medical problems cause half of personal bankruptcies...

AR182

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i find this very disturbing.....i guess because of my age

Medical Problems Cause Half of Personal Bankruptcies
By Karen Pallarito
HealthDay Reporter


WEDNESDAY, Feb. 2 (HealthDayNews) -- Illness and medical bills contributed to roughly half the personal bankruptcy filings in 2001, affecting as many as 2.2 million Americans, a new Harvard study says.

More than 75 percent of the filers had insurance, but many of them lost coverage during their illness, the research showed.

The study, which appears in the Feb. 2 issue of Health Affairs, provides a rare -- and stark -- glimpse into the medical causes of bankruptcy in the United States.

People who succumb to medical debt are mostly middle-class or working-class people who own their own homes and have at least some college education, the study found.

"I think the message that we take away is, really, nobody is safe in our country. Short of (Microsoft Chairman) Bill Gates, if you're sick enough long enough, you're likely to be financially ruined," cautioned study author Dr. David Himmelstein, an associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School.

"We're all one serious illness away from bankruptcy," he added.

Carol Pryor, a senior policy analyst at The Access Project in Boston, has studied the issue of medical debt and its "ripple effect" on people's lives. It can ruin an individual's credit and make it difficult to obtain and pay for medical appointments, she said. And as more health-care costs get shifted to consumers in the form of higher premiums, deductibles and co-insurance, the problem is only likely to escalate, she added.

"The medical debt issue is interesting," Pryor said, "because it just points up so many fault lines in our system."

With the cooperation of bankruptcy judges in five federal districts, the study authors distributed questionnaires to debtors at their mandatory meetings with court-appointed trustees. A total of 1,250 questionnaires -- 250 per district -- were collected, providing data on demographics, housing and specific reasons for filing bankruptcy.

Additional information from 521 homeowners filing for bankruptcy boosted the total sample to 1,771. Follow-up telephone interviews were completed with 931 families.

More than a quarter of those surveyed cited illness or injury as the specific reason for bankruptcy. When investigators examined how frequently illness and medical bills contributed to bankruptcy, the percentages swelled.

Close to half met the researchers' definition of a "major medical bankruptcy," meaning they either cited illness or injury as a specific reason for bankruptcy, had more than $1,000 in uncovered medical bills in the past two years, lost at least two weeks of income from work due to illness or injury, or mortgaged a home to pay medical bills.

More than half met the criteria for "any medical bankruptcy." This group included people who had a major medical bankruptcy or anyone reporting addiction, uncontrolled gambling, birth of a child, or death of a family member as a cause of bankruptcy.

Medical debtors were much more likely than other bankruptcy filers to have experienced a gap in health insurance coverage, the study revealed.

In follow-up interviews, researchers found that the people whose bankruptcy had a medical cause were more likely than other debtors to do without such basic necessities as phone service, water or electricity or food. Three-fifths went without a needed doctor or dentist visit, while nearly half failed to fill a prescription.

Among policymakers and opinion leaders, there's little dispute that the nation's employer-based health insurance system is flawed and vast agreement that something needs to be done to help the more than 43 million Americans who lack insurance coverage.

But that's where the consensus ends and philosophical divisions begin. To ameliorate the problem of medical bankruptcy, the authors of the new research argue for a national insurance system divorced from the existing job-based insurance model.

Others favor targeted, incremental fixes. The Bush administration, for example, proposes making greater use of health savings accounts and allowing businesses to band together to offer health insurance coverage through "association health plans."

"That's part of the solution," agreed Grace-Marie Turner, founder and president of the Galen Institute, a research organization that promotes free-market ideas in health care. She also endorses the Bush plan to allow people to buy insurance across state lines.

"It's just so important that people have more choice to buy the kind of insurance they know protects them," she said.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich also has a vision for reforming health care. In Saving Lives & Saving Money: Transforming Health and Healthcare, he and co-authors Anne Woodbury and Dana Pavey propose, in part, a national reinsurance pool to spread the risk of insuring people who incur extremely high medical costs.

"It's another something to try that is more aligned with the American value set," said Woodbury, chief health advocate of Gingrich's Center for Health Transformation in Washington.

But proponents of a national health system disagree. Health savings accounts, which are tied to high-deductible health plans, have the potential to skim away affluent, healthier individuals, leaving sicker people in traditional health plans and putting them at risk of higher premiums, Pryor said.

Meantime, Himmelstein suggests Canada's low rate of medical bankruptcy is the result of a better medical and social insurance system. Every other developed nation has solved the problem, he asserted. "Why should Americans have second-class health care?"
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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I read that this morning AR and in reading several things didn't seem to jell.
1st
"More than 75 percent of the filers had insurance, but many of them lost coverage during their illness, the research showed."

Since most coverage written is quaranteed renewable (can't single out for cancelation due to claims) the only way they could lose insurance is not pay the premium--also most have caps of $1,000,000 minimum so % of those exceeding caps would be very small.

There is an exception however and that is many companies have limits on aids and that might come into play in several areas.

2nd

"Additional information from 521 homeowners filing for bankruptcy boosted the total sample to 1,771. Follow-up telephone interviews were completed with 931 families.

More than a quarter of those surveyed cited illness or injury as the specific reason for bankruptcy. When investigators examined how frequently illness and medical bills contributed to bankruptcy, the percentages swelled."

Considering other facts that ave college grad owes $20,000 in loans and ave family credit card debt is over $8,500 we have situation where most families that incurr additional large medical expenses in addition are put past point of no return--and on those interviewed --when asked the question what was cause they surely will fault medical bills before credit problem.

The biggest reason I run into when people have large out of pocket expense is if they go out of network where benefits are greatly reduced.They are triple hit with higher deductible--larger co-insurance and the biggest of all-they do not get in network write off of excess charges.
 

THE KOD

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"More than 75 percent of the filers had insurance, but many of them lost coverage during their illness, the research showed."

........................................................................................

I think the reason for this is that alot of these people can no longer work at some point and then lose their coverage.

Of course they will then offer you Cobra but no one can afford that when they are out of work.

My wife and I had medical bills totallying over 15 k and were forced to put this on credit cards. I have it down to 9k now but it
can be overwhelming at times.

Something has got to be done. One illness away from bankruptcy is not the American way.
 

ocelot

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Yes, and we think other nations health care systems are flawed.

It would be laughable if it weren't so pathetic.

Hell, Cuba does a better job.
 

djv

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50% had insurance. Bills still were not payed. Why? Unless they all had super high deducts and I would find that strange. They will have us where they want us soon. Drop insurance just pay $200 a month the rest of your life to the hospital. Get rid of the middle folks just trying to make money for there stock holders. Why not we pay 300 up to 700 a month for insurance that still leaves you with big bills. So you still have to pay the hospital yourself. And they will say it's all because of law suits. We will see when they get tort reform how far down our insurance bill's go. I'm sure they will have another excuse by then. It's a sin how insurance and hospitals are screwing folks over.
 

THE KOD

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djv said:
Drop insurance just pay $200 a month the rest of your life to the hospital. Get rid of the middle folks just trying to make money for there stock holders. Why not we pay 300 up to 700 a month for insurance that still leaves you with big bills..
............................................................

djv

thats kinda of a brilliant idea if you ask me.
 

dr. freeze

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hospitals are forced to practice legal-based medicine instead of evidence based medicine -- that is the main reason behind the ridiculous costs

my wife's grandpa had a-fib and had to sit in the hospital for 7 days while his medicine levels evened out.....this could have all been handled from home but no, the doctor didn't want to get sued by our family if something would happen so he didn't release him

DJV you know nothing what you are talking about so just shut up while you are still behind
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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If this gets out of control you can add a bunch more to insurance premiums--In years past they isolated carriers to halt spread of disease--today they want to expand their rights to transmit--




Rare sex disease strikes in New York
Wed Feb 2, 2005 10:07 PM ET

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Two New Yorkers have been diagnosed with a rare sexually transmitted disease that is spreading among gay and bisexual men in Europe, the city health commissioner says.
The disease, known as LGV or Lymphogranuloma venereum, is caused by specific strains of chlamydia and is often marked by painful, bloody rectal infection and genital ulcers.

"LGV is a serious condition and its emergence in New York City reflects continuing high levels of unsafe sexual activity among men who have sex with men," Health Commissioner Thomas Frieden told a news conference on Wednesday.

"Unprotected anal intercourse, in particular, is extremely risky in terms of the spread of LGV as well as HIV," he added.

The U.S. Centres for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta has confirmed six recent cases in the United States, including three cases in San Francisco and one in Atlanta.

Among the cases identified thus far, most have also had HIV/AIDS infection, Frieden said.

The Netherlands has reported 92 cases of LGV dating back to 2003 and Belgium, France, Sweden and Britain have also reported infections.

Most people infected report having multiple sex partners and engaging in unprotected anal intercourse and other high-risk practices, officials said.

LGV can be cured by a three-week course of antibiotics if identified early. Untreated, it can cause swelling and scarring of the genitals and permanent damage to the bowels.
 

dr. freeze

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i am waiting to hear how DJV doesnt think that the legal system causes health care costs to rise in these cases.

1. Asymptomatic atrail fibrillation must be treated as an inpatient waitng for the blood to be effective thinned which takes up to a week.

2. Every newborn born to an asymptomatic mother with group beta strep which tests positive (the mother, not the baby) must be monitored for an extra day in the hospital in case an infection results

3. The rate of c-sections has risen to an all time high for fear of lawsuits. This puts the mother at a very high risk for complications both druring the partum period and for years down the road. Additional expenses are required for this operation of course multiplying the costs of delivery across the country.

DJV I would like a reply to the above situations since you like to talk about the rising costs of healthcare so much and seem to give the legal system a free pass.

Educate yourself on these subjects and get back to us on your conclusions so we won't have to listen to ignorance all the time.

These are just 3 cases in point. If you want, I can bring you more.
 

ocelot

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Well Doc,

What do you have to say about having a team of doctors treating you - none of which communicate with each other or the nurses - each of which thinks THEY are God - each of which tells the family jack about what they are doing - each of which speeds through to check on a seriously ill patient with about a 1.5 minute visit every other day during which they negate everything the last doctor did?

Yes, this is the NORMAL modus operandi practiced by a large segment of these quacks with a license to kill. Go to a hospital - you DIE.

Not that there aren't a lot of scumbag lawyers running around - and scumbag drug companies.

If I ever get to vote - indeed if many people ever are given the choice it'll be socialization of medicine. If there is ANYTHING that should be socialized in a society shouldn't it be HEALTHCARE?!

The rest of the Western World gets it - but not here. Too much $$$ at stake.
 

dr. freeze

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none of which communicate with each other? hmmm...never seen doctors who dont communicate with each....i will tell you when i meet that guy

each of which speeds through a check? what are they supposed to chekc that they are not checking?

what are they supposed to tell the family? that the time is up and there is nothing that they can do (in most cases for seriously ill patients) -- granted many of them are poor with empathy....

if you dont like your doctor, get a new one

guess what....you can't do that in socialized medicine

another option -- move to a part of the country where things are a little more friendly -- my guess is that you are in the northeast (hence the orioles monikor) and guess what....i dont live up there for exactly that reason

come to the South or midwest and you will be treated better
 

djv

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Like I said as soon as they get there tort reform and cost of medicine drops 20% overnight. We all should see that 20% back in rebates. Doc unless you are living in a cave. Folks are getting nailed for insurance up 46% in last three years. Then they still are left with 3000 in deducts cost and office co pay for each visit.
You and I know it's not all because of law suites.
 

THE KOD

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U.S. Physician Salaries - Ongoing Salary Survey

*Survey includes base salaries, net income or hospital guarantees minus expenses

January, 2002 - Present

SPECIALTY Years.. 1-2 ....3.... Max

Allergy/Imm ...$158,000..$221,000..$487,000
Ambulatory $ 80,000 ......$112,000 ......$152,000
Anesthes/ Pedia $ 283,000$311,000 .....$378,000
Anesthesiology: General $207,000 $275,000 .......355,000 Anesthesiology:............. $315,000 $370,000 ......$651,000
Cardiology: Invasive ...... $258,000 $395,000 ....$647,000
Cardiology: Interventional $290,000 $468,000 $811,000
Cardiology: Noninvasive $268,000 $403,000 ....$599,000
Critical Care ................$187,000 $215,000 $320,000
Dermatology ...............$ 195,000 $308,000 $452,000
Emergency Medicine..... $192,000 $216,000 $295,000
Endocrinology .............$171,000 $187,000 $260,000
FP (with OB) .............$182,000 $204,000 $241,000
FP (w/o OB) .............$161,000 $135,000 $239,000
FP - Sports Medicine $ 152,000 $208,000 $363,000
FP - Urgent Care .....$ 128,000 $198,000 $299,000
Gastroenterology ...$265,000 $349,000 $590,000
Hematology/Oncology $181,348 $245,000 $685,000
Infectious Disease .... $154,000 $178,000 $271,000
Internal Medicine ......$154,000 $176,000 $238,000
IM (Hospitalist) .........$161,000 $172,000 $245,000
Medicine/Pediatrics. ...$139,000 $168,000 $271,000
Medical Oncology ......$198,000 $257,000 $455,000
Neonatal Medicine $286,000 $310,000 $381,000
Nephrology ........$191,000 $269,000 $447,000
Neurology .........$180,000 $228,000 $345,000
Obstetrics/Gynecology $211,000 $261,000 $417,000
Gynecology ............$159,000 $213,000 $358,000
Maternal/Fetal Medicine $286,000 $322,000 $610,000
Occupational Medicine $139,000 $185,000 $290,000
Ophthalmology ..........$138,000 $314,000 $511,000
Ophthalmology Retina $280,000 $469,000 $716,000
Orthopedic Surgery ...$256,000 $342,000 $670,000
ORS - Foot & Ankle ...$228,000 $392,000 $791,000
ORS - Hand & Upper $288,000 $459,000 $770,000
ORS - Hip & Joint Replacement $330,000 $491,000 $715,000
ORS - Spine Surgery $398,000 $670,000 $1,352,000
ORS - Sports Medicine $266,000 $479,000 $762,000
Otorhinolaryngology $194,000 $311,000 $516,000
Pathology $169,000 $321,000 $610,000
Pediatrics $135,000 $175,000 $271,000
Pediatrics - Cardiology $145,000 $282,000 $607,000
Pediatrics - Critical Care $196,000 $259,000 $398,000
Pediatrics - Hematology $182,000 $217,000 $251,000
Pediatrics - Neurology $175,000 $189,000 $362,000
Physiatry $169,000 $244,000 $313,000
Podiatry $128,000 $168,000 $292,000
Psychiatry $149,000 $169,000 $238,000
Psychiatry - Child and Adolescent $158,000 $189,000 $265,000
Pulmonary Medicine + Critical Care $215,000 $288,000 $417,000
Radiation Oncology $241,000 $385,000 $787,000
Radiology $201,000 $354,000 $911,000
Rheumatology $179,000 $229,000 $378,000
Surgery - General $226,000 $291,000 $520,000
Surgery - Cardiovascular $336,000 $515,000 $811,000
Surgery - Neurological $354,000 $541,000 $936,000
Surgery - Plastic $237,000 $412,000 $820,000
Surgery - Vascular $270,000 $329,000 $525,000
Urology $261,000 $358,000 $619,000

SOURCE: Allied Physicians, Inc., Los Angeles Times and Rand McNally

*Updated January, 2004
........................................................................................


These sum bitchs are not going bankrupt.

Herein lies some of the problem.

Cut their salaries in half. Keep the doctors that are not interested in a high salary and more into helping people get well.
 
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dr. freeze

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great idea

you will immediately lose 90% of the people who go into medical school

you are left with mediocrity

4 years of paying 30-50 grand per year
4-10 years of making 40-50 grand after that

do you think that buy eliminating the reward for this hard work anyone will go into medicine?

or do you think perhpas these people might find the business world more lucrative
 

THE KOD

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dr. freeze said:
do you think that buy eliminating the reward for this hard work anyone will go into medicine?

or do you think perhpas these people might find the business world more lucrative
.............................................................

Yeh, them are exactly the ones I am talking about.
The ones looking for the reward. That says it all right there.

The system is screwed up with money grubbing
doctors who only care about the money and not
the people.

The business world would eat them for lunch. They hide behind a doctors apron. They could not make this money doing anyting else and they know it.

Once this is done, next comes the drug companies and insurance companies.
 

THE KOD

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doctor.jpg

Can't believe these idiots pay
me this much...hahahahhahaaha
 

THE KOD

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doctor4woleness.jpg

OK thats over a minute,
charge it double and lets get to
the next cash cow, I mean patient.
Oh and add a 200 dollar charge
on the chart just for some fluff.

 
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