"Forget gun control!! All we need is a "good guy" with a gun

ChrryBlstr

Registered User
Forum Member
Feb 11, 2002
7,407
54
48
Hoosier country
Except, ooops....

Texas police shoot man who disarmed possible church shooter


Police in Amarillo shot an innocent man who helped foil a possible church shooting.

The shooting happened shortly after 9 a.m. Feb. 14 at the Faith City Mission, a faith-based outreach organization. Police said Joshua Len Jones, 35, of Amarillo, barged into a church building at Faith City Mission, pulled out a gun and was holding about 100 congregants and church staff hostage.

In the time between when police were dispatched and when officers arrived, a handful of churchgoers wrestled Jones to the ground. One of the congregants was able to grab Jones' gun.

Officers entered the building and saw the churchgoer holding the gun and opened fire, according to the Amarillo Police Department. The churchgoer was hospitalized in stable condition.

The victim, who spoke to ABC 7 Amarillo, has since been released and told the station he would do it all over again despite being shot by police.

"There were other people there," Tony Garces said. "I just took the gun away from him. I got shot. I got the bad part. It's life."


Now what could possibly go wrong with arming educators?!! lol

Peace! :)

https://m.chron.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/Texas-police-shoot-man-who-disarmed-possible-12704202.php
 

Sportsaholic

Jack's Mentor
Forum Member
Jan 18, 2000
32,345
314
0
63
Crustacean Nation
Now what could possibly go wrong with arming educators?!! lol

Peace! :)

https://m.chron.com/news/houston-te...-shoot-man-who-disarmed-possible-12704202.php



Geez, let's see......The educators would be trained, off duty officers not Sally the Milk Lady packing a .38 with a pack of cigs rolled up in her tee shirt.....

I would assume they would have radios to communicate with responding officers....Responding officers would know there is someone on scene that is trained to work with them....

You just had coaches/teachers throw their bodies into the line of fire to protect the students, if just one of them was trained and willing to be armed the outcome "may" have been different....

Again these would be trained off duty officers, no different than the officers responding minutes away.....Is this the perfect scenario, no but it's a start until someone comes up with a better solution......

If parents disagree, homeschool or go to a district that doesn't have armed teachers.....


:0008
 

Sportsaholic

Jack's Mentor
Forum Member
Jan 18, 2000
32,345
314
0
63
Crustacean Nation
In both of these situations, if no one had a gun, no one would have been shot.


Personally I don't need to own a gun, but I highly doubt you'll ever see banning of firearms.....

Each state need to devise a plan that works best for them to try and keep their schools safe, if it's non-carry so be it.....It was refreshing to see the Governor at least tossing around ideas, I wasn't aware 9 states already have trained/armed staff at schools.....


:0008
 

ChrryBlstr

Registered User
Forum Member
Feb 11, 2002
7,407
54
48
Hoosier country
Geez, let's see......The educators would be trained, off duty officers not Sally the Milk Lady packing a .38 with a pack of cigs rolled up in her tee shirt.....

I would assume they would have radios to communicate with responding officers....Responding officers would know there is someone on scene that is trained to work with them....

You just had coaches/teachers throw their bodies into the line of fire to protect the students, if just one of them was trained and willing to be armed the outcome "may" have been different....

Again these would be trained off duty officers, no different than the officers responding minutes away.....Is this the perfect scenario, no but it's a start until someone comes up with a better solution......

If parents disagree, homeschool or go to a district that doesn't have armed teachers.....


:0008

Sure. Let's suppose that some of the educators are trained and become as accurate at taking down active/live shooters as NYPD's best. And let's be generous and say they're even better than New York's finest at a 20% success rate. Where do the 80% of the inaccurate bullets fired go?

And what if, say, they never become as good as the cops because, you know, it's not in their DNA nor is it their profession of choice. Are you willing to arm someone with a 5% accuracy rate and HOPE that they simply don't add to the death toll of innocent students? Or should they likewise be armed with semi-automatics to even the odds?

OR, are you implying that individuals should be made educators because they are "trained, off duty officers"? OR are you merely asking for more armed and trained personnel to patrol the school?

Regardless, the more sensible and "better solution" would be to adopt the exact same laws and restrictions as what many other western democracies seem to have effectively implemented beforehand. Seamlessly. But, then again....

Peace! :)
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,561
314
83
Victory Lane
see the comic in jacks thread in general


stop selling assault rifles is all that needs to be done.


Yeh but the criminals will have them . buy on street. Yeh but they will cost them 20 grand.


eventually it will work out.
 

Sportsaholic

Jack's Mentor
Forum Member
Jan 18, 2000
32,345
314
0
63
Crustacean Nation
Regardless, the more sensible and "better solution" would be to adopt the exact same laws and restrictions as what many other western democracies seem to have effectively implemented beforehand. Seamlessly. But, then again....

Peace! :)


Sounds great, I'm sold.....Let us all know when "you've" accomplished this feat......:0008
 

ChrryBlstr

Registered User
Forum Member
Feb 11, 2002
7,407
54
48
Hoosier country
Sounds great, I'm sold.....Let us all know when "you've" accomplished this feat......:0008

It may take years, but all meaningful social change does. Civil rights is a continuing process, and the Vietnam War didn't end overnight. But, these young people should be a source of hope.

Lingis believes that hope 'is a kind of birth' wherein it is born 'in spite of what went before'(Zournazi, 2002, 24) and that political hope is 'always somehow utopian; it is a hope that we will set up a better world and set it up to endure. That must be true of every kind of political hope: that the situation could be different for good' (Zournazi, 2002, 38).

Peace! :)
 

ChrryBlstr

Registered User
Forum Member
Feb 11, 2002
7,407
54
48
Hoosier country
Also, this....

Peace! :)

?It?s nothing like the movies?: Military vet with SWAT training expertly dismantles Trump?s plan to arm teachers

SNBC analyst and former Naval intelligence officer Malcolm Nance vividly explained why President Donald Trump?s suggestion to arm teachers was so dangerous.

Nance appeared Monday on ?MSNBC Live,? where he told host Stephanie Ruhle that specialized military training was required to override survival instincts ? and even that didn?t always work.

?You have to be trained to want to get up and go into fire, that?s what the armed forces does for you,? Nance said. ?I went through SWAT officer training when I got out of the military, and the first thing they do is they teach you is to really lock up and then move in on a target. That?s what active shooter training is for in law enforcement. But if you?re not really trained, you?re not proficient, it?s not like in the movies. The movies have nothing to do with reality. You?re putting yourself where you can be killed.?

Ruhle pointed out that mass shooters frequently used military-style firearms to carry out massacres, which would put teachers armed with concealed weapons at a distinct disadvantage.

?We have a lot of people going on, you know, what they think they see in the movies,? Nance said. ?If you?ve got a handgun and that?s all the tool you have, you have to be extremely well trained to go out and engage someone who has a fully automatic or semiautomatic weapon.?

He said movies did not adequately depict what a real firefight would be like.

?Depending on the distance that you?re away, civilians don?t understand, in close quarters, the first thing you have to experience is the explosive sound of the weapon going off ? not yours, the shooter?s,? Nance said. ?It practically deafens you in an urban environment, inside a school building or something like that. It?s not like in the movies, where can you hear. It?s like somebody stabbing your ear a knife. If you can get past that and still move you?ll be conducting a gun battle, a firefight with people running back and forth in front of you. It?s just ? unless you?re very skilled soldier or a police officer who has already been through that, through simulation or an actual incident, you cannot even start to predict the effect. ?

Even if the teacher managed to survive a firefight with a shooter armed with a high-powered rifle, they?d face danger once law enforcement arrived.

?If you are a teacher who thinks you?re doing a defensive, you know, pose and protect a student, law enforcement will just assume you?re the shooter,? Nance said. ?If we start introducing five, 10 guns into that school, the complexity of target identification and clearance and knowing whether that individual is safe or whether they?re actually complicit and waiting for you to turn your back, it?s absolutely mind-boggling. Law enforcement will go the default ? which is to shoot the person with the gun.?

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/nothing-like-movies-military-vet-swat-training-expertly-dismantles-trumps-plan-arm-teachers/
 

yyz

Under .500
Forum Member
Mar 16, 2000
43,887
2,474
113
On the course!
Also, this....

Peace! :)

?It?s nothing like the movies?: Military vet with SWAT training expertly dismantles Trump?s plan to arm teachers

SNBC analyst and former Naval intelligence officer Malcolm Nance vividly explained why President Donald Trump?s suggestion to arm teachers was so dangerous.

Nance appeared Monday on ?MSNBC Live,? where he told host Stephanie Ruhle that specialized military training was required to override survival instincts ? and even that didn?t always work.

?You have to be trained to want to get up and go into fire, that?s what the armed forces does for you,? Nance said. ?I went through SWAT officer training when I got out of the military, and the first thing they do is they teach you is to really lock up and then move in on a target. That?s what active shooter training is for in law enforcement. But if you?re not really trained, you?re not proficient, it?s not like in the movies. The movies have nothing to do with reality. You?re putting yourself where you can be killed.?

Ruhle pointed out that mass shooters frequently used military-style firearms to carry out massacres, which would put teachers armed with concealed weapons at a distinct disadvantage.

?We have a lot of people going on, you know, what they think they see in the movies,? Nance said. ?If you?ve got a handgun and that?s all the tool you have, you have to be extremely well trained to go out and engage someone who has a fully automatic or semiautomatic weapon.?

He said movies did not adequately depict what a real firefight would be like.

?Depending on the distance that you?re away, civilians don?t understand, in close quarters, the first thing you have to experience is the explosive sound of the weapon going off ? not yours, the shooter?s,? Nance said. ?It practically deafens you in an urban environment, inside a school building or something like that. It?s not like in the movies, where can you hear. It?s like somebody stabbing your ear a knife. If you can get past that and still move you?ll be conducting a gun battle, a firefight with people running back and forth in front of you. It?s just ? unless you?re very skilled soldier or a police officer who has already been through that, through simulation or an actual incident, you cannot even start to predict the effect. ?

Even if the teacher managed to survive a firefight with a shooter armed with a high-powered rifle, they?d face danger once law enforcement arrived.

?If you are a teacher who thinks you?re doing a defensive, you know, pose and protect a student, law enforcement will just assume you?re the shooter,? Nance said. ?If we start introducing five, 10 guns into that school, the complexity of target identification and clearance and knowing whether that individual is safe or whether they?re actually complicit and waiting for you to turn your back, it?s absolutely mind-boggling. Law enforcement will go the default ? which is to shoot the person with the gun.?

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/nothing-like-movies-military-vet-swat-training-expertly-dismantles-trumps-plan-arm-teachers/


This what these dipshits don't get. Even well trained professionals can't always perform well under the stress of these situations. Time and time, you see cops empty a magazine on a pistol, only to hit their target one or two times.

Now, get Chuck, the math teacher, who loves to go to the range 3 times a year, a weapon. Give him a "course" for a few hours, and he's all set!

Nope. To make any task you do a matter of natural response, you need 4000 to 7000 repetitions. You tie your shoes without even thinking about it now, but you used to struggle for a long time.

Let teachers teach, and cops take care of the bad guys.
 

Sportsaholic

Jack's Mentor
Forum Member
Jan 18, 2000
32,345
314
0
63
Crustacean Nation
We?ll this stupid, idiot dipshit will take my chances with Chuck the math teacher trying to stop a gunman any day over seeing more kids being killed waiting for law enforcement that could be 20mins away in our area......
 

shawn555

Registered
Forum Member
Apr 11, 2000
7,192
132
63
berlin md
We?ll this stupid, idiot dipshit will take my chances with Chuck the math teacher trying to stop a gunman any day over seeing more kids being killed waiting for law enforcement that could be 20mins away in our area......

You are aware that teachers having guns will lead to more death right?

The teacher forgets to secure the gun and a student gets it.
The teacher has a mental breakdown and shoots little Timmy who has been a jackass from day one.
There is a shooting event at the school and the cops rush in and shoot the teacher because they think he is the bad guy with the gun.

Amazing how people can not see this, also the majority of teachers and police do not want the teachers to be armed.

Do you think every cop is going to be a super hero? A bad guy with an assault weapon starts shooting up the school and the teacher who kinda knows how to use the gun is going to be who you are counting on to take him out? The risks out way the rewards.

Make schools one or two entrances only and put a metal detector and a cop at each one.

Arming teachers is the dumbest shit this country has ever thought up.
 

Sportsaholic

Jack's Mentor
Forum Member
Jan 18, 2000
32,345
314
0
63
Crustacean Nation
You are aware that teachers having guns will lead to more death right?

The teacher forgets to secure the gun and a student gets it.
The teacher has a mental breakdown and shoots little Timmy who has been a jackass from day one.
There is a shooting event at the school and the cops rush in and shoot the teacher because they think he is the bad guy with the gun.

Amazing how people can not see this, also the majority of teachers and police do not want the teachers to be armed.

Do you think every cop is going to be a super hero? A bad guy with an assault weapon starts shooting up the school and the teacher who kinda knows how to use the gun is going to be who you are counting on to take him out? The risks out way the rewards.

Make schools one or two entrances only and put a metal detector and a cop at each one.

Arming teachers is the dumbest shit this country has ever thought up.


You are aware that some states already have teachers armed, right? How many kids have been shot at those schools? Perfect situation no but let the states/schools/parents choose what?s best for their school....

I understand your point and I appreciate your reply without hurling insults because you disagree....Hopefully a better solution is coming that stops these shootings, that?s what we all want.
 

yyz

Under .500
Forum Member
Mar 16, 2000
43,887
2,474
113
On the course!
We?ll this stupid, idiot dipshit will take my chances with Chuck the math teacher trying to stop a gunman any day over seeing more kids being killed waiting for law enforcement that could be 20mins away in our area......

Well, I won't take the chance that Chuck kills an innocent kid.
 

ChrryBlstr

Registered User
Forum Member
Feb 11, 2002
7,407
54
48
Hoosier country
Arming teachers is the dumbest shit this country has ever thought up.

Whoa. Not so fast. The following info may want to make you reconsider.

An old report, but still in play.

Peace! :)

Iowa grants gun permits to the blind

DES MOINES, Iowa -- Here's some news that has law enforcement officials and lawmakers scratching their heads:

Iowa is granting permits to acquire or carry guns in public to people who are legally or completely blind.

No one questions the legality of the permits. State law does not allow sheriffs to deny an Iowan the right to carry a weapon based on physical ability.

The quandary centers squarely on public safety. Advocates for the disabled and Iowa law enforcement officers disagree over whether it's a good idea for visually disabled Iowans to have weapons.

On one side: People such as Cedar County Sheriff Warren Wethington, who demonstrated for The Des Moines Register how blind people can be taught to shoot guns. And Jane Hudson, executive director of Disability Rights Iowa, who says blocking visually impaired people from the right to obtain weapon permits would violate the Americans with Disabilities Act. That federal law generally prohibits different treatment based on disabilities.

On the other side: People such as Dubuque County Sheriff Don Vrotsos, who said he wouldn't issue a permit to someone who is blind. And Patrick Clancy, superintendent of the Iowa Braille and Sight Saving School, who says guns may be a rare exception to his philosophy that blind people can participate fully in life.

Private gun ownership ? even hunting ? by visually impaired Iowans is nothing new. But the practice of visually impaired residents legally carrying firearms in public became widely possible thanks to gun permit changes that took effect in Iowa in 2011.

"It seems a little strange, but the way the law reads we can't deny them (a permit) just based on that one thing," said Sgt. Jana Abens, a spokeswoman for the Polk County Sheriff's Department, referring to a visual disability.

Polk County officials say they've issued weapons permits to at least three people who can't legally drive and were unable to read the application forms or had difficulty doing so because of visual impairments.

And sheriffs in three other counties ? Jasper, Kossuth and Delaware ? say they have granted permits to residents who they believe have severe visual impairments.

"I'm not an expert in vision," Delaware County Sheriff John LeClere said. "At what point do vision problems have a detrimental effect to fire a firearm? If you see nothing but a blurry mass in front of you, then I would say you probably shouldn't be shooting something."

Training the visually impaired

In one Iowa county, blind residents who want weapons would likely receive special training.

Wethington, the Cedar County sheriff, has a legally blind daughter who plans to obtain a permit to carry when she turns 21 in about two years. He demonstrated for the Register how he would train blind people who want to carry a gun.

"If sheriffs spent more time trying to keep guns out of criminals' hands and not people with disabilities, their time would be more productive," Wethington said as he and his daughter took turns practice shooting with a semi-automatic handgun on private property in rural Cedar County.

The number of visually impaired or blind Iowans who can legally carry weapons in public is unknown because that information is not collected by the state or county sheriffs who issue the permits.

Clancy, superintendent of the Iowa Braille and Sight Saving School, said the range of sight among people who are classified as legally blind varies greatly. He believes there are situations where such applicants can safely handle a gun.

However, he also expressed concerns.

"Although people who are blind can participate fully in nearly all life's experiences, there are some things like the operation of a weapon that may very well be an exception," Clancy said.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 and other federal laws do not prohibit blind people from owning guns. But unlike Iowa, some states have laws that spell out whether visually impaired people can obtain weapon permits.

Vision requirements are either directly or indirectly part of the weapon permit criteria in some surrounding states.

In Nebraska, for example, applicants for a permit to carry a concealed handgun must provide "proof of vision" by either presenting a valid state driver's license or a statement by an eye doctor that the person meets vision requirements set for a typical vehicle operator's license.

Other states have indirect requirements that could ? but don't automatically ? disqualify people who are blind. That includes Missouri and Minnesota, where applicants must complete a live fire test, which means they have to shoot and hit a target.

A 50-state database of gun permit requirements published by USACarry.com also shows that South Carolina has a law that requires proof of vision before a person is approved for a weapons permit.

Wisconsin, like Iowa, has no visual restrictions on gun permit applicants. Illinois lawmakers enacted a concealed weapons law in July but permits have not yet been issued. Illinois' qualifications don't specifically require a visual test, but applicants must complete firearms training that includes range instruction.

The National Federation of the Blind does not track states that require vision tests as part of weapon permit processes and has not taken an official stand on the issue. But its members are generally opposed to such laws, said Chris Danielsen, director of public relations for the group.

"There's no reason solely on the (basis) of blindness that a blind person shouldn't be allowed to carry a weapon," Danielsen said. "Presumably they're going to have enough sense not to use a weapon in a situation where they would endanger other people, just like we would expect other people to have that common sense."

Iowa requires training for anyone who is issued a permit to carry a weapon in public, but that requirement can be satisfied through an online course that does not include any hands-on instruction or a shooting test.

A provision in Iowa's law allows sheriffs to deny a permit if probable cause exists to believe that the person is likely to use the weapon in such a way that it would endanger themselves or others. Many sheriffs noted, however, that the provision relates to specific documented actions, and applicants who appealed their cases would likely win.

Hudson, executive director of Disability Rights Iowa, believes changing the state law to deny blind people or others with physical disabilities the right to carry arms would violate federal disabilities law.

Part of the Americans with Disabilities Act requires a public entity to conduct an individualized analysis to make a reasonable judgment before denying a service. Hudson believes someone could successfully challenge Nebraska's proof of vision requirement as illegal.

"The fact that you can't drive a car doesn't mean you can't go to a shooting range and see a target," Hudson said.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/08/iowa-grants-gun-permits-to-the-blind/2780303/
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,561
314
83
Victory Lane
the only thing I like about arming the teachers.


If we are on lockdown and shots fired. I have a gun and I am a teacher.


Kids go to the closet with doors closed.

I take a position beside a door where the killer might come in.

That door opens and I empty my gun.

Hoping its not another teacher or swat

just saying
 

Sportsaholic

Jack's Mentor
Forum Member
Jan 18, 2000
32,345
314
0
63
Crustacean Nation
Ok, I'd like opinions from the members that have posted here on how you would handle this.....



Today a local Middle School Student threatened to shoot up our school tomorrow.....Overheard by another student and police were called....


What do you feel needs to be done to the offending student and for the safety of the students and school?
 

WhatsHisNuts

Woke
Forum Member
Aug 29, 2006
28,495
1,559
113
51
Earth
www.ffrf.org
Ok, I'd like opinions from the members that have posted here on how you would handle this.....



Today a local Middle School Student threatened to shoot up our school tomorrow.....Overheard by another student and police were called....


What do you feel needs to be done to the offending student and for the safety of the students and school?

What does the law say regarding verbal threats? I'm not sure how far you can go.....or how far you should go.

They should probably start with an investigation to see if the threats were actually made and then get a warrant to check the kids house to see if he had access to the weapons needed to carry it out. It's important to know if he has the means to carry it out. At some point, I think the neighborhood should beat the shit out of the kid's parents.
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top