DO NOT BUY the Ragozin Sheets. Not only is their product vastly inferior to Thorograph, but I had a rather nasty exchange on the Ragozin board w/one of the co-owners. When I say nasty, it was nasty from his response(s). I've had over 1200 posts at Madjacks and never been insulted like I was by them. What a low-class waste of space. Either stick with the Form, Brisnet or Thorograph.
If you choose to buy speed figures
- Thread starter Valuist
- Start date
I have seen Ragozin sheets, but never used them. I have used Thorograph, but not alot. I found them useful for that sort of thing and superior to Ragozin. I can't remember if it was you or someone else, but Speedfigures.com is new at the game and offering some free days to promo their numbers at the site. They will even send you a free selection via e-mail. I haven't been overly impressed thus far, but I haven't really taken a good luck so I should reserve judgment. I can vouch for Thorograph. They have been around for years and produce sound numbers.
It may have been me that mentioned them. I saw them last week and their first best bet came in at $11.60 and then they hit the next day at $6.20. They've had 7 winners out of 14 best bets and are showing a solid profit so far. Usually I'm pretty skeptical and the sample size is small, but it does look encouraging so far. I'm planning on betting Del Mar this summer; a track I'm not real familiar with, but if these pace and speed figures prove reliable, I will definitely use them.
I will be at Del Mar almost everday during the summer. It's a beatiful track with an ocean view. Lot of long shots come in there.
Hey Big V Any experience with trackmaster software? I have used it for quite some time. They do not pick winners but merely give you data much like DRF to make your own conclusion.
Also any thoughts on Booklet and Proud Citizen in Preakness?
Also any thoughts on Booklet and Proud Citizen in Preakness?
Dogs The Bark--
I'm not a real big believer in software for racing. Maybe there's something out there that is good but I just think there's so many subjective factors that really can't be quantified: track bias, the likely pace of the race, and how a horse looks in the paddock and post parade.
I'm taking a definite stand against Proud Citizen. I thought he had a perfect trip in the Blue Grass (loose on lead, slow pace, inside/speed biased track) and I was surprised he was able to be second at CD. But he tracked a comfy pace, and basically ran for 2nd money. I see Booklet really forcing the pace here. He could clear but even if he clears I think the pace is going to be so fast that he won't last. He's beaten Harlan's Holiday twice at 1 1/16 miles but HH handled him pretty easily at 1 1/8. I like Medaglio a bit, and a few longshots also. Crimson Hero and USS Tinosa could be a part of the tri and I'm looking at Equality also. I'll probably key Medaglio and either CH or USST 1st and 2nd and 1st and 3rd in trifectas with maybe 5 other horses to fill out the other slot. Hopefully no late scratches and no slop.
I'm not a real big believer in software for racing. Maybe there's something out there that is good but I just think there's so many subjective factors that really can't be quantified: track bias, the likely pace of the race, and how a horse looks in the paddock and post parade.
I'm taking a definite stand against Proud Citizen. I thought he had a perfect trip in the Blue Grass (loose on lead, slow pace, inside/speed biased track) and I was surprised he was able to be second at CD. But he tracked a comfy pace, and basically ran for 2nd money. I see Booklet really forcing the pace here. He could clear but even if he clears I think the pace is going to be so fast that he won't last. He's beaten Harlan's Holiday twice at 1 1/16 miles but HH handled him pretty easily at 1 1/8. I like Medaglio a bit, and a few longshots also. Crimson Hero and USS Tinosa could be a part of the tri and I'm looking at Equality also. I'll probably key Medaglio and either CH or USST 1st and 2nd and 1st and 3rd in trifectas with maybe 5 other horses to fill out the other slot. Hopefully no late scratches and no slop.
You really need to watch yourself at Del Mar. It is hard to find a prettier track and a nicer atmosphere in California. But Del Mar is usually a handicapper's nightmare. Ndfan is right about the longshots. You really have to know the track bias, which changes often on a race to race basis. I know people that swear it is connected to the rise and fall of the tides, etc. I can tell you this - at times, you can go stretches and virtually eliminate either the top half (i.e., 1-5) or bottom half (i.e., 6-10) post positions. I know it makes little sense, but believe me, it is true. Some extremely strange things happen there, but it is a fun place and despite many longshots, they have had season with a high % of favorites, too. Have I got you totally confused yet? You can also totally throw out all Hollywood Park form.
Thanks V After looking at Pace figures from Trackmaster I am inclined to agree as Crimson looks to be 1 of only 3 true closers and appears PC has actual lost ground at end in with ave pace of 3rd on stretch call and ave finish of 4th.
Makes matchup of C.H. +130 vs P.C. look inviting @ WSEX
Thanks for your opinion!
Makes matchup of C.H. +130 vs P.C. look inviting @ WSEX
Thanks for your opinion!
Booklet +160 vs U S S Tinosa -200 at Olympic
Its raining in Baltimore and track should be sloppy so what if Booklet gets out on the front end and loves the mud. Will USS Tinosa be able to make a late run in the mud? Both horses are fresh but im taking the better class horse at +160. Value is too good to pass up just hope Booklet has something left in the tank down the stretch..
Its raining in Baltimore and track should be sloppy so what if Booklet gets out on the front end and loves the mud. Will USS Tinosa be able to make a late run in the mud? Both horses are fresh but im taking the better class horse at +160. Value is too good to pass up just hope Booklet has something left in the tank down the stretch..
Re: Ragozin Sheets.....was the product really inferior? or just hate them 'cause they were Nasty to you? I've use them for years, I have much better success with there Product than Thorograph. Jerry Brown's Thorograph go more into Trainers Profile I think rather than improving the Numbers. But bad mouthing a Product cause they were nasty and touting another is not fair, I use Both Len's and Jerry I still find success not in just finding the the right Horse with a generous odds, Both speed Sheets are Handicapping tool, not a Free Pick that they would not tell you what to bet on, they both Handicapp races, and they tell you who they like. but it is up to you to compare them to whatever you have Handicapp.
Fatso
Fatso
There is one problem with both sheets: they don't take into account pace and track bias. These are two of the most important factors in racing; Friedman just says "we don't know how to quantify it" so they ignore it. At least Jerry has a marking for "dead rail" or pace if its unusually fast or slow. It CAN be done. I know a guy here in Chicago who makes his own numbers and DOES factor in pace and bias.
As for the rest of the product, T-Graph has made a lot of changes to keep up w/the times, like the trainers charts and sire ratings. The Sheets basically haven't changed. SOrry but in business and life you have to adapt to the times. T-Graph has, the Rags haven't.
As for the rest of the product, T-Graph has made a lot of changes to keep up w/the times, like the trainers charts and sire ratings. The Sheets basically haven't changed. SOrry but in business and life you have to adapt to the times. T-Graph has, the Rags haven't.
Thanks Ageecee I just stopped and paid Spiro a visit.
How's your stable doing?Any recent claimers?
How's your stable doing?Any recent claimers?
JJP hit it on the head with the difference between "Rags" and T-Graph. I wouldn't go so far as to bad mouth either. Both have a use, but neither are the end all for any capper. I just prefer T-Graph myself and feel they have a little more relevance, but seldom use either. Personally, I feel the use of trainer charts and profiles is indispensible and would choose that over almost anything else other than past performances.
Any Chances?????? I hope so.....
Any Chances?????? I hope so.....
Funny, I used to use the "RAGS" 15 years ago- after about 3 years of increased size of bets and less 'net worth',said"Take those Fuchin "RAGS" and ...."..
Anyway, good luck guys.
Spanky play : WIN (only bet win myself) BOOKLET for $200.
and if winner, bet Carolina - goal and a half + $ 240 (I know I can't say where,but the 'joint' is in Toronto Sun and Gary is on The Fan alot )..
Luck to all Spanky....
Any Chances?????? I hope so.....
Funny, I used to use the "RAGS" 15 years ago- after about 3 years of increased size of bets and less 'net worth',said"Take those Fuchin "RAGS" and ...."..
Anyway, good luck guys.
Spanky play : WIN (only bet win myself) BOOKLET for $200.
and if winner, bet Carolina - goal and a half + $ 240 (I know I can't say where,but the 'joint' is in Toronto Sun and Gary is on The Fan alot
)..Luck to all Spanky....
