Does college football need Notre Dame?

Scott4USC

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I was flipping through the boards and hit on a post by a bunch of whining domer fans that the world will come to an end if they are forced to give up their independence and join a conference. Apparently several hundred drunk irish faithfull signed a petition demanding tha ND change course or their financial support will dry up. These domers act as if it is their birth right to be a special icon for college football. To watch them squirm in their misery does provide me with a certain amount of satisfaction. They complain about their admission standards even more than I complain about SC's. Although Sc probably has a harder time keeping kids in school and ND has a tougher time gaining admission in the first place. So I ask the board, will college football survive the downward spiral of a once great and proud yet arogant tradition? Domers don't seem to think so.

*I did not write this but thought it was an interesting topic :)
 
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Scott4USC

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Text of ND letter

Sent to the ND BOT. Originated and signed by over 400 alums from NDNation.com

To: Trustees, University of Notre Dame

We are writing this letter because we believe that the pronounced and persistent deterioration of the Notre Dame football program requires a concerted response from concerned alumni. We are appealing to you, the members of the Board of Trustees, because you bear the ultimate responsibility for protecting Notre Dame's traditions and maintaining the University's place as an icon of American culture. Part of that responsibility is to take the necessary steps to restore the excellence of the football program.

Our concern is that the importance of Notre Dame football as a source of spirit, pride, and energy for students and alumni is no longer valued among those who are currently in positions of leadership. Notre Dame football provides a legacy that has inspired millions, from aspiring students to admiring subway alumni. It is the basis of a tradition that crosses generations to bind alumni to one another and to the University. We fear that through the years of neglect this bond is eroding to the point that current and future generations will lose their rightful link to our University's storied past.

Catholic identity, academic excellence, and championship football are the three pillars on which the University was built. Remove any one of these pillars, and Notre Dame ceases to hold its unique place among American universities. If the football program continutes to wither, the University will lapse into a crisis of identity, destined to remain perpetually eclipsed by ill-chosen "aspirational peers."

We are mindful that the last decade has seen Notre Dame make significant advancements in such areas as facilities, overall academics and non-football athletics. These are laudable achievements. It is dismaying to us, however, that the same Board of Trustees that has overseen so much positive development could remain unmoved in the face of the precipitous decline of the institution that has done so much to elevate the visibility and reputation of Notre Dame.

Under your watch and that of your immediate predecessors, those whom you have entrusted with the day-to-day management of football have proven incapable of running it in a manner worthy of its heritage. Their record of mismanagement is evidenced by a series of mediocre and poorly vetted coaching hires, the subordination of winning to revenue generation, a reluctance to reinvest in the program, NCAA probation, and an alarming transfer rate among scholarship players. On the field Notre Dame has suffered an unprecedented three losing seasons in the past five years and stands on the verge of losing its all-time leader status in winning percentage. Finally, the subtle campaign by the Athletic Department to promote conference affiliation in football is perhaps the most disturbing indication that the current leadership's priorities are misplaced.

Conference membership was never a serious topic from 1940-19993 when Notre Dame was enjoying football success on a regular basis. For the vast majority of alumni, abandoning independence is tantamount to a declaration of surrender by an administration that is unable to address the underlying weaknesses in the program. It would be a grave mistake to assume that those alumni would remain passive and compliant if this option were presented as a fait accompli. Such a decision would be met with intense resistance and evoke various methods of protest, including withheld financial support.


That Notre Dame's independence is even subject to negotiaiton betrays the current athletic administration's mindset that the purpose of the football program is to generate revenue. Rather than address the program's present woes, they prefer to come up with stratagems that exploit Notre Dame's storied past. Squeezing revenues from a struggling brand is not a substitute for rebuilding an elite football program. When the football team is strong, ample revenues and a commanding post-season bowl position have always followed. Lamentations that recent changes in BCS selection criteria have made it tougher for Notre Dame fail to address the inescapable truth that Fighting Irish squads in 1998, 2000 and 2002 did not deserve to play in first tier bowl games.

Our current Athletic Director acknowledged football's importance when he stated recently, "Football is the emotional engine that drives Notre Dame." Unfortunately, he appears incapable of reversing its decline. Lip service will not suffice. Recycling past glory will not mask current shortcomings. Each passing year has rendered the challenge of restoring Notre Dame football exponentially more difficult.

This is not a call to fire Tyrone Willingham. Coach Willingham is a fine leader who represents Notre Dame well, but he has yet to demonstrate the high level of competence that this demanding job requires. Although we continue to support him and hope he succeeds, his performance, marked by unprecedented and humiliating defeats, deficiencies within his coaching staff, and his inconsistent record as a head coach, indicates that he may not. Absent significant progress in 2004, a coaching change will become necessary.

We submit three concrete proposals that would lay the foundation for the resurrection of the football program:

First, the Athletic Director should be given specific expectations and timetables for restoring the football program. The program's status should be the primary basis for evaluating the performance of the Athletic Director without regard to whatever success Notre Dame may acheive in its non-football athletic programs. Thus, the organizaitonal structure of the Athletic Department should reflect the importance of football versus other sports. Responsibilities for other sports should be delegated to enable the Athletic Director to devote appropriate attention to football.

Second, the process of identifying, vetting and recruiting coaching candidates must be reworked. The Athletic Director must have unfettered authority to select coaches who possess the approriate football knowledge, integrity, professionalism and acumen, subject only to approval by the Athletic Affairs Committee of the Board of Trustees. A broad based selection committee with conflicting agendas, such as the one that produced George O'Leary and Tyrone Willingham, is ineffective and unaccountable. That process should never be repeated.

Third, there is a need for organizational change at Notre Dame such that financial, administrative, and athletic pursuits should be entrusted to persons qualified and experienced in the management of such matters. This could be accomplished by the appointment of a lay person to the currrently vacant Executive VP position. Meanwhile, the University's academic and spiritual mission would remain under the auspices of the traditional CSC leadership via the President's office.

We encourage you to implement this model early in 2004.

We regret the football program has declined to the level that required us to submit this letter, but we fear our silence may be intepreted as tolerance. As alumni who understand football's irreplaceable contribution to Notre Dame's greatness, we could not remain idle as the University's vital third pillar crumbled. We ask you as Trustees to fulfill your resonsibilities in this area.
 

bbk

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And now Scott has even sunk the lowest of all lows. I agree what a complete jerk.
 

Scott4USC

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What a bunch of worthless replies. None of you add anything to this forum with posts like that. I guess you all enjoy acting like juvenile kids. :nooo:
 

Blackman

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Scott4USC said:
Text of ND letter



We are mindful that the last decade has seen Notre Dame make significant advancements in such areas as facilities, overall academics and non-football athletics.

And the only reason that these teams are flourishing is because of Notre Dame football. If it wasn't for the revenue from that NBC contract and all of the merchandise sold b that team, the no major sports would be greatly underfunded. If it wasn't for the money coming in via the football team, the womens swim team probably would have less scholarships, poor facilties and would not be a dominant team in the Big East. Without all that money coming in, and trickling down to the other teams, ND sports as a whole would decline.

Here's my take - if NBC or any other network is willing to invest millions in ND football to be able to show there home games every year, they'd be foolish to join a conference. Why share the pie when you can have it all to yourself? Teams go through slumps, and I think that the poor recruiting as of late is problematic, but this ship will be turned around. Either that or the old Notre Dame vs Army rivalry can be rekindled, with an all new and much less glamorous title at stake (the undisputed title as my favorite fade) :tongue.
 

Scott4USC

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Blackman

Thanks for contributing a quality post. I agree with you, football generally funds the whole athletic department.

if NBC or any other network is willing to invest millions in ND football to be able to show there home games every year, they'd be foolish to join a conference. Why share the pie when you can have it all to yourself?

The problem for ND not joining a conference is if they do not make a major bowl, they recieve no money. Been a while since ND made it to a major bowl and they be lucky to make one next year. So they might be another year without bowl money. So that is the benefit of joining a conference==sharing of money. "Could" be a while before ND becomes a BCS team again.

Can ND still could keep the NBC contract if they join a conference? Maybe they can negotiate that in. I think ND should join the Big 10. There are currently 11 teams in the Big 10 so they could make it 12 and even add a championship game. Seems like the trend now in college football. Also the Big 10 plays ND style football so it would be an easier transition for them and ND is located in Big 10 country.

Big 10 fans, would you want ND to join your conference? They def. would bring a lot to the table. Academics, exposure, tradition, etc...

There is NO EXCUSE for TY not to have a top 10 recruiting class at ND. NO EXCUSE. There is so much to sell to a recruit.
 

Blackman

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I am under the impression that if ND was to join a conference they would have to share the NBC money - that is why they are so hesitant. That is like getting big time bowl money every year regardless of performance. Plus when they do make a decent bowl, that's another nice payday that goes strictly in there pocket. That is what I was talking about by not having to share the pie.


I'd have to think that the Big Ten would love to get Notre Dame, they fit perfectly in regards to academic and reputation. Also, I am sure that the Big Ten schools wouldn't mind getting a cut of that network TV contract, cause even if ND somehow kept the NBC money, any team facing ND on the road would be guarenteed a national tv game and the revenue that goes with it.

If they were to join, the Big Ten makes the most sense. Heard a few rumors of the ACC, and while they would be alright for football I guess, it really doesn't make sense for the whole athletic department. Do you think that Florida St wants to travel their womens swim team up to South Bend during the week for a meet? Probably not.
 

BobbyBlueChip

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The only way that ND goes to a conference is if the NCAA pressures them to do so by shutting them out of the BCS. And I'm not sure why they don't. To pander to ND at the expense of everyone else is ridiculous. I'd like them in the Big East to give the conference legitiimacy and it would give them some time to get their program turned around much like Miami did.

Only 16 more victories for USC and then this rivalry won't be so one-sided. USC was about as competitive as Navy in the late eighties/early nineties.
 

Scott4USC

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BobbyBlueChip
Only 16 more victories for USC and then this rivalry won't be so one-sided. USC was about as competitive as Navy in the late eighties/early nineties.

Very true ND had USC # in the 80/90's. Its payback time. Has ND ever beat USC by 31pts in consecutive years? ND did beat USC in the 80/90;s but not like this. Most ND fans now chalk up a loss to USC coming into the season. Ouch!

W 45-14
W 44-13 @ND
 

Skipper

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This might be the dumbest thread you have ever started!!

I can't stand Notre Dame, but the fact is they are great for college football. Remember the film "Rudy"? One of the greatest sports movies ever made IMO. Again, I can't stand ND, but I got chills when he runs out on that field. There are no movies about the importance of running out on USC's field as there are none about running through the T with my Vols.

Point is, think before you post stupid sh*t like you did here. You stupid, stupid boy.:nono:
 

BobbyBlueChip

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Michigan has the same jealousy for Notre Dame as USC does.

Both Michigan and USC fans like to think that they are the most pompous fans in the nation, but they both fall well short when it comes to being the biggest homers.

The University of Our Mother!! Go Irish!!

God, Country, Notre Dame!!

And, Scott, we count Michigan State as a loss every year, too, so it's not that big of a deal. Only 3 short year's until USC's probation :)
 

Scott4USC

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You people are unbelievable. I never really even voiced my opinion on this subject. I posted this thread because I thought it was an interesting topic.

Will college football survive the downward spiral of a once great and proud yet arogant tradition?

Why would this be even considered the dumbest thread I have ever started???

That is a valid question. I do think college football can survive without ND. Wasn't last season a great year for college football? ND did not do well. I know ND is a powerhouse in college football and I respect the program. I would say ND is the #1 all time college football program. ND fans think that college football cannot survive without them. If you think they are right, cool. If not, thats fine too. Plain and simple, this was a thread for discussion. You people are unbelievable.

Am I jealous of ND? NO, USC has their own tradition that I am very proud of. Do I think USC fans are arrogant just like ND fans? Yeah i guess. Am I mad that ND has their own TV rights? I do not really care. I enjoy watching their games so I guess not. I do hate fox sports (where USC is mostly televised). USC is more wealthy than ND so money is not an issue. Last year USC was the #1 university in recieving private donations. Yep, USC beat out Harvard (who was #2). So no need to be jealous of the money ND makes.

I hope USC does not go on probation in the next 3 years. But that "could" explain why USC had 8 5-star recruits in one class. That is sick. I think Carroll runs a clean program. He works harder than any coach in the nation so he deserves the stellar results.

Nice post Skipper. I agree RUDY is a great sports movie. I would def. put these 3 movies ahead of RUDY for all time greatest sports movies. Plus they exaggerated the RUDY story big time. I heard the real life story was hardly nothing like the movie.

#1 Pride of the Yankees
#2 Hoosiers
#3 The Natural
 

BobbyBlueChip

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I hope USC does not go on probation in the next 3 years. But that "could" explain why USC had 8 5-star recruits in one class. That is sick. I think Carroll runs a clean program. He works harder than any coach in the nation so he deserves the stellar results.

:mj07: It could explain it :mj07:
 
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