More proof the really wealthy avoid their tax responsibilities

Chadman

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Thought it worth posting - when we talk about how tough it is for the upper 1%ers in this country. Further proof how this group of people has access to ways to avoid their tax responsibilities that the rest of us (I assume) don't have...

12,000 tax cheats come clean under IRS program
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER - Associated Press | AP ? 16 hrs ago

WASHINGTON (AP) ? About 12,000 tax cheats have come clean under a program that offered reduced penalties and no jail time to people who voluntarily disclosed assets they were hiding overseas, the Internal Revenue Service announced Thursday.
Those people have so far paid $500 million in back taxes and interest. IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman said he expects the cases to yield substantially more money from penalties that have yet to be paid.
The voluntary disclosure program, which ran from February to last week, is part of a larger effort by the IRS to crack down on tax dodgers who hide assets in overseas accounts. The agency stepped up its efforts in 2009, when Swiss banking giant UBS AG agreed to pay a $780 million fine and turn over details on thousands of accounts suspected of holding undeclared assets from American customers.
Since then, the IRS has opened new enforcement offices overseas, beefed up staffing and expanded cooperation with foreign governments. A similar disclosure program in 2009 has so far netted $2.2 billion in back taxes, penalties and fines, from people with accounts in 140 countries, Shulman said.

Between the two disclosure programs, a total of 30,000 tax cheats have come clean.
"The world has clearly changed," Shulman said. "We have pierced international bank secrecy laws, and we're making a serious dent in offshore tax evasion."
The IRS has long had a policy that certain tax evaders who come forward can usually avoid jail time as long as they agree to pay back taxes, interest and hefty penalties. Drug dealers and money launderers need not apply. But if the money was earned legally, tax evaders can usually avoid criminal prosecution.

Fewer than 100 people apply for the program in a typical year, in part because the penalties can far exceed the value of the hidden account, depending on how long the account holder has evaded U.S. taxes.

The latest disclosure program offered reduced penalties, but it was no free walk. Taxpayers were required to pay up to eight years of back taxes and a penalty of up to 25 percent of the highest annual amount in the overseas account from 2003 through 2010.

The disclosure programs have also provided the IRS with information about banks and advisers who have assisted people with offshore tax evasion. Shulman said the agency will use the information to continue its enforcement efforts.

"Unlike a few years ago, it's very clear now that there's a real price to be paid for people who think they can hide offshore and not pay their taxes," he said.
 

Mags

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Chad - normally your posts make sense, but this one doesn't.

Are you saying that these folks, who set up offshore accounts are the only people allowed to do so?

Couldn't you (or I), if we wanted, also have set up accounts in Switzerland, for example?

It is likely more an issue that we either did not think of doing so, or chose not to do so.

It's not like only "certain" people were allowed to - its just that only certain people choose to.

Anyone had "access" to do so.

This comment is rated "Pants on Fire". :0074
 

Chadman

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I don't really have enough assets at this point in time to be able to take money and move it overseas. Nor do I have an accountant that would help me do that. I pay my taxes, first of all, and I have to think if I made millions of dollars I'd probably be less concerned about paying my taxes.

But to address your point, I honestly have no real idea how to send money to an offshore account, or a bank in Switzerland. It's because I haven't looked, I'm sure. Most people don't - that's the point. Do you have money over there? Guessing most people in America that aren't trying to hide their money don't. Why would that be, do you think? I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it, really, but I suppose I have a chance to do it if that makes you feel better. But I'm also guessing that the relatively (to the millionaires of the world) small amount of money I have (after aggressively paying off my debt and paying cash for school, etc.) would not be on the Swiss' radar or would I be that welcomed.

Now if I'm a millionaire trying to stash a ton of money in a swiss bank? Guessing that would be a good match. Or I guess it did before they got busted... :0074
 

Chadman

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I want to alter the headline of my post - it's not really fair. It should read:

More proof that SOME of the really wealthy avoid their tax responsibilities.

I criticize others for using that broad brush thing... I was guilty of that. Some of the really wealthy are good people, just like some of the poor are good people.
 

Mags

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I want to alter the headline of my post - it's not really fair. It should read:

More proof that SOME of the really wealthy avoid their tax responsibilities.

I criticize others for using that broad brush thing... I was guilty of that. Some of the really wealthy are good people, just like some of the poor are good people.

No, Chad, I don't have money over there. But the point is, I could have, if I wanted. There was no magic gate in Switz that only allowed certain people to park money there.

We all had the same access - its just that some choose not to.

I'd agree with your revised post title though.
 

The Sponge

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I don't really have enough assets at this point in time to be able to take money and move it overseas. Nor do I have an accountant that would help me do that. I pay my taxes, first of all, and I have to think if I made millions of dollars I'd probably be less concerned about paying my taxes.

But to address your point, I honestly have no real idea how to send money to an offshore account, or a bank in Switzerland. It's because I haven't looked, I'm sure. Most people don't - that's the point. Do you have money over there? Guessing most people in America that aren't trying to hide their money don't. Why would that be, do you think? I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it, really, but I suppose I have a chance to do it if that makes you feel better. But I'm also guessing that the relatively (to the millionaires of the world) small amount of money I have (after aggressively paying off my debt and paying cash for school, etc.) would not be on the Swiss' radar or would I be that welcomed.

Now if I'm a millionaire trying to stash a ton of money in a swiss bank? Guessing that would be a good match. Or I guess it did before they got busted... :0074

Im surprised becoming a teacher and with a teachers salary (according to Mags) u haven't started in motion learning more about these swiss accounts. With the lucrative money teachers are allegedly making u would be insane to trap all of that money over here and pay all those taxes.
 

Duff Miver

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Right behind you
No, Chad, I don't have money over there. But the point is, I could have, if I wanted.

I am LMAO at you Maggot. Swiss banks wouldn't let you open an account if you were begging on your knees.

Swiss banks have minimum account balances, usually $500K US.

http://www.offshorecorporation.com/swiss-bank-accounts/

Given your whining about living on a single income, there's no chance you could qualify.

It's YOUR pants which are on fire.:mj07: :mj07: :mj07:
 
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Mags

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I am LMAO at you Maggot. Swiss banks wouldn't let you open an account if you were begging on your knees.

Swiss banks have minimum account balances, usually $500K US.

http://www.offshorecorporation.com/swiss-bank-accounts/

Given your whining about living on a single income, there's no chance you could qualify.

It's YOUR pants which are on fire.:mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

Duff, you certainly have me confused with someone else.

Living on single income? No, are family is not lazy - we all work.

More than you can say......SUCK-GOV-TIT

On another note, I saw your post about Palin, how you found her unattractive and wouldn't do her.

I don't find that surprising - as I understand she is not old enough, not wrinkly enough, and certainly doesn't like to go have drinks/dinner at flowershops! :00hour

I'm glad you are leaving the good lookin' ones for the rest of us.....
 

Mags

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Shit - every bartender and waitress cheats on their taxes, each and every year. None of them declare the full amount of tip income they receive - as much of it is cash based.

Funny, nobody calls them tax cheats.....

But I guess it is only wrong to cheat when you make a higher salary?

Either way, cheating on taxes is wrong.
 

StevieD

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Shit - every bartender and waitress cheats on their taxes, each and every year. None of them declare the full amount of tip income they receive - as much of it is cash based.

Funny, nobody calls them tax cheats.....

But I guess it is only wrong to cheat when you make a higher salary?

Either way, cheating on taxes is wrong.

Actually no one is deducting tips from their income
so I don't look at it as serious an offense as when the rich do it. That tip income, is for the most part put right back into the economy when the waiters, wairesses buy food and stuff for their families. Which is helping us all. While the rich tax cheats money sits in a hedge fund further screwing up the stock market and the free market.
 

Mags

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Actually no one is deducting tips from their income
so I don't look at it as serious an offense as when the rich do it. That tip income, is for the most part put right back into the economy when the waiters, wairesses buy food and stuff for their families. Which is helping us all. While the rich tax cheats money sits in a hedge fund further screwing up the stock market and the free market.

StevieD - while that is true, it doesn't get away from the fact that our country is not collecting the taxes it should by people cheating.

Although, I guess since 50% of the folks don't pay FIT anyway, many of these folks still wouldn't - but they are cheating the government on FICA and Medicare taxes (which do apply to tip income I do believe).

Same applies to plumbers/electricians/construction guys that do "side jobs". One of my best friends does electrical work on the side - making $50K a year taxfree. Add all those guys up, and that is a lot of undeclared income. There are a lot more of those guys (and waitresses, etc) than millionaires who are hiding money offshore....
 

Mags

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Rich, poor, in-between: some cheat, some don't.

The rich just cheat more $.

Unreal. I actually agree with a statement you made.

Guess Hell is freezing over and pigs are circling the house in the sky.
 

The Sponge

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Although, I guess since 50% of the folks don't pay FIT anyway, many of these folks still wouldn't - but they are cheating the government on FICA and Medicare taxes (which do apply to tip income I do believe).

...

Im so sick of hearing this bullshit line. Chad has said it a thousand times but u asshole keep on pouring out this same bullshit line over and over again. Here maybe this might help but i doubt it.


When pressed, Republicans make up misleading statistics to "prove" that the America's fiscal burden is being borne by the rich and the rest of us are just freeloaders who don't appreciate that fact. "Half of Americans don't pay taxes" is a perennial meme. But what they leave out is that that statement refers to federal income taxes. There are millions of people who don't pay income taxes, but do contribute payroll taxes - among the most regressive forms of taxation. But according to GOP fiscal theology, payroll taxes don't count. Somehow, they have convinced themselves that since payroll taxes go into trust funds, they're not real taxes. Likewise, state and local sales taxes apparently don't count, although their effect on a poor person buying necessities like foodstuffs is far more regressive than on a millionaire.

All of these half truths and outright lies have seeped into popular culture via the corporate-owned business press. Just listen to CNBC for a few hours and you will hear most of them in one form or another. More important politically, Republicans' myths about taxation have been internalized by millions of economically downscale "values voters," who may have been attracted to the GOP for other reasons (which I will explain later), but who now accept this misinformation as dogma.
 

Mags

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Im so sick of hearing this bullshit line. Chad has said it a thousand times but u asshole keep on pouring out this same bullshit line over and over again. Here maybe this might help but i doubt it.


When pressed, Republicans make up misleading statistics to "prove" that the America's fiscal burden is being borne by the rich and the rest of us are just freeloaders who don't appreciate that fact. "Half of Americans don't pay taxes" is a perennial meme. But what they leave out is that that statement refers to federal income taxes. There are millions of people who don't pay income taxes, but do contribute payroll taxes - among the most regressive forms of taxation. But according to GOP fiscal theology, payroll taxes don't count. Somehow, they have convinced themselves that since payroll taxes go into trust funds, they're not real taxes. Likewise, state and local sales taxes apparently don't count, although their effect on a poor person buying necessities like foodstuffs is far more regressive than on a millionaire.

All of these half truths and outright lies have seeped into popular culture via the corporate-owned business press. Just listen to CNBC for a few hours and you will hear most of them in one form or another. More important politically, Republicans' myths about taxation have been internalized by millions of economically downscale "values voters," who may have been attracted to the GOP for other reasons (which I will explain later), but who now accept this misinformation as dogma.

Listen, Sponge, I know you are not that intelligent, so I will give you a pass here.

I stand by my statement. Note that I said "50% don't pay FIT".

I realize that you are not financially astute, so I will spell out what FIT stands for - Federal Income Tax.

So, my comment, was absolutely correct, and your response was a stupid one, as usual.
 

StevieD

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StevieD - while that is true, it doesn't get away from the fact that our country is not collecting the taxes it should by people cheating.

....

I am not even going to address that 50% lie that you Republicans hold onto but how do you suggest we catch the tax cheats? Both rich and poor.
Something like that would take money. But you want to keep shrinking the gov't.
If asked everybody is for catching the cheats.
:shrug:
 

Mags

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I am not even going to address that 50% lie that you Republicans hold onto but how do you suggest we catch the tax cheats? Both rich and poor.
Something like that would take money. But you want to keep shrinking the gov't.
If asked everybody is for catching the cheats.
:shrug:

The "50% lie" isn't the comment I made.

I said 50% don't pay FIT. In fact, it is 47% did not pay FIT last year (I rounded to 50% admittedly).

That is fact - it is not a lie. And like I taught Spongie, FIT = Federal Income Taxes.

And to make matters worse? A percentage of that 47% actually got money back! Yes, not only didn't pay a penny in FIT, but we actually gave them money for nothing.

America has turned into a big welfare state. It is sad. As some folks post, pity really.
 

StevieD

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The "50% lie" isn't the comment I made.

I said 50% don't pay FIT. In fact, it is 47% did not pay FIT last year (I rounded to 50% admittedly).

That is fact - it is not a lie. And like I taught Spongie, FIT = Federal Income Taxes.

And to make matters worse? A percentage of that 47% actually got money back! Yes, not only didn't pay a penny in FIT, but we actually gave them money for nothing.

America has turned into a big welfare state. It is sad. As some folks post, pity really.

I understand where your 50% number comes from and I understand it is FIT. How many of those are WW2 vets who do not make enough to pay taxes? I also pointed out in a previous thread how those 50% that do not pay FIT feel the hit of every other tax hundreds of times harder than the wealthy do.

Now back to my question. How you suppose we catch the cheats if you want to keep shrinking gov't and cut their pay?
 
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