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DOGS THAT BARK

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Hmm the liberals have united again--and the press is there to give them plenty of coverage as usual.
--Lets take a look at this liberal element for what they realy are--we have former US attorney general Ramsey Clark (Billy'sBoy) who was Saddam defence attorney--Cindy Sheehan (the liberals poster gal) and ANSWER heading up the Dems cause.--and just who is this official looking outfit (ANSWER) who is arm of the Dem party.

from Wikipedia

Act Now to Stop War and End Racism?also known as International ANSWER and the ANSWER Coalition?is a American protest organization involved in the post-9/11 anti-war movement.

Formed within three days of the September 11th attacks, and officially founded on September 14, 2001 by Ramsey Clark and members of the International Action Center, ANSWER was one of the first organizations formed to protest the policies of the Bush administration in the wake of the September 11 attacks. Its first major action was a September 29, 2001 "Anti-War, Anti-Racist" political rally and march in Washington, D.C., primarily in protest of the then-impending U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. Subsequently the organization has organized rallies drawing crowds in the hundreds of thousands, including several with record-setting numbers of people. ANSWER characterizes itself as anti-imperialist, and its steering committee consists of socialists, Marxists, civil rights advocates, and left-wing progressive organizations from the Muslim, Arab, Palestinian, Filipino, Haitian, and Latin American communities. Many of ANSWER's leaders were members of Workers World Party (WWP) at the time of ANSWER's founding, and are current members of the Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL), a Marxist-Leninist organization that formed in 2004.

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--and whats more amazing is some here will argue when confronted that liberals and or enemies have same motive--

--only question unanswered is which is more radical the terrorist or liberal?

Welcome folks to the controling arm of the Dem party--

War protests to move to NY after march on Pentagon Sun Mar 18, 4:19 AM ET

NEW YORK (AFP) - Thousands of protesters were expected to take to the streets here Sunday to demand an immediate end to the war in Iraq as New York takes the relay from other US cities that have held massive anti-war marches.

United for Peace and Justice, which describes itself as the largest anti-war coalition in the United States, said it expected the protesters to turn up here en masse to mark the fourth anniversary of the US-led Iraq invasion.

"The national anti-war movement is planning a unified surge of protest actions calling on Congress to end the occupation and for the immediate withdrawal of US troops," the group said in a statement.

Meanwhile, tens of thousands of demonstrators marched to the Pentagon's doorstep Saturday demanding "US out of Iraq Now," ahead of the fourth anniversary of the US invasion.

People from across the United States gathered on a cold winter day to descend on the US Defense Department offices and decry the conflict that has killed more than 3,200 US soldiers and tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians.

Former US attorney general Ramsey Clark called for President George W. Bush's impeachment, while Cindy Sheehan, who lost a son in Iraq, demanded a US withdrawal.

"I marched in 1967 here," Maureen Dooley, 59, said outside the Pentagon, site of Vietnam war protests, but results were not immediate: "It took seven years to end the war."

War opponents trickled into Washington for the rally organized by the peace group ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War & End Racism) as Vietnam war veterans wearing black leather jackets gathered nearby for a counter-demonstration.

Some war supporters confronted the peace activists, tearing up and spitting on anti-war signs while chanting: "USA! USA!"

Washington police do not give crowd estimates, but an AFP correspondent said tens of thousands of people could be seen at the march.

War opponents have organized a series of protests against the conflict that started March 20, 2003.

In Los Angeles, several thousand demonstrators took to the streets. Organizers of the rally in Hollywood estimated its size at "tens of thousands," while the Los Angeles Police Department said the figure was in the 5,000-6,000 range.

Protesters blew whistles and carried placards bearing slogans critical of Bush, such as "Worst President Ever" and "It's time for regime change in Washington."

A smattering of celebrities were also marching in the crowd, organizers said, including veteran actor and peace activist Martin Sheen and actress Maria Bello, the star of "Thank you for Smoking" and "A History of Violence."
Ian Thompson, of ANSWER, said the protest was the biggest in Los Angeles since 2005. "People have had enough and this is their way of showing it," Thompson told AFP.

"This government needs to start listening to what the people want. And most people don't want us to be fighting war in Iraq," Thompson added.

In European cities, protest turnout ranged from 400,000 in Madrid to thousands in Istanbul, Turkey and several hundred in Copenhagen, Prague, Athens and Thessaloniki in Greece.

Alan Pugh, 27, a computer student from Ohio, said he hoped the Washington protest would have the same impact as the mass demonstrations denouncing the Vietnam war decades ago.

"This is the 40th anniversary of the Vietnam protest that changed the direction and we hope we can do the same thing today," he said.

Late Friday, about 100 people were arrested in Washington as they held a vigil on a sidewalk in front of the White House and ignored police orders to disperse in a protest organized by Christian Peace Witness for Iraq.

The leftist group MoveOn.org was also organizing candlelight vigils for Monday in Washington and across the country, spokesman Steve Hoffman said.
The war has grown increasingly unpopular, with recent polls showing that a majority of Americans now say the invasion was a mistake and want the US government to set a timetable for the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq.

Peace activists want the US Congress, secured by the Democrats in November elections that were marked by voter anger at the war, to push hard for the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq.

But Democrats have so far failed to pass legislation that would compel Bush to change course in Iraq.
 
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djv

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Yes I hate to see the start of late 60's all over again. But we should at least look at why they gather. We are 4 years into a war. That many Americans over 65% believe has gone way off course. A war we started my invading without asked to come. Remember Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11. Iraq as we have found out was nothing but week with a useless military. But we remain after 4 years as reveries of there civil war. WHY? do we wish to stay in there civil war. We are not asked by either side to stay. In fact over 70% of Iraq's wish we would leave. With over 65% of Americans wanting us to form a better plan. A election 5 months ago that cause many there job's because of there view on this war.
And a administration that believes in only it's way and pays no attention to majority of Americans.
That will get you these protests. And they are not just liberals. They are Americans from all walks of life and political stands. You can't get over 65% of America saying find a new course. And there just liberals. I'm sure you will find many independents and Conservatives to. So I wish our government would not let history repeat and listen to majority.
Then we need no demonstrations.
 

Roger Baltrey

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All we need is 4 more years at $80 billion a year and a couple of hundred casualties and we will "stabilize" the situation and "defeat the enemy". Who the hell is the enemy. The Bozos in the Republican party make up a new enemy every year because they can't admit that this adventure was wrong. You will be having this discussion a year from now because there will always be a bitter portion of the population in Iraq who feels disenfranchised by the outcome of this situaion. Iraq was not a breeding ground for Terrorists under Hussein.
 

WhatsHisNuts

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The war has grown increasingly unpopular, with recent polls showing that a majority of Americans now say the invasion was a mistake and want the US government to set a timetable for the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq.

Peace activists want the US Congress, secured by the Democrats in November elections that were marked by voter anger at the war, to push hard for the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq.

But Democrats have so far failed to pass legislation that would compel Bush to change course in Iraq.

DTB: You can highlight what you want, but I think the last three sections of your article are the most important.

In your warped world, thousands of citizens marching on New York in order to protest a war is not newsworthy. I've come to realize that your idea of newsworthy is only that which fits with your ideology.
 

Terryray

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those candles remind me of the similar display the hippies, university students and various similar types put out in Eugene, OR (where I grew up) every August for the victims of Hiroshima/Nagasaki ("war crimes", some said).

.......................................


By the Way: We're Not Losing:



By Austin Bay



The chattering class nostrum that Free Iraq and its coalition allies have "lost the Iraq war" is so blatantly wrong it would be a source of laughter were human life and hope-inspiring liberty not at such terrible risk.


In terms of fundamental historical changes favoring 21st century freedom and peace, what Free Iraq and its Coalition allies have accomplished in four short years is nothing short of astonishing.


Consider what Iraq was, not simply in A.D. March 2003, but in 2003 B.C. Both historical frames provide instructive lessons in the obvious.


Iraq, as ancient Mesopotamia (the land between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers), seeded Abraham's Ur and Hammurabi's Babylon. The region was the Eden of city-states, the consolidator and exporter of the Agricultural Revolution. It is also the center of a predominantly Muslim region where -- to paraphrase historian Bernard Lewis -- something "went wrong." Lewis was addressing the "fossilization" that began to afflict the Middle East at least six centuries ago, a cultural, intellectual and, yes, political ossification and decline.


The decline did two things that directly affect the War on Terror (which Rudy Giuliani more correctly calls The Terrorists' War Against Us). The decline undermined Islamist utopian notions of theological supremacy. That millennialist disappointment seeds the long list of "grievances" infesting al-Qaida's propaganda.


The far greater consequence (and truly grievous wrong) was arresting Middle Eastern populations. Arrest is the right word. The Middle East was trapped in the terrible yin-yang of tyrant and terrorist, the choice of one or the other -- which is no choice, for both mean oppression and death.


usiraq-sil.jpg


In November 2001, I wrote that we -- the United States specifically, but the civilized world as a whole -- are in a "fight for the future" with terrorists and tyrants. Iraq (Mesopotamia) has been and continues to be an influential if not critical stretch of geography.


In January 2003, I argued that toppling Saddam's tyranny in Iraq would do two things: begin the process of fostering political choice (democracy) in the Middle East and bring al-Qaida onto a battlefield not of its choosing. Moreover, that battlefield would be largely manned by Muslim allies, exposing the great fractures within Islam and the Middle East that al-Qaida's strategists tried to mask by portraying America as "the enemy."


Credit the Iraqi people with taking the opportunity by conducting three honest, open, democratic elections. In May 2006, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki formed a democratically elected, consensus-seeking government not simply in Mesopotamia but in the heart of the politically dysfunctional Middle East.


That's an astonishing achievement.


Al-Qaida's now-deceased emir in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, understood the stakes. In a message to al-Qaida (intercepted by the Coalition in February 2004), Zarqawi wrote that after Iraqis run their own government, U.S. troops will remain, "but the sons of this land will be the authority. ... This is the democracy. We will have no pretexts." Iraq's new army and police will link with the people "by lineage, blood and appearance."


The terrorists and tyrants understand. It's a shame America's chatterers don't.


Unable to defeat coalition soldiers or dim liberty's appeal, Zarqawi and his terror clique chose Iraqi civilians as their target. They concluded that an Islamic sectarian war between Shia and Sunni was the only way al-Qaida would avoid defeat. That might entail temporarily placing a secular Saddam-type tyrant in power -- hence the short-term cooperation with thugs from the former regime. Al-Qaida and the Saddamists bet their bombs would break the Iraqi people. That has not happened. They know their resiliency is a stinging rebuke of terror and tyranny.


Targeting the vulnerable is the same tactic the Ku Klux Klan used to enforce segregation in America's South. The Klan burned African-American churches instead of mosques, but the Klan, al-Qaida and Saddamist fascists target a population with similar technique and tyrannical viciousness.


Most of us are glad the FBI didn't pull out of Mississippi and Alabama in 1963. The analogy isn't direct -- Baghdad isn't Birmingham. However, the goal of ending the oppressive destruction of lives is both comparable and noble.


The Iraqi people are earning their victory and their liberty. The price for both is inevitably paid in blood, sweat and toil. At this point in history, they need American patience.
 

StevieD

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Austin Bay thought the War would last 6 weeks! You gotta stay off those Neocon Blogs.


http://strategypage.com/iraqwardiary/articles/20030328.asp

How long will the war last? Who knows, but here's a guess.
by Austin Bay
March 28, 2003
How long will the war last?

Lieutenant-General William Wallace, US Army commander in the Persian Gulf, gave this assessment March 27: "The enemy we?re fighting is a bit different than the one we wargamed against, because of these (fedayeen) paramilitary forces."

My translation: US war planners didn?t anticipate extensive death squad tactics.

Military staffs use "game" techniques, experience, and current intelligence data to examine friendly and enemy combat options. They attempt to "see the battle as our enemy sees it and fight the battle his way, not our way." Goals include spurring creative thinking and exposing assumptions to critique. Commanders try to use these insights to craft better plans. A recognized weakness in U.S. wargaming is the "fake bad guys" rarely prove to be as ruthless as the genuine bad guys. Playing "dirty as Saddam" is tough. The real world?s socio-paths and sadists one-up the imaginations of even the best crime writers.

A war plan provides a time frame. No war ever quite follows the plan, for many reasons. The enemy isn?t stupid. The brass doesn?t boss the weather.

Despite the general?s admission, I?m convinced the fedayeen represent more of a political problem than military problem.

The Pacific island campaigns in WWII provide a historical example. Once organized Japanese resistance ceased and the allies had an island?s airfields and ports operating, the brass would declare the place "secure." Infantry regiments would withdraw to refit for the next amphibious assault. The "major operation" was over? but tell that to the Navy SeaBees on the "secure island" who would scrap with snipers for months after the front had officially moved forward.

In Iraq the fedayeen?s low-level resistance could flicker for months. That?s one reason US Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki says peacekeeping in post-Saddam Iraq will require more ground troops.

Guerrillas need popular support, but the Iraqi people fear the fedayeen. British troops report civilians are telling them where the paramilitaries hide. The population isn?t protecting the fascists. That suggests pro-Saddam holdouts may use guerrilla tactics but they?re death squads, not a guerrilla force.

Baghdad is the real "big game." Thus the more discerning question: "How long will major military operations continue until the game is up in Baghdad?"

No outsider has CENTCOM?s war plan or current intel.

Outsiders have to crack a "best guess" with open sources.

In early February, using a wargame originally developed in 1990 for ABC News Nightline, I looked at several Iraq attack options.

The allied forces actually in Kuwait on March 20 appeared in those games. However, the games also included the US 4th Infantry Division and one brigade of the US 1st Armored Division. Those units weren?t in the line March 20th.

An option close to what appears to be the actual plan was dubbed "The Slow Roll." "The Slow Roll" had two variants, one with two fronts (Turkey and Kuwait) and one with a "Kuwait only" front. The game assumptions included US air supremacy, abundant smart bombs, and stiff Republican Guard resistance.

Major combat operations ?meaning the destruction of Repubican Guard units around Baghdad-- took 15 days to 25 days to conclude. With a northern front and no hitches, 15 days. The south-only attack took 25 days, but that was with the presence of the 4th Infantry Division. One had parachute and helicopter units seizing the big airfields in western Iraq. Apparently CENTCOM took those with Green Berets.

"The Slow Roll" did get a few things right. It assumed the allies would try to minimize civilian casualties and protect oil facilities. The gaming does suggest that until the 4th Infantry arrives the allies risk a shortage of combat troops? a worry voiced by several old soldiers. Add the 4th Infantry?s arrival time and the games indicate big operations could last five to six weeks. I?ll trot out that guess, fully aware history pummels guess work. However, it?s a fair bet that the destruction of the Republican Guards will mean the political destruction of Saddam?s regime. The February games missed the 3rd Infantry?s jaw-dropping dash to Baghdad. CENTCOM may well have another surprise.

To find out more about Austin Bay and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com.

COPYRIGHT 2001 - 2003 CREATORS SYNDICATE, INC.
 

Terryray

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ooh! Ya got me!

ooh! Ya got me!

I'm ashamed to be posting something by someone who was wrong. I do need to consult folks who are infallable.

Attacking the messenger first and calling names is definitely the way to start approaching any analytical task.
 

StevieD

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I'm ashamed to be posting something by someone who was wrong. I do need to consult folks who are infallable.

Attacking the messenger first and calling names is definitely the way to start approaching any analytical task.
I didn't call you a name. I simply stated proof that somebody that you put up as an expert was wrong on his assetment of the war. Yet, he still calls himself an expert. We have a bunch of guys doing that. The Vice President for one. I have posted this question various times and no one ever answers. So I will try again. What has Cheney ever said Iraq that has been right?
Not sure why you think I called you a name. :shrug:
 

djv

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It's so easy to see why the so called experts are missing the point this time. Being a young man in the 60's and seeing the protests up close. Those 18 to 25 year old hippies as everyone called them in 60's. That are now in Congress and CEO's even Bus Drivers, to mention a few. These protester's I saw on t V this weekend had a different look. So many over the age of 35/40 even 50's. That is the change this time. No age group is being fooled.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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All you have to to is look at radical elements organizing protests--your ave Joe citizen- I think not.

If you believe it is then you'll also believe the polls the liberal press put out that djv continues to quote--they said same thing in 04 and we know what the REAL poll proved.

Only people that look at who these protestors are and can't figure it out are the same that say--

"Iraq was not a breeding ground for Terrorists under Hussein."

What do you call someone that gases thousands--kills thousands more puts in mass graves--and funds suicide bombers and their families--:shrug:

Liberal logic at it finest.

I got news for you--any country with radical muslims is breeding gound for terrorist--and we have major element right in U.S.--without going into who again--lets say they support same party as the radical protestors--

--and while on that subject--since every element of the radical protestors is liberal--could there be remote possibilty that their concern is not war--but using war as political tool. --Duh
 

JCDunkDogs

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...every element of the radical protestors is liberal...

Hmm. Is liberal synonymous with radical? Subject for another thread, I suppose. I'm just happy that people are exercising their 1st Amendment right to free speech.

Say, why don't the "silent majority" get out there with signs to march and tell the world how worthy the war is? Get cracking!
 

gardenweasel

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there were three kinds of protesters out there... old farts, young dweebs and militant islamists & marxists.....

the young dweebs are rich-kid students who have no experience of life outside of home or campus...and they are the ones that really concern me....

a whole new generation on display...... a generation carefully never taught critical thinking yet filled with self esteem......

lol....i was sitting in my living room watching c-span`s coverage of this dysfunctional spring break....

then i realized i was chanting...,"NO MORE CHANTING"..."NO MORE CHANTING".....
 

StevieD

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All you have to to is look at radical elements organizing protests--your ave Joe citizen- I think not.

If you believe it is then you'll also believe the polls the liberal press put out that djv continues to quote--they said same thing in 04 and we know what the REAL poll proved.

Only people that look at who these protestors are and can't figure it out are the same that say--

"Iraq was not a breeding ground for Terrorists under Hussein."

What do you call someone that gases thousands--kills thousands more puts in mass graves--and funds suicide bombers and their families--:shrug:

Liberal logic at it finest.

I got news for you--any country with radical muslims is breeding gound for terrorist--and we have major element right in U.S.--without going into who again--lets say they support same party as the radical protestors--

--and while on that subject--since every element of the radical protestors is liberal--could there be remote possibilty that their concern is not war--but using war as political tool. --Duh

At the time he did it Rumsfeld and Reagan called him Friend.
 

smurphy

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What exactly are you bitching about, Dogs? Freedom of speech - or just freedom of speech when it's expressed by people who disagree with you?
 

smurphy

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At the time he did it Rumsfeld and Reagan called him Friend.
Precisely! But they never acknowledge that TRUTH. They just waiot a few weeks and then say the same thing again, hoping maybe we'd forget the actual reality of the Saddam/US relationship in the 1980's. I guarantee you that DTB will not respond to your post.
 

ImFeklhr

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ANSWER characterizes itself as anti-imperialist, and its steering committee consists of socialists, Marxists, civil rights advocates, and left-wing progressive organizations from the Muslim, Arab, Palestinian, Filipino, Haitian, and Latin American communities.

Not the Filipinos!!?!?! Damn those crafty devils.

The tide has truly turned.
 
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