MAN conf ... so he thinx Texas will have same probs ...

just passing it along, being a coach it is something to think about--yet Tex will have a week to prepare, but how you simulate a good zone isnt easy

take care, gregg

 

[michaeljbird]

He does make a valid point. I do believe if TJ Ford can penetrate the zone and kick the ball out to the perimeter,(which I think he will),it's just a matter of hitting the open 3 or not.If Texas has the shooting performance they did today,it's light's out.Who know's if they will or not. To me the biggest difference may come down to Syracuse matching up in the front court well.Texas has some serious bulk advantage,and I don't think the Cuse match-up very well in that respect.The biggest key for Texas today was they had only 4 turnover's( I think that's right).If they match that again,it will be a long night for the Orange.........men that is

 

[gman2]

sometimes, when we look at games and reasons why a certain result happens, or try to predict what MIGHT happen in an upcoming game- we sometimes overanalyze to an extent.

simply put, oklahoma state and oklahoma state are two teams that could have scoring issues vs a team of manequins out there on defense. those two teams are great defensively, but is it really a surprise when okie and osu go through scoring droughts?

thats NOT to take away from the effectiveness of the syracuse 2-3 zone.

but when your "sample" consists of two offensively-challenged teams, your perspective is gonna come out a little skewed.

if syracuse had played kansas or mizzou or someone like that, and shut them down- then id be more willing to give the "big 12 man-to-man conference theory" more credibility.

 

[michaeljbird]

Well said G

 

[maverick2112]

After watching and wagering on OSU and Okla this year I noticed exactly this. They both play stellar defense but these teams were notorious for going on long scoring droughts(sp)..............2 that come to mind were when OSU was kicking the shit out of Tex Tech then went like 12 minutes with 4 points............then Oky was up big against Texas the second game and went forever without a bucket then had like an 8 pt lead with like 3 minutes left and then scored like 3 pts the rest of the game.

 

[HeavyHitter]

hey mav, what about the mizzou/ok debacle in big 12 tourney...i know what you mean

 

[Felonious Monk]

Something else to ponder: 'Cuse is 0-2 vs. UConn this year, losing by 13 and 14. The Huskies were able to successfully penetrate the zone with good guard play and won with very balance scoring. UConn has a great penetrating guard, and we have an even better one.

Kelvin Sampson said it best when he pointed out that TJ is the type of guard that can and will penetrate the zone. On the other hand, that's not the game of either White or Price.

Good ESPN read

 

[trump tight]

I was absolutely sickened by Kelvin's coaching, or lack thereof. It was almost like they threw their hands up in the first half. Price can dribble penetrate, possibly not as good as Ford, but Why not try?!? It was embarassing watching the confusion out on the floor. I also think that OU came out scaredkurby. At any rate, if Barnes is worth his salt, he'll take this week, and practice everyday against that zone, and practice on PENETRATING! I'm not sure that tejas has the same sort of success from outside of the arc. That zone is more difficult than it looks. Those guys are so tall and long, that they fill those voids. How many times did you see OU passing the ball right to a cuseman, or throwing wild passes out of bounds? They are quick and long. I think it'll be a great game. Looking forward to it. Congrats to tejas and the juice for great run.

 

[Dizzayton]

WAIT A MINUTE MONK

WAIT A MINUTE MONK

BIG EAST FANs know that other big east teams adapt well to the zone and know how to pick it apart. NOBODY is better than Jim Calhoun at picking apart the zone, he has owned Syracuse over the years and he coaches his players to attack the zone and the players see it often and therefore know how to implement Calhouns flawless gameplan. That is the main reason UCONN beat syracuse so easily this year, plus UCONN shot lights out and syracuse played horrible on offense. Does texas have a great guard who can penetrate? YES. But more importantly will they be able to consistently pick apart the zone and knock down threes once the game tips? That remains to be seen.

 

[Felonious Monk]

Agreed. I'm sure Barnes will have the troops watching nothing but Syracuse-UConn tapes this week.

I'm really worried about Carmelo Anthony. We'll most likely put Ivey on him but he gives up around 5 inches in height. We have to deny him the ball when he tries to post up down low. He'll get his points but Anthony has shown the tendency to put up bad shots against pesky defenders. It's going to be another shootout.

 

[jr11]

my take on this is that tjford can penetrate this zone. ou just seemed to pass it around the perimeter. having had a full college scholarship myself and a point guard, one knows you have to split the gaps and tj can do that. the question will be whether or not they can it shots. my concern is that texas seems to play straight up d for the most part and you can't do that with anthony or he will score easily. if that is the case, fouls will play a pivotal role with texas (thomas) and cuse might have an advantage going to line often. people will say that the cuse are young and might be nervous, well texas is in uncharted water too.

i have special interest in texas because i will win my bracket poll as i am the only one that has them winning it all.

jr11

 

[greed]

About the defensive end

About the defensive end

The Texas offense will not be the problem. There lack of defense in the post could kill them against the orangemen. No shot blockers for the Longhorns. Michigan States big men seem to score at will against them. These four teams in the finals are all pretty evenly matched each has noticable weaknesses. Marquette had problems with teams with quick guards. Kansas has a lack of depth and outside shooting. Texas has defensive problems in the post. Syracuse lack of leadership. Glta in the tournament. Looking at taking the dogs myself.

 

[pt1gard]

my take after reading this thread

my take after reading this thread

and Diggers two cents is ...

a match-up zone, as in a man 2 man D, is only as good as the personel ...

Cuse has been tuff with it when they had quality players manning their spots thru the years, but the D itself is no better than anything else, unless you have 2 or less shooters IMO (this is what Ive seen thru the year as a coach and fan) then U will will struggle to score against any zone most nites ...

the great matchup zones i have seen were Jud Heathcoate's at MSU with Magic, Tarks amoebas at UNLV, and of course Chaney's at temple (sorry if Im missing any) ...

some coaches def. coach the crap out of it and are comfortable playing zones and instill the concept into their kids like Willy Loman selling Snapple in the Gobi ...

one other factor that manifests, when a team begins to get mind-F*cked like Okie did, the shots become even more important and they press and then the Zone becomes a monster

I like one of the dogs to win SU, im laying low so now these bets will win hehe

gl, gregg

 

[Unicorn]

The key to Cuse's zone has already been mentioned. A team must penetrate, and shoot well from the outside to win. I thought Hollis Price and Q. White, for that matter, were way to passive in attacking Cuse's zone. Withouting overstating it too much, it's really pretty easy. If Texas' guards go after Cuse's zone and are able to make some open looks on kickouts and transition jumpers, the paint will open up for some easier buckets and Texas will win. If not, it will be another ugly, Syracuse victory.

 

[goomrrmk]

Cuse/Tex: Digger

Cuse/Tex: Digger

One piece of info that won't hurt Texas preparations is that Rick Barnes was coach at Providence. He has seen the zone and I'm sure he will have his team as ready as possible.

 

[twofingers]

I believe in 97 Kansas was a highly powered, highly ranked, run and gun team , playing a syracuse team (far less talented then this team) in elite eight. Boehiem zone caused them fits and Cuse rolled to easy win.

Missouri was scoring in bunches when they came into Dome early this year and zone caused them fits. Agree that Ok and Ok St are offensively challenged but don't short change SU's zone either.

McNeil's sudden understanding of the zone is the biggest reason SU has gone on such a run IMHO. earlier in season he was constantly out of position which led to quick fouls. Notice how much better he is moving in the zone.

Texas has a better chance of solving zone because of Ford but texas shooters still have to drain the shots.

 

[twofingers]

Barnes had some good teams at Providence and had no success vs SU. think he was 3-10 if I recall.