Horses?

DOGS THAT BARK

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Lots of nice insight here of late and have a question in general. I too like horses and last 10 years found it entertaining betting almost exclusively $1tri's.Bet entirely for entertainment and have in the past started each year with $500 stake at OTB and it has always carried me through to seasons end (mostly because of modest wagers) and in many year making money.Have gotten really familiar with Trackmaster software.This past year had to reload after Breeders Cup.Got to checking and while hitting bout same amount of tri's the payoffs in general have been much smaller. Where it was common in years past to get 1099's on 2 or 3 races a year I noticed I have gotten only 1 in past 2 years. I don't think my betting stragies have changed(more chalk) but deem they are cutting the pot much harder than previously.Anyone else noted similiar trend?
 

Patternseeker

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just some thoughts, dogs . . .

used to hear a lot of guys who took handicapping seriously complain about the track payout, especially on exotics -- i think for some tracks it's around 17% -- that's pretty high vig.

it also seems that while a trend may work beautifully for awhile, it then seems that if too many cappers use it, it falters, or, perhaps produces a lot of underlays. take andy beyer speed figures: all the rage when they came out and produced. now they don't seem so powerful. show me a horse with only 100 beyer in the race program and you can bet he'll be a favorite.

so i guess part of the puzzle for me, anyway, is to look where most people AREN'T looking.
 

SeattleSlew

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DOGS,

Tris are generally a high-takeout wager to begin with. On average a track's takeout scale will go something like this: Win, Place, Show (15%), Two Horse Combinations (20%), Multiple Horse Combinations (25%). This may seem fair, but when you take a look at the odds of actually hitting a tri, compared to an exacta, it is a considerably higher takeout over the long haul. I know you must know that to be astute enough to play them cold (boxing three or more horses over the long haul is murder), but there are more factors involved than just averages.....

For instance, tracks have been lowering FLAT bet (win/place/show) and exacta takeouts, which will have implications on how they slice and dice multiple-horse takeouts. Remember Hialeah? Their takeout, before they closed the doors was something like 23% on FLAT bets....and it was something dreadful on trifectas, I can't recall how high, but I do remember the doofus running the operation saying something like, "no one notices." Um, yeah - horseplayers notice.

On the flip side, a lot of tracks, due to the technology age (simulcasting is on my computer right now as I am typing this) are trying to attract in-home or OTB horseplayers to wager on their track. Pimlico offered a very low takeout when they unleashed a new "Pick-Four" wager this past year (was like 14%, which is an attractive percentage, indeed), and the NYRA tracks lowered takeout on FLAT bets to 14%, and exactas to 17%. However, these tracks have kept their trifecta takeout intact at 25%, and some have even raised it......this is overshadowed by the fact that they are lowering the more popular bet.....

Trifectas have long been experiencing the subtle rise in takeout percentage, but now they are needing to absorb a "ripple-effect" from marketing campaigns by a lot of tracks. I don't know if this is the sole reason you are noticing a drop in your overall ROI, but the combination of a high takeout wager, and the new changes, can't be helping.

DRF comes out with an annual list of worst wagers, in relation to takeouts/odds, and daily doubles rated the worst wager (I believe that's the second straight year), and supers and tris followed. The best wagers: Flats (of course), exactas, pick 3s.

If I find a list of tracks with lowest takeouts on tris I will be sure and pass it along (that may be a start, as you could limit yourself to those tracks, if it makes a big difference). But you won't see any broad-sweeping reforms on these wagers, due to less interest in that particular takeout.....

SLEW
 

Patternseeker

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slew

slew

thanks for the info.

25% --- dag nab it!!!!!!

enough to make a man consider laying off that wager!!!!!
 

DV8gambler

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slew

slew

That's some good info, I would love a list of take out % at different tracks for tri's and super's if you come up with it. Personally, I'll keep playing them regardless though, since it doesn't matter what they take out if you don't have the winning ticket, but when you do have it correct you want the highest ROI possible.

WGH
 

DV8gambler

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Biif

Biif

thanks, I use to get my pp's from brisnet before changing to handicappers daily, never even knew that was in there. No wonder I love KY tracks, I get more $, only tracks less than 20% take for tri's and super's.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Thanks for input gents.It hard to teach an ole dog new tricks so to speak but appears I need change venues or resolve to shoveling $hit against the tide.
Nice charts Biff,Thanks. Long time no see my friend.
 

ageecee

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Keeneland has the least takeout of any tracks on the trifecta 16% but the problem there is they are only open a month out the year. I think they started this low takeout on trifectas last year and Churchill and Turfway followed them. 25% is too damn high.
 

Biff

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Dogs

Dogs

Hey Dogs, been doing fine. Hope the 4 legged animals have been treating you well this year. The track owes me a couple $$$$:mad:

Good luck.
 
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