Is this the end of Democracy as we know it?

[Mags]

Let's set aside for a second the budget battle in Wisconsin - no matter what side you are currently on.

I'd like to talk about the new political tactic of the minority party effectively becoming the majority party by refusing to show up and vote.

1. Will this tactic become the new standard whenever controversial legislation is introduced in the future?

2. Is this the appropriate way to handle being the minority party - just refuse to participate when you don't like the result?

3. Is this a better method than using elections (and winning) to implement your party's agenda? Historically parties would use issues to campaign on and win the next election to make changes to legislation that they view as flawed. Clearly, things are changing. Elections appear not to have any meaning anymore - for the majority or minority party. Are all voters disenfranchised now?

4. Will this succeed at the Federal level? Will this be used in other states, besides IN and WI? Will this just be a Democratic tactic, or will Republicans employ this type of tactic?

5. When is it ok to use this tactic? Only when the minority party opposes what is going on? Or only for specific issues?

6. Ignoring the issue currently going on (which some of you won't be able to I'm sure), is this a postive development for our country's democratic process - a new tool for the minority to shut government down - or is this a bad tactic overall?

Hopefully we can get some good discussion on this. Obviously I'm against this - and I would have been if the Republicans had done this with Obamacare.

Curious what other people think of this somewhat new found (yes, I know they did it in TX previously) tactic - and if this becomes the new fillibuster/government shutdown tactic that will be used from here forth?

:0corn

 

[yyz]

I think what you are seeing is that democracy, in itself, is bullshit.

No one uses it in their own life, but we expect our government to use it to make our life changing/affecting decisons.

It doesn't work.

 

[Mags]

I think what you are seeing is that democracy, in itself, is bullshit.

No one uses it in their own life, but we expect our government to use it to make our life changing/affecting decisons.

It doesn't work.

Interesting, YYZ. Curious, but what system would you recommend?

 

[Duff Miver]

Let's set aside for a second the budget battle in Wisconsin - no matter what side you are currently on.

Okay, Maggot, here you go -

I'd like to talk about the new political tactic of the minority party effectively becoming the majority party by refusing to show up and vote.

Democracy at work. WI law requires a quorum to prevent a slim majority from railroading legislation.

1. Will this tactic become the new standard whenever controversial legislation is introduced in the future?

Nothing new here. Depends on the local laws. Most democratic practices require a quorum of 2/3 or thereabouts.

2. Is this the appropriate way to handle being the minority party - just refuse to participate when you don't like the result?

Yes, of course, see "quorum" above.

3. Is this a better method than using elections (and winning) to implement your party's agenda? Historically parties would use issues to campaign on and win the next election to make changes to legislation that they view as flawed. Clearly, things are changing. Elections appear not to have any meaning anymore - for the majority or minority party. Are all voters disenfranchised now?

The majority voted for Walker. As of today, seeing what he is up to, a majority would remove him from office.

4. Will this succeed at the Federal level? Will this be used in other states, besides IN and WI? Will this just be a Democratic tactic, or will Republicans employ this type of tactic?

The requirement for a quorum is commonplace.

5. When is it ok to use this tactic? Only when the minority party opposes what is going on? Or only for specific issues?

It's okay whenever/wherever so provided for in law.

6. Ignoring the issue currently going on (which some of you won't be able to I'm sure), is this a postive development for our country's democratic process - a new tool for the minority to shut government down - or is this a bad tactic overall?

Quorum is on no way anything new. In fact it is a bedrock democratic principle. Fer Chrissake, don't you know ANYTHING about history?

Hopefully we can get some good discussion on this. Obviously I'm against this - and I would have been if the Republicans had done this with Obamacare.

How can there be any discussion with a turd like you who is entirely ignorant of history and democratic principles?

Curious what other people think of this somewhat new found (yes, I know they did it in TX previously) tactic - and if this becomes the new fillibuster/government shutdown tactic that will be used from here forth?

The concept of quorum is not new, you Maggot. It's been around for thousands of years.


But here's a question for you: How did you come to be so Goddamn ignorant?
:0corn

....

 

[yyz]

On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter what it does.

---Will Rogers




What should we do, Mags? Well, I really don't know how to answer. I just know this shit doesn't work.....whoever is "in charge".


What we have in Wisconsin right now is a perfect example of the old quote:

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch.

It's broken. And when the shoe is on the other foot, guess what? It's STILL broken.

 

[Mags]

On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter what it does.

---Will Rogers




What should we do, Mags? Well, I really don't know how to answer. I just know this shit doesn't work.....whoever is "in charge".


What we have in Wisconsin right now is a perfect example of the old quote:

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch.

It's broken. And when the shoe is on the other foot, guess what? It's STILL broken.

Well, I guess I agree with you on this one.