Further Proof (part 19)

[gjn23]

That coaches ARE COMPLETE MORONS

I sit here recently unemployed and watch these 6-7 figure coaches who put in 70-80 hour weeks and I ask myself

WHAT ARE THE ****ING IDIOTS THINKING?
WHY DO THEY GET PAID SO MUCH?
AND WHY AM I NOT HIRED AS A CONSULTANT/ASST COACH?


Hey Butch DAvis/offensive coordinator...you're up 12 with 6 minutes left and you have the ball.. you really dont need points, you really don't even need yards...the most important thing is to KEEP THE CLOCK MOVING. They threw the ball twice when up twelve, stoping the clock (could have taken 1:30 off the clock HAD YOU JUST TAKEN A KNEE). You then let the Steelers score, however you get the ball back and throw 2 more times, both incomplete costing yourself another 40 seconds and forcing the Steelers to use ALL of their timeouts. Worst cast scenario should have been punt at the 2 minute mark, Steelers have 0 TO's left.

Then guess what....when you need to stop the clock or get out of bounds when you have 0 TO's left and 50 seconds left....you throw twice in the middle of the field costing your teams 12 seconds and of course the clock then ran out.

Nice Job Cleveland Clowns.

 

[The Big Tease]

I dont think that was dumb....but the fact that they couldnt run the ball was going to catch up with them up some point. There was no way in hell that they were going to pick up a first down by the run. So Pittsburgh was going to get the ball back no matter what. Hindsight is 20-20. but I would have done the same thing. You cant win football games in the playoffs if you cant run the ball

 

[ctownguy]

I'll second that

Davis may be a great motivator, but it sucks bigtime at game management.

Cleve wins a couple games at the last minute, but the bigger stat is how many did they lose that they should have won if their HC knew how mgmt the game.

Winning a game on a hail mary is not great coaching. Almost any other coach in the NFL would have won this game and advanced

Pit better celebrate hard this week, they'll be going home next week, Cowher is just as bad, great motivator, horrible game coach.

 

[Antonio]

Ctown thanks for the advice

 

[gjn23]

Well 2 INC passes result in 15 seconds off the clock and you punt anyway...two runs on 2/3rd down and you punt but 95 seconds come off the clock...

You don't think that made the difference????

Had they taken that time off, Pitt's 1st TD would have come at the under 2 minute mark and probably would have been forced to try on on-side kick.

Again this is not 20-20 hindsight....when leading by more than 8 points with less than 7 minutes left the MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO RUN THE CLOCK with the lead.

 

[The Big Tease]

you sounds like one of those guys that encourages the prevent defense too...

Cleveland couldnt run the ball, and Butch knew it. ON the other hand though, they could throw it around basically at will. If you need a first down to win the game, you throw it. If you are just trying to run clock to keep their offense off the field, then you dont have the defense needed to advance in the first place. If Cleveland could run the ball, I would have a different opinion, but that wasnt the case

 

[Take Two ?]

Could NOT...

Could NOT...

agree more that Clevland got totally out-coached in the 4th quarter. They played right into PITS hands, by stopping the clock. IMO, this started when they went for 2 points when they should have taken the single. That way they would have been in a position to play for the win on that last drive. Even more important, they could have put Pitt in the position of needing to go for 2 TDs and two 2 point conversions.

PISS POOR game management - although I was on the Brownies +8, it is a bitter outright defeat, as I also had the ML at +330///

 

[redking]

Did you guys watch the game?? On 2nd and 3rd down, the Browns receivers dropped two catchable passes. Northcutt (sp?) had an easy ball go through his hands!

If one of the Browns WRs catches ONE of those balls, Cleveland runs out the clock and we're all praising Butch Davis for having the balls to throw the football.

 

[Hoops]

What really hurt Cleveland was Davis challenging the TD catch by Burress, which was clearly a catch...stupid challenge on his part and cost him a valuable time-out. Also, as well as Holcomb played, his inability to get plays snapped on time burned at least 3 timeouts, 2 in the third quarter alone and he was lucky Cleveland wasn't called for a couple more delay of game penalties as it looked like the play clock hit zero before the ball was snapped more than once.

 

[1837]

Hoops, you clearly put the words out of my mouth! The td challenge was the dumbest thing he did. I was happy because i was rooting for my Steelers and i said to myself: That stupid challenge call might be costly later for them and oh Boy it was good to see the clock at 0.00 in the end! The coaching mistake there was HUGE!!!

 

[gjn23]

Redking

thanks for making my point...."two catchable passes were dropped", stopping the clock.... players drop passes, make bad throws, allow rushers to get thru forcing the QB to throw the ball away. When you're up 12 with 5-6 minutes to go you don't risk these things happening, you run the ball. I don't care if you can't run the ball, you take 40sec + playtime, 40 sec+playtime and 40 sec + playtime off the clock + punt time. That's approx 2 minutes and 40 seconds off the clock while going 3 and out. They went 3-out TWICE (throwing 4 times all inc) and only took about 1 minute off the clock AND Pitt was still left with 1 TO. You don't think that stuff matters??????

At that point keeping the clock moving is more important that anything else (okay maybe ball security is #1). Heck maybe you even get 10 yards on your three runs, guess what, you then get to take 2:40 more off the clock.

 

[maverick2112]

gjn23................I agree with you totally. There comes a point in a game when no matter how successful you have been running or passing, you run the ball not to necessarally to gain yds but to run clock and make your opponent use tos on defense and not when they have the ball.................also notice how NYG holder was not able to down the ball to try another snap and possible winning fg since it was only 3rd down..............bad coaching,especially when the snapple already had a bad snap the kick before.

 

[gjn23]

Totally agree poor clock mgmt is the #1 reason why teams lose games when leading in the 4th quarter.

Who should be most upset about this????

The wives and families of these coaches. They spend 90 hours a week at the office and this basic stuff flys right over their heads. Spend some time at home, use some reasonable critical thinking on the sidelines or HIRE ME for 75k a year to tell you what to do on the sidelins. I guarantee I could have called plays that would have enabled the Clowns to win that game today.

How about this other scenario (both Niners/Steelers are guilty) that no coach thinks about, yet many end up LOSING and wonder why:

Under 2 minutes left (1:20 to be exact), you have TO's, you're trailing, clock is running, but after a 10-15 yard gainer down to the 12 yard line . You're so excited what do you do?????TIMEOUT.

WHY?

Both teams now should adjust their goals to not only scoring (still obviously most important) but also using as much clock to do so. Both the Clowns and Giants were given close to a minute left to mount their final drives (giants actually with a GW attempt) when they should have been almost no time left had the Steelers and Niners not used timeouts after reaching the 10 and 12 yard lines with the clock running.

 

[yyz]

This is another winless argument.

The final outcome dictates whether the game plan was right or wrong. Since they lost.....it looks like the coach made the wrong choices out there. If it works....he's a genius!

To say players drop passes all the time makes little sense. Though it is true that they drop passes, they also pick up a fresh set of downs on those passes. It's easy to state that they could run an extra 30 seconds off of the clock with a run, but with an entire quarter left, do you just keep going 3 and out?

I've seen that method exhausted by coaches, too. Then, when they get beat anyway, you hear people saying, "Why didn't they try for a first down?"

I would agree that the less time the other team has the ball, the less they have to score. But if they never have the ball, they will never score.

It's a winless arena if your team loses..........

 

[TheShrimp]

Butch Davis takes one of the worst teams in football to the playoffs in about 3 seasons after losing key defensive players (early in the season) and his starting QB right before the playoffs.

AND, he puts up 33 points on the Steelers in the playoffs in the snow in Pittsburgh and is basically inches/seconds away from either winning or tying the football game,

AND a bunch of guys on a website sit here and think they could do a better job.

Remind me again, who are the clowns?

 

[ctownguy]

Well, if you want to look at it that way, I totally agree as I said earlier he is a great motivator, we are just venting on this one game and how it played out.

But have to admit, stepping back and looking at the big picture, it has been a hellva turn around.

But they were so close and that's the way it has been with Cleveland sports for the last 40 years.

 

[gjn23]

It's not called an entire quarter, it's called 5:30 left, you're up 12 (2 scores...2 TD's) with the ball, they have 2 TO's left. You're goal is to keep the clock moving, no matter how few yards you get on each play. (and it's 40 seconds in the NFL on the play clock not 30.

His playcalling to that point was awesome, his playcaling from there forward IS WHAT COST THEM THE GAME, I guarantee it . Yes I could have called 6 better plays in that situation, 6 runs not 2 runs and 4 passes (all inc.)

 

[willypower]

Totally agree gin

Totally agree gin

No shit coaching sucks. So 3:00 to go 1st and 10 on own 30. Ist play run - nothing okay understand what you are saying gin - keep running time off clock probably punt, but took time off. Somewhat understand Butch Davis get a first down game over almost. Here's what I don't get. Since when are 20-30 yard passes high completion % passes??? What the **** is wrong with a quick out or slant or even a screen when sensing a blitz?? What is up with throwing lobs??? Totally moronic playcalling.

Next Jim Fassel. Why would you let your second worst kicker in the league over 40 yards attempt a 42 yarder when it was 4th and short (I think a yard or less). THis was the field goal before the last one of the game. What all of a sudden gives you confidence in this dufus in a critical situation with less than perfect field conditions. ****ing go for it or punt it.

Far to many times this year teams fail to put other teams away. They either get way to conservative in their play calling or they pull stupid shit like Butch Davis. And then other teams especially good ones come back and win. Put them away!! You were better than them for 55 minutes why all of a sudden totally change things or think stupidly. I really don't think it has to be that difficult

 

[gjn23]

They all have their little charts telling them when to go for 2 yet nobody has a chart explaining to them how much time can be taken off the clock with 3 runs for 0 yards and a punt?????? (Here's the answer 2 minutes and 40 seconds OR you force them to burn their TO's). Guess what idiots....you just may get those 10 yards in those 3 runs and there goes another 2:40.

BTW-Jim Haslett is by far the biggest idiot coach when it comes to 2 pt conversions. I'm convinced they lost at least 1 game this year by his insistance in going for 2 WAY to early in the game. Hey idiots, never go for 2 until the 4th quarter, make the 2 pt conversion the last play of the game if you're trailing by 15 or 22 and dont go for 2 if you have a lead (unless it's to put you up by 3 or 7 toward the end of the 4th quarter).