more proof that this is a disaster...

[FlashInVegas]

check out the news regarding the phone call Dubya had with Vlad Putin today...this is becoming more of a mess then i thought it would be.

here is a piece of the transcript:

Putin: pull out of iraq, youre causing an "humanitarian disaster"


also, and this scares me even more, the arab league came out strongly today condemning the US and British actions. we are screwed, the world is coming down on us...jesus, this is going to make vietnam look like a picnic.

enough of this imperialistic strong-arming. we've stepped in a big pile of shit here. get the soldiers home. why risk any more lives for an endeavor that is ultimately going to fail?

 

[Durwood]

If he pulled the troops out now without achieving the stated objective, he would lose all credibility and his Presidency would be over.

 

[hellah10]

interesting...

I think the US can finish their mission without 250,000 soldiers...

If I can find the National Geographic that I saw it in....the military now has cloaking fabric....seriously. I have hunderes of NGs laying around - I WILL find it tonight and post what it says. But they had a picture of a guy cloaked....you couldnt see him! I wonder if they are using that technology over their

So god help me, Iam gonna find this NG with the article in it...been looking for it for 6 days now.

 

[FlashInVegas]

lol

lol

hellah, you are too funny...relax, have a smoke.

they NG is probably buried under all the ones with naked women in them...lol

 

[hellah10]

FOUND IT!!!!

Of course, it ends up being one of the last ones I thought it was published in 2002 - ends up being in......

JANUARY 2003 --- TOWARDS THE BACK you`ll see it all. They dont give to much information though -- obviously military wanting to keep this hush hush....

 

[AR182]

Flash,

You have to calm down.This is no where like viet nam & the world is not coming to an end.We didn't step in any shit. The arab league came out publically against the war to appease their poulation, but alot of arab countries are glad that saddam will get thrown out. I read that Kuwait & saudi arabia have said that they will contribute $billions.

Russia is in no position to advise the allies on anything concerning iraq. They are now on the defense because they violated un sanctions by illegally selling munitions & equipment to saddam.It seems that countries only obey the un when it is to their convenience.

This action is not going to fail & am sure history will prove Bush & Blair were correct to take this action.

 

[ssd]

Flash:
As AR has said, calm down. Turn off CNN and go do something else. You are over-analyzing everything and watching too much coverage. We have lost 50 men. Horrible, yes. How many have they lost? Don't know, do you? Fighting is getting tougher. This is expected. We are getting closer to Baghdad and things will get a little rougher. If you've noticed, news reports tend to be negative. I don't know why but they are. If you buy into all the shit they spoon-feed you, then you're going to get worried. We have the best military in the world. We are not going to lose. The Arab league can go F--k the camel they rode in on. So can the UN. Talk about toothless dogs. France, Germany, Russia and China can stick it, too. They have more economically to lose than we have to gain from this conflict. That is why they were so opposed to military action. Their dealings with Iraq are going to be un-veiled unless they all hold some secret summit with the US and Britain once this thing is all said and done. Who knows what they'll give up to keep their names out of the Sh-t.
War sucks. We hate to lose our guys. History will show that this was the correct course of action

 

[hellah10]

actually ssd...

Iam not sure what you mean by best military in the world. If you mean technology wise - then I agree....but if its training the troops, then Isreal has the best trained troops from top to bottom. They are well trained in alot of things - including Urban Warefare.

 

[marine]

hey hellah, if israel is so hot to trot, why aint they won the battle yet?

I would have to give my nod for best troops to the British ROyal Marines based on experiences with them. Some top quality guys over there.

 

[FlashInVegas]

...

...

im perfectly calm, thank you.

no, the world is not coming to an end, but it could get extremely ugly towards the US.

im afraid you folks that are buying the administrations rhetoric are awfully short-sighted. we no longer live in a world where you can ignore the stances of fellow world powers.

your flippant disregard for the arab league, russia, etc is an awfully dangerous stance. do you honestly think the US and the UK can exist in this world without the support of other nations??? i realize that this is a wet dream for many right-wingers, but its just not a realistic approach to survival on the world stage.

dont say i didnt warn you when this turns into a quagmire. we are going to have to pick up the tab for THIS mess (take note of the outrageous amount dubya has proposed spending: $75 billion). and once we have accomplished whatever the mission may be over there, whats next? if we are going to get rid of all the proposed threats, wouldnt N Korea be next? yikes, thats going to be a helluva lot more costly. after N Korea where do we head? get the idea? this is an endless nightmare, unless you make money off of war...which is precisely what many of our glorious leaders budies do!

once again, im perfectly calm...just because i take a more realistic and perhaps less rosy view on this does not mean im freaking out.

 

[AR182]

That's your opinion that you are being more realistic.

 

[rebel]

people are fleeing--------TO Iraq

just finished my morningpaper here 7.22 Am

It is article in todays paper where exile iraqis say that when your homeland is under attack they have to return no matter what.
Also the colums of cars and buses are being shot at, and a bus that was hit yesterday by US F15 by mistake ,we heard on the news

But according to Isralei Security magazin DEBKA file it was not

According to DEBKAfile?s military sources, the only true fact in this terse account was that the bus was Syrian. The missile was no stray. It was deliberately fired from an F-15 fighter-bomber at a bus carrying armed Palestinian volunteers to join up with Iraqi forces, in order to make sure this was the last such Palestinian group of volunteers for Iraq. That F-15 made a piece of history; it carried out the first American air attack on a combatant Palestinian group. More will certainly be heard of this episode.

http://www.debka.com/

 

[hellah10]

hey hellah, if israel is so hot to trot, why aint they won the battle yet?

maybe they are and we just dont know it. Iam not there...your not there...so we dont know...hell people over there probably wouldnt even know.

 

[neverteaseit]

Marine I have to agree with you there. Even though I have never done anything with isreali's. I have seen the BRM'S up close in excercises and they are a well trained unit. Also are SEALS which we have not heard much about for certain reasons and our Special OP'S units are very highly skilled units.

The reason this war is ugly if you say so. 20 + deaths is hardly ugly but what the heck desert weekend spoiled alot I guess. We are taking a humanitarian approach by trying to save iraqi civilians and by taking that appraoch we will pay with many casualties. I trust my military more then the t.v. for sure. These tactics on the battlefield used by Iraq are russian doctrine. I think we have some experience with these tactics and I truly believe you will see an assualt on baghdad like no other .


as far as russia and the arab nations I would not worry to much. these countries need us more than we need them. this is usual hatred towards us. once we find the weapons of mass destruction and liberate Iraq and hopefully do as we promised. Arab and world wide opinion will change. And get a grip about the arab nations they will never be pleased with anything especially if it involves the U.S.

Bush cookies put his presidency and legacy on the line here and I harldy doubt that he has done it to end the world. Nor has he done it without definate info. We have had CIA and special op's in Iraq since 1991. Bush went in to get the goods this time because if we had blind blix and the U.N. dragging this crap out who knows where it would end. enough babbling I'm not getting into a political debate not even worth it.


MARINE, SEMPER FI!

OLD IRONSIDES IS ROLLIN IN!

 

[big joe]

IF,,there is a flaw in our mission in Iraq, it's not with the war, but with our ability to convince Russia, France, China, etc. that taking out a dangerous regime BEFORE they attempt to take ANY of us out first. We are cutting this serious and growing threat off before it gets bigger and launches at any of us.
I'm wondering why we are ineffective at rallying support,,I DO NOT think what we are doing is anything but 100% correct.
The admistration needs better/more effective relations abroad.

 

[ssd]

Flash:
My flippant disregard for the Arab league comes from this. They don't give a damn about us. If they did, they would be more supportive in trying to root out terrorism. All they see us as is a cash cow that has made those governments filthy rich by purchasing their oil. And, they are afraid that a new democracy in the Middle East may spur changes over there in general which is something they definitely don't want to see happen. Russia? Companies there are actively supporting the Iraqi regime with weapons and training. The UN? A toothless dog that France used to further its own economic ends.
I do not think we can stand alone. However, I do not feel we need to bend over backwards for these countries who show us obvious disregard and thinly-veiled hatred. They think we are push-overs and soft.

Only time will tell as to who / what is correct. It most likely will be a combination of views.

 

[djv]

I said at the start of this action not to get to high. It was after all just 2 days old. We had folks here had this action being over in 10 days. I did say be carefull a real war could breakout soon. Believe we now have the real war. This will take time. We are about to lose more folks. They dont have to use chemical weapons. There tactics of hit and run are tough to get handle on. It's only way they can fight us. They have no control over the skys. We have all the airpower. So it was never in doubt who would win. Hell they have about 250 tanks left from the 91 war and there all old models. With us tryng to becareful not to hurt or kill the general population. We tie our own hands. They do thing that can piss you off. Such as many have asked why is there TV still up and running. Well the station is next to a school and in the basement of a health care facility. At least thats what Olli Norh reported. So how you take it out with out becomng the bastards of the world. So modern weapons they have few off. But in the long run there going to delay this with gorilla tactics. It's just going to take longer then most thought. And we will have to stay 2 to 5 years. That why I said before I wanted UN in on this. Let a army of the world stay and run things. Let them have the terror attacks aginst them instead of just our troops. Once shooting stops it anit over. They will be taking pot shots at our boys for long time.