you did your time on acitve duty and served it fully. Being pulled back from the IRR gives you that opportunity.
Flip - Flop - Flip - Flop - Flip - Flop
- Thread starter Scott4USC
- Start date
hellah10again said:
I think this is where you said you dont get paid.
something about not agetting a check?
per Edward
"Your comments are very welcome. You know, if you came back from Iraq and posted pro-war positions on this board and those of us who realize what this war is all about (Haliburton, Bush re-election, etc.) continued to make our anti-war statements, we would be branded as traitors, putting our soldiers in danger, unamerican, etc. You would be the hero among guys like Wayne, Freeze, Blitz, Chanman, Raymond, Saint, Scott, etc. "
and I would assume from your prior post Edward that your hero's are the people in the town of Canada wanting to put up monument for deserters"
I live with my convictions--- you live with yours.
Won't comment on rest of this thread as I may say something I would later regret.
"Your comments are very welcome. You know, if you came back from Iraq and posted pro-war positions on this board and those of us who realize what this war is all about (Haliburton, Bush re-election, etc.) continued to make our anti-war statements, we would be branded as traitors, putting our soldiers in danger, unamerican, etc. You would be the hero among guys like Wayne, Freeze, Blitz, Chanman, Raymond, Saint, Scott, etc. "
and I would assume from your prior post Edward that your hero's are the people in the town of Canada wanting to put up monument for deserters"
I live with my convictions--- you live with yours.
Won't comment on rest of this thread as I may say something I would later regret.
Wayne:
Fighting two wars 40 years apart in order that corporate america can expand its markets may be your conviction but it certainly isn't mine. Over 50,000 Americans were killed in Viet Nam and so far over 1,000 Americans have been killed and over 7,000 wounded (even Kerry type wounds count) in Iraq. Yet the killers of 9-11 go free.
I mean if these are your priorities and convictions, God bless you. Viet Nam was fought for the stated reason of stopping the spread of communism. Iraq is being fought for the stated reason of 1) stopping weapons of mass destruction, 2) disobedience of UN orders, 3) getting rid of a bad guy, and 4) whatever the reason du jure will be asserted today by this administration. You know, flip/flop.
I have no problem with those who risk losing their citizenship to avoid fighting wars wherein the ulitimate goal is to provide Cheney with a nice 401k. Those who went to Canada in the 60's and those, like Hellah, who are disillusioned with Iraq are in many ways courageous for going against the norm and what would be the easier decision to go lkill innocent people for the sake of corporate america.
I don't know if I would go so far as to put up a monument to those who chose not to fight in Viet Nam. However, I do not condemn them either. I believe they made a difficult choice. History seems to have proven that they made the right choice.
That is of course, Wayne, unless you believe the US involvement in Viet Nam was the right thing to do. I know for some psychotic reasoning on your part that you believe the US invasion of Iraq causing the deaths of some 30,000 people the right thing to do. But how bout Viet Nam?
A waste of precious lives for the sake of the haves. Historically been done over and over again. Those who support Bush fall into one of two catagories: wealthy (greedy) or plain old stupid. Funny that most thinking people, yes Wayne, intellectuals, the ones Bush doesn't trust, back Kerry.
Brand me an intellectual. I can take the heat.
Eddie
Fighting two wars 40 years apart in order that corporate america can expand its markets may be your conviction but it certainly isn't mine. Over 50,000 Americans were killed in Viet Nam and so far over 1,000 Americans have been killed and over 7,000 wounded (even Kerry type wounds count) in Iraq. Yet the killers of 9-11 go free.
I mean if these are your priorities and convictions, God bless you. Viet Nam was fought for the stated reason of stopping the spread of communism. Iraq is being fought for the stated reason of 1) stopping weapons of mass destruction, 2) disobedience of UN orders, 3) getting rid of a bad guy, and 4) whatever the reason du jure will be asserted today by this administration. You know, flip/flop.
I have no problem with those who risk losing their citizenship to avoid fighting wars wherein the ulitimate goal is to provide Cheney with a nice 401k. Those who went to Canada in the 60's and those, like Hellah, who are disillusioned with Iraq are in many ways courageous for going against the norm and what would be the easier decision to go lkill innocent people for the sake of corporate america.
I don't know if I would go so far as to put up a monument to those who chose not to fight in Viet Nam. However, I do not condemn them either. I believe they made a difficult choice. History seems to have proven that they made the right choice.
That is of course, Wayne, unless you believe the US involvement in Viet Nam was the right thing to do. I know for some psychotic reasoning on your part that you believe the US invasion of Iraq causing the deaths of some 30,000 people the right thing to do. But how bout Viet Nam?
A waste of precious lives for the sake of the haves. Historically been done over and over again. Those who support Bush fall into one of two catagories: wealthy (greedy) or plain old stupid. Funny that most thinking people, yes Wayne, intellectuals, the ones Bush doesn't trust, back Kerry.
Brand me an intellectual. I can take the heat.
Eddie
No Edward I would not say Viet Nam war was the right thing to do and I think I have made that statement many times before--my beef has always been how the soilders were treated and portayed when they returned. I can not remember but a rare few over there who commented that we were there for the right cause.Most were there because they because they were drafted or asked to serve there by their country. They made the bet of bad situation and tried get themselves and commrades back home the best they could.There were many decisions inside the war that soilders could make no sense of either--such as spending days and lives taking a hill only to leave it once mission was accomplished.
With that being said I must say this--even though we disagreed and knew what was coming the thought of "let all refuse to do it" never entered our mind. Despite what many viewed wrong decisions ,as soilders it is not feasible to think or act independently without jeopardizing the lives of your commrades or function as an army. It is difficult to understand for many so you will just have to trust me. People may think what they like but you can trust me on this also. Those that chose to refuse to go because they thought it was an "unjust war" would have avoided the war whether they deemed it just or not --almost to the man. It is not the war that they could not confront but rather their personal fears.I say this because most that served thought same thing but the pride of serving ones country trumped the fear of running from the same.
Personally I sure as hell was not looking forward to it but to refuse would have been so shameful in light of my father and others serving during WW2 the thought never occurred to me---and my volunteering to extend duty past the one year required was not because I was some gung ho macho man but solely because I wanted out of army as soon as possible and not have to go back to states and shine boots-salute ect.
I will say if I knew what I do now to stay in for 20 years and retire would have been a definate consideration.
I will also say my time in service had more positive impact on my life then all schooling ect combined. I went in a smartass -no it all asshole and came out with a different view on life.
The big difference in this war is while Viet Nam outcome meant squat and would have had no bearing on America had we won or lost---Iraq and Afgan will have tremendous outcome on America as well as rest of world. If these jokers with their attitudes are ignored there will come a day in near future when the world will pay dearly.
With that being said I must say this--even though we disagreed and knew what was coming the thought of "let all refuse to do it" never entered our mind. Despite what many viewed wrong decisions ,as soilders it is not feasible to think or act independently without jeopardizing the lives of your commrades or function as an army. It is difficult to understand for many so you will just have to trust me. People may think what they like but you can trust me on this also. Those that chose to refuse to go because they thought it was an "unjust war" would have avoided the war whether they deemed it just or not --almost to the man. It is not the war that they could not confront but rather their personal fears.I say this because most that served thought same thing but the pride of serving ones country trumped the fear of running from the same.
Personally I sure as hell was not looking forward to it but to refuse would have been so shameful in light of my father and others serving during WW2 the thought never occurred to me---and my volunteering to extend duty past the one year required was not because I was some gung ho macho man but solely because I wanted out of army as soon as possible and not have to go back to states and shine boots-salute ect.
I will say if I knew what I do now to stay in for 20 years and retire would have been a definate consideration.
I will also say my time in service had more positive impact on my life then all schooling ect combined. I went in a smartass -no it all asshole and came out with a different view on life.
The big difference in this war is while Viet Nam outcome meant squat and would have had no bearing on America had we won or lost---Iraq and Afgan will have tremendous outcome on America as well as rest of world. If these jokers with their attitudes are ignored there will come a day in near future when the world will pay dearly.
Yes Wayne, but if you listen to your republican ancestors, the Viet Nam war did matter. We had to stop the spread of communism. Similarly, the current republicans have transposed this war into a war against terrorism when in reality its a war for oil and new markets.
History will tell us if this unilateral invasion of another soverign country will have any outcome on America. So far, most of the world hates our government and more terrorists have been created. To that extent I agree with you that this war will have an affect on America. A very negative one.
Eddie
History will tell us if this unilateral invasion of another soverign country will have any outcome on America. So far, most of the world hates our government and more terrorists have been created. To that extent I agree with you that this war will have an affect on America. A very negative one.
Eddie
