nopepper, asked me to tell the story of what I went through with a tout service, when they used to have these free scores phones so you could get updates on scores and odds before cell phones went balistic into technology, they would advertise certain handicappers and one of them was 'absolutely free for the whole weekend of football including the NFL'. Ok, so I wanted to make some serious cash, and see if these folks were for real. :shrug:
So I call the 800# and these guys are real sharp, caller ids, etc., and all go by the same last name, he tells me about this and that, he wanted to get to know me as a person first, blowing sunshine up my ass so to speak to get in my good graces. I was skeptical of course, I had made money only on playing 5 or 6 games a month in football, mostly in college and tinkered with football pools picking SU winners in the NFL in a weekly $1,000 contest at an office, ya know what I mean? I'm sure many of you have done pools or are doing pools of some sort, so anyways, after this guy.....JP, are the initials of this person, not his real name of course, they never use their real fokken name, but my real name is Bill of course, LOL, anyways, he asks me what I put on a game, if I got a sheet from my book, did my book adjust lines on the weekend, etc., and I gave him all that info and he says ok, I'll give you some plays tomorrow and I want you to take this one solid team bet this team straight and parlay this team, U of Houston a pk with Vegas line at that time and parlay it with this team A, that team B, this team C, etc. Houston won easily that day and and the parlays split, going 3-3, but made money. Since I was feelin this guy out I bet like $11 straight action on Houston and $5 parlays, just to feel this 'tout' out, was he for real, etc. I normally played $110 per unit on college action at that time and never played two teamers, I would play round robins if I felt really good. So that afternoon after Houston hits the early game and splits on the early action parlays, JP calls me at work, I owned a pizza joint at the time in Oh-by-GOD-maha, JP says "How did you like that hit? Did you like the winner?" I said, my book moved the line to -3 on Houston so I passed JP, so JP calls me a 'pussy'! I said, ok, JP, whatever. He says, you fokken idiot, did you play a dollar and nickel parlays? I said, ummmm, no!! So how did this fokken guy know what I bet? Tada, my bookie told him or knew him is the only way, unless JP tapped my phone line from work, I only had 2 lines, and you had to have a search warrant or subpoena to have your phone tapped by the feds or local PD, you know? So I caught on quickly, my bookie knew this focker JP!! So anyway, JP cools down and says ok, I got some evening action that will blow your mind away and when it hits I want you to send me $500. I said, "$500? I thought you were giving the picks for free this weekend JP?" He said, ain't nothing free Pal, you got your first freebie on Houston but I want $100 on top of the $400 I normally charge for this late action. I told him to go fock himself, he comes back on the phone and apologizes again and he says, hear is my western union, I want you to WU $500 to me after you win this late straight action and parlays. So a couple of my buddies I team up with on my 5* plays I normally kick my man's ass on, decide to put up some huge money, what they normally would use for the NFL on Sunday, on this late straight play and parlay it the number of times with the other teams and do straight bets on the parlays teams. The evening play was Oregon -17 1/2, they were playing Washington State, and he gives me 6 other teams to play parlays with, Toledo, Memphis, Arkansas, Tulane, E Carolina and Georgia, every game hit, even the parlays, we cashed in the following Tuesday when we settled with my local guy, but before that, JP calls me at fokken midnight at my home, I didn't give him my home phone number, I got caller id too, so every time he calls his call goes to my voicemail box, you know the lil box that you set to 3 rings and it instantly goes to voicemail? Ya, that dinosaur machine. He leaves me a message to call him by 1 am and that he has some great plays for Sunday NFL. We are up like $2,500 not including the action we placed on our own that weekend with action pending already on Sunday.
So Sunday am, I drive to work and when I get there, the phone is blowing up, I gotz caller id, you see, I'm not a dimwit, plus I'm a business man and I own a pizza joint, LOL! So it's KC on the phone, JP's brother. KC says "So Bill, you did good last night with Oregon and the parlays didn't ya? How did you like that? Do you think we are for real now?" I told KC, sorry KC, my book was closed after 6 pm so he wouldn't take any late action. He says, bullshit!! I know you played. So I go back to my short term memory and I'm fuming now, I know my book told him or someone in my books office, told KC and JP and all the Prices, what I played and for how much. So KC says, I need you to go Western Union me $500 and when we get it, I'll call you back and give you these 4 NFL plays and they will go 4 and you can cash in big with your guy!! I'm laughing inside. KC states, "you know we are for real now pal, don't you?" I said, well this is a free weekend and the plays are supposed to be free, so leave me alone, thank you and I don't need your 4 NFL plays, I'll do just fine on my own. KC says, you will lose and I'm laughing, ok KC, who do I have since you know what action I put in yesterday? He says, "I don't know what you are talking about!" So I tell him again, you already know what line I had yesterday for the Houston game, you said you know that I put in action on Oregon and the parlays and hit big, so where did you get the information unless you know my book?" He says, oh, it was a wild guess, we know folks like to test drive our picks and stiff us, etc. Then I tell him nicely again, KC, I appreciate the free weekend, I don't own you jack shit, and have a good day and don't call me anymore. So for the next 8 weeks, they call me every friggin Saturday morning and Sunday morning, so I get fed up with it and turn them over to the feds, stating these guys in Califonria are threatening me over the phone, saying I owe them money, etc., I don't know what they are talking about and here is their number. Well after that lil discussion, my local closes up shop, he stiffs me for $6,400 and he gives my name to the "Paradise Casino", an off-shore, legal casino. This outfit started calling me, gave me a comp of $5,000 for week 1 of the basketball season in 1996 about 2-3 years after I got JP off my back. I thought wow! That should be the end of this guy and he leaves me alone, Paradise Casino leaves me alone too, but then I go onto read this information about 9-10 years later:
" sinnfein
3/30/04
anybody ever done buisness with this guy on sports betting? he requires a
small fee to get started sounds a little fishy to me he gave me one free
game and they did cover but that dont mean he is worth it just wondering
if anybody has used him before ? is he legit? thanx in advance
Omaha Whiz
3/30/04
SCAM..
GIVES HALF THE COUNTRY ONE SIDE.. HALF THE OTHER SIDE.. THEN SELLS HIS
ERVICE FOR 100'S PER MONTH...BEST THING, DO YOURT OWN RESEARCH SO YOU HAVE
NO ONE TO BLAME BUT YOURSELF...TRY
The Beet Man
3/30/04
On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:36:23 GMT, "sinnfein" <anon...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>anybody ever done buisness with this guy on sports betting?
No.
>he requires a
>small fee to get started sounds a little fishy to me he gave me one free
>game and they did cover but that dont mean he is worth it just wondering
>if anybody has used him before ? is he legit?
No. He's a typical scamdicapper.
I'm not sure which sportsbook gave away my phone number, but that
asshole calls me a couple times a week at all sorts of strange hours,
including as early as 9am one Saturday morning.
--
This post brought to you courtesy of the Beet Man!
TD
3/30/04
OT: a voice of experience
On Mar 30 2004 6:36PM, sinnfein wrote:
> anybody ever done buisness with this guy on sports betting? he requires a
> small fee to get started sounds a little fishy to me he gave me one free
> game and they did cover but that dont mean he is worth it just wondering
> if anybody has used him before ? is he legit? thanx in advance
When I was taking wagers from players that used touts I never had a long
term worry. They might be hot for a week or two on
football,basketball,.....
but during an entire season they would add favorably to my bottom line.
My biggest fears was letting the wives choose a game or two based on
uniform, mascot, good looking quarterback. Now that scared me. Out of
hundreds of players over the years never had more than 2 or 3 players a
year end up winning money. The players that did win bet very few games in
a season, not even as many as one a week. Easy to lose that player just
change my phone number midseason and not give it to him. Always settling
up debt before this.
I was just like the casinos they don't want anybody to win, particularly
someone with knowledge, for example blackjack counters teams or
individuals.
Some player that wins a few hundred a season (no big deal). A player that
bets a big nickel to a big dime (10000) that is a winner was not welcome.
He affects the bottom line too much at the end of the year.
My advice is let your parrots newspaper lining or your girlfriend make
your picks. The best advice is to bet for fun and bet within your means
and don't believe you wil
l be sitting in the Vegas books making a living
this time next year.
regards,
TD
Jeff
06-16-2000, 05:32 PM
I've heard that the two guys from Paradise Casino were sentenced the other day.........
11 MILLION DOLLAR FINE
and Two years probabtion.
Can anyone confirm this? 11 Million seems high......
JohnnyDeMarco
06-16-2000, 05:49 PM
This is true. One thing you have to say about the Paradise situation unlike others that were closed. They did it with class. Everybody was paid every single cent they were owed. Every customer, every vendor.
Rich
06-16-2000, 05:59 PM
Isn't their something in the Constitution
about execisive fines?
JohnnyDeMarco
06-16-2000, 06:04 PM
Remember, the PC was prosecuted by the IRS, not the FBI. I'm just happy that nobody went to jail and everybody got paid. So many times here in this very forum we read about people getting stiffed.
bighands
06-18-2000, 11:23 AM
i would be happy to pay 11m and a walk if i had 25m in my pocket....nice job.
thedevil
06-18-2000, 12:16 PM
Bighands
What if you only had 10 and had to borrow 1, how happy would you be then.
The bad side of this story, outside of the fact that they were extorted by the US govt is that everyone assumes they made a fortune in this business. I Don't think that was the case. 3 or 4 years of hard work and the govt stepped in and took all the profits and then some.
THE DEVIL
[This message has been edited by thedevil (edited 06-18-2000).]
JohnnyDeMarco
06-18-2000, 03:59 PM
Devil,
You are correct. The US Government took all profits and then some. Devil, what do you know about exise(sp?) tax? Should it apply to offshore stores and what rate should it be?
thedevil
06-18-2000, 08:49 PM
Johnny D,
The only thing I know about excise tax is that I was charged with excise tax evasion in 1985. At the time the govt wanted 5% of every dollar bet with me, they wanted all the juice and didn't even want to share expenses.
For years I would get a federal tax on wagering form.They wanted to know how much I booked, what I laid off and my profits. Nice. Even though I'm considered illegal by state govt's I'm a good guy according to the feds.
Don't have a clue if it applies to offshore.
I think the tax is now 2% but I'm not certain. Don't think it should as most legit places pay taxes to the local govts. Curacao is about 5% tax on profits. Don't think anyone shoud pay twice.
THE DEVIL
I Hate The Braves
06-18-2000, 09:15 PM
Oh yeah, like the average person is supposed to feel sorry for John DeMarco (John Edens) and Jack Price (Mark Maroni)!!!!!
You have got to be kidding me! These guys spend a decade or more sucking the life blood out of people who call thier numbers, screwing everyone in the sports service business and then because they run paradise honestly for about two years they suddenly become worthy of our sympathy? It's easy be honest after you've built your fortune by screwing people you're whole life. So Price got probation and 11 million dollar fine, but what did Demarco get when he plead? Big Hands was right, if Price paid 11 million he must have made at least that much under the table. You think these guys kept honest books and din't bleed a whole lot of cash out of their business? Don't be naive guys.
So John, if your friend Price is truly broke then how comes his sports service is still opertating? If the feds soaked you for so much, how come you seem to be doing so well these days?
Nobody deserves to go to jail for something as "victimless" as gambling or tax evasion, but that doesn't mean you have to feel sorry for these vultures either.
JohnnyDeMarco
06-18-2000, 10:06 PM
I Hate the braves,
Nobody said JP was completely broke. Nobody is asking you to feel sorry for anyone. Fact of the matter is, you'd trade places with him in a minute. You may not like the way he runs his sports service business, but the bottom line is everyone at PC got paid period. You don't know the whole story. The feds wanted it all. Players deposits, casino profits, all of it. They wanted to make an example of the PC. That way everyone would be scared to play offshore. The PC did keep clean books, the Federal people combed them top to bottom. Addressing your issue about Jack Price sports service,if you have any complaints at all about his 900 number, win, lose or draw, he'll give you your money back-no questions asked. Plus, just like me, he forces no-one to call him. Why is it that people like you can pop off with absolutely no clue what you're talking about. One more thing about me, I didn't plea to anything. I did my deal with the civil side of the IRS. Many people think I owned part of the PC,I didn't. I just did the advertising. I did pretty well at it too.
Devil,
I think the feds now want 2% tax for illegal books and .25% for legal books.
[This message has been edited by JohnnyDeMarco (edited 06-18-2000).]
thedevil
06-18-2000, 10:47 PM
JD !!
I guess in my neighborhood it would be 2%.
ARE YOU SAYING THE GOVT. FEELS OFFSHORES ARE LEGAL AND SHOULD PAY.25% OR ARE YOU REFFERING TO VEGAS BOOKS.
the devil
skeptic
06-19-2000, 01:22 AM
A few things here.
The federal excise tax is 2 % but there is an exception in the law for Nevada that they only need to pay .25 %. This selective favoritism has never been challenged in court and probably would not hold up constitutionally, I think it would fail under "equal protection under the law" principles. But, so far, nobody has had the balls to challenge it.
Applicability:
As far as I understand it this tax only applies to US based operations. The same way a foreign company can't get hit up for sales tax. Am even better example is order something over the phone while you are in NY from California. The CA company doesn't charge you sales tax and the state of NY would never go after the CA company for the NY sales tax. Think about it. Of course the Feds will try to bleed money out of people whenever they can. It sounds likie these "taxes/fines" weren't contested in court but agreed to, so again no challenge to them.
Paradise's books:
You say they kept clean books and the Fed's combed through every one.
WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH THAT??? Paradise was supposed to be an offshore operation. If that were so the feds would not have any access to the books. Sure they could track the money transfers but they wouldn't ever know the whole picture. Why was that material ever turned over to them? I'll answer my own question here based on what I have read.
Because Paradise was not a true offshore operation. They had US assets and they funneled monies through a Nevada corporation. We will never really know how much of their business was actually conducted offshore. And finally this might answer the question as to why the Fed's were due the excise tax. Was it because they were actually operating out of the US?
We will never know the whole story.
Tom0Co
06-19-2000, 10:36 AM
I think you're on target skeptic. Here's a story of interest regarding a "domestic off-shore"...
Proprietors of online casino indicted
BY HOWARD MINTZ
Mercury News
In a case that could test the murky legal restrictions on Internet gambling, a federal grand jury in San Jose on Wednesday indicted the operators of a Silicon Valley-based online casino that allegedly netted millions of dollars in wagers from cyber-bettors.
The two-count indictment charges David Brown, 45, of Gilroy, and Raymond Clark, 46, of British Columbia, with violating federal gambling laws through the Las Vegas-style Web sites they established between 1996 and last year. Brown also was charged with tax evasion for allegedly failing to report more than $330,000 in income in 1997.
The indictment, the first attempt to crack down on a Silicon Valley-based online gambling venture, comes amid growing concern in law enforcement circles about the proliferation of gambling-related Web sites on the Internet. Particularly because the Web sites have an international reach, legal experts say that U.S. laws are difficult to apply to the industry.
Congress is debating legislation called the Internet Gambling Prohibition Act, but it is bogged down in political infighting and may be sidetracked, as were earlier legislative attempts to address the unsettled legal questions.
In the meantime, Wednesday's indictment in San Jose federal court may illustrate some of the difficulties prosecutors confront when they press a criminal case against a gambling Web site. Entrepreneurs like Brown have maintained that such sites can be operated in compliance with federal and state laws.
San Francisco attorney Nanci Clarence, who represents Brown, could not be reached for comment Wednesday. But in an interview last summer, she made it clear that she believes federal authorities are going overboard in their case against Brown.
``They swarmed in on this man and his family like a horde of locusts,'' she said. ``We believe this was a lawful use of the Internet -- his gaming structure does not run afoul of the gambling prohibition.''
The investigation into the online casino operation surfaced last year, when federal prosecutors filed a lawsuit seeking to seize Brown's $1 million house in an exclusive neighborhood in the Gilroy hills, alleging it was purchased with proceeds from an illegal betting venture.
According to court papers filed by the government, Brown registered several gambling Web sites in offshore locations such as the Dominican Republic, where online casino betting is legal and booming. The Web sites offered a host of Vegas-style gaming options, from online blackjack and poker to slot machines, lotto and roulette.
Court papers say that Brown operated the computers for the Web sites from a leased Sunnyvale office.
The indictment alleges that Brown and Clark processed at least $6 million in credit card transactions through as many as 17 gaming Web sites. The earlier lawsuit alleged that the gaming venture took in $30,000 in profits per day before it shut down last year.
In addition to the house, federal prosecutors are attempting to seize other property from Brown, including a 1998 Ferrari and a 1998 Piper Seneca airplane.
Brown's case might offer local officials a tough test. He set up his Web sites to comply with California's gambling laws by offering customers the option to play for free, which his lawyers believe allowed him to avoid wagering restrictions. About three-quarters of the bettors did pay to play for money.
In an interview last year, Clarence, his defense lawyer, said, ``This was a contest instead of gambling. The games allowed people to play and win without paying. It's an open question in the courts about whether that (violates) the gambling laws.''
No court dates have been set yet in the case."
So the moral of the whole story is, "DON'T PAY FOR PICKS!" When someone says, this weekend is "FREE" just call this number, no credit card needed, etc., your information won't be given out, etc., guess what? It's all a fokken lie folks!!
If you can't cap on your own and you enjoy gambling and want to make money doing it? Do your homework, stick with your gut and if you can't win at picking your own games, "DON'T FOKKEN GAMBLE"! Save your money!! Go buy your kids or lady something special and if you are a lady, go get something for yourself or your loved ones or get your oil changed in your BMW, or whatever!! Don't waste it, but if you must, get some documented sports monitoring information from Oklahoma City or VegasWatch, get a 5-10 year history on the service, and if they are legit, then be my guest and do what you will, but again, do your homework!!
I hope you enjoyed this story, nopepper, cuz my version is true and some of the names were changed to protect the innocent! :SIB
Thanks!!
WB
So I call the 800# and these guys are real sharp, caller ids, etc., and all go by the same last name, he tells me about this and that, he wanted to get to know me as a person first, blowing sunshine up my ass so to speak to get in my good graces. I was skeptical of course, I had made money only on playing 5 or 6 games a month in football, mostly in college and tinkered with football pools picking SU winners in the NFL in a weekly $1,000 contest at an office, ya know what I mean? I'm sure many of you have done pools or are doing pools of some sort, so anyways, after this guy.....JP, are the initials of this person, not his real name of course, they never use their real fokken name, but my real name is Bill of course, LOL, anyways, he asks me what I put on a game, if I got a sheet from my book, did my book adjust lines on the weekend, etc., and I gave him all that info and he says ok, I'll give you some plays tomorrow and I want you to take this one solid team bet this team straight and parlay this team, U of Houston a pk with Vegas line at that time and parlay it with this team A, that team B, this team C, etc. Houston won easily that day and and the parlays split, going 3-3, but made money. Since I was feelin this guy out I bet like $11 straight action on Houston and $5 parlays, just to feel this 'tout' out, was he for real, etc. I normally played $110 per unit on college action at that time and never played two teamers, I would play round robins if I felt really good. So that afternoon after Houston hits the early game and splits on the early action parlays, JP calls me at work, I owned a pizza joint at the time in Oh-by-GOD-maha, JP says "How did you like that hit? Did you like the winner?" I said, my book moved the line to -3 on Houston so I passed JP, so JP calls me a 'pussy'! I said, ok, JP, whatever. He says, you fokken idiot, did you play a dollar and nickel parlays? I said, ummmm, no!! So how did this fokken guy know what I bet? Tada, my bookie told him or knew him is the only way, unless JP tapped my phone line from work, I only had 2 lines, and you had to have a search warrant or subpoena to have your phone tapped by the feds or local PD, you know? So I caught on quickly, my bookie knew this focker JP!! So anyway, JP cools down and says ok, I got some evening action that will blow your mind away and when it hits I want you to send me $500. I said, "$500? I thought you were giving the picks for free this weekend JP?" He said, ain't nothing free Pal, you got your first freebie on Houston but I want $100 on top of the $400 I normally charge for this late action. I told him to go fock himself, he comes back on the phone and apologizes again and he says, hear is my western union, I want you to WU $500 to me after you win this late straight action and parlays. So a couple of my buddies I team up with on my 5* plays I normally kick my man's ass on, decide to put up some huge money, what they normally would use for the NFL on Sunday, on this late straight play and parlay it the number of times with the other teams and do straight bets on the parlays teams. The evening play was Oregon -17 1/2, they were playing Washington State, and he gives me 6 other teams to play parlays with, Toledo, Memphis, Arkansas, Tulane, E Carolina and Georgia, every game hit, even the parlays, we cashed in the following Tuesday when we settled with my local guy, but before that, JP calls me at fokken midnight at my home, I didn't give him my home phone number, I got caller id too, so every time he calls his call goes to my voicemail box, you know the lil box that you set to 3 rings and it instantly goes to voicemail? Ya, that dinosaur machine. He leaves me a message to call him by 1 am and that he has some great plays for Sunday NFL. We are up like $2,500 not including the action we placed on our own that weekend with action pending already on Sunday.
So Sunday am, I drive to work and when I get there, the phone is blowing up, I gotz caller id, you see, I'm not a dimwit, plus I'm a business man and I own a pizza joint, LOL! So it's KC on the phone, JP's brother. KC says "So Bill, you did good last night with Oregon and the parlays didn't ya? How did you like that? Do you think we are for real now?" I told KC, sorry KC, my book was closed after 6 pm so he wouldn't take any late action. He says, bullshit!! I know you played. So I go back to my short term memory and I'm fuming now, I know my book told him or someone in my books office, told KC and JP and all the Prices, what I played and for how much. So KC says, I need you to go Western Union me $500 and when we get it, I'll call you back and give you these 4 NFL plays and they will go 4 and you can cash in big with your guy!! I'm laughing inside. KC states, "you know we are for real now pal, don't you?" I said, well this is a free weekend and the plays are supposed to be free, so leave me alone, thank you and I don't need your 4 NFL plays, I'll do just fine on my own. KC says, you will lose and I'm laughing, ok KC, who do I have since you know what action I put in yesterday? He says, "I don't know what you are talking about!" So I tell him again, you already know what line I had yesterday for the Houston game, you said you know that I put in action on Oregon and the parlays and hit big, so where did you get the information unless you know my book?" He says, oh, it was a wild guess, we know folks like to test drive our picks and stiff us, etc. Then I tell him nicely again, KC, I appreciate the free weekend, I don't own you jack shit, and have a good day and don't call me anymore. So for the next 8 weeks, they call me every friggin Saturday morning and Sunday morning, so I get fed up with it and turn them over to the feds, stating these guys in Califonria are threatening me over the phone, saying I owe them money, etc., I don't know what they are talking about and here is their number. Well after that lil discussion, my local closes up shop, he stiffs me for $6,400 and he gives my name to the "Paradise Casino", an off-shore, legal casino. This outfit started calling me, gave me a comp of $5,000 for week 1 of the basketball season in 1996 about 2-3 years after I got JP off my back. I thought wow! That should be the end of this guy and he leaves me alone, Paradise Casino leaves me alone too, but then I go onto read this information about 9-10 years later:
" sinnfein
3/30/04
anybody ever done buisness with this guy on sports betting? he requires a
small fee to get started sounds a little fishy to me he gave me one free
game and they did cover but that dont mean he is worth it just wondering
if anybody has used him before ? is he legit? thanx in advance
Omaha Whiz
3/30/04
SCAM..
GIVES HALF THE COUNTRY ONE SIDE.. HALF THE OTHER SIDE.. THEN SELLS HIS
ERVICE FOR 100'S PER MONTH...BEST THING, DO YOURT OWN RESEARCH SO YOU HAVE
NO ONE TO BLAME BUT YOURSELF...TRY
The Beet Man
3/30/04
On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:36:23 GMT, "sinnfein" <anon...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>anybody ever done buisness with this guy on sports betting?
No.
>he requires a
>small fee to get started sounds a little fishy to me he gave me one free
>game and they did cover but that dont mean he is worth it just wondering
>if anybody has used him before ? is he legit?
No. He's a typical scamdicapper.
I'm not sure which sportsbook gave away my phone number, but that
asshole calls me a couple times a week at all sorts of strange hours,
including as early as 9am one Saturday morning.
--
This post brought to you courtesy of the Beet Man!
TD
3/30/04
OT: a voice of experience
On Mar 30 2004 6:36PM, sinnfein wrote:
> anybody ever done buisness with this guy on sports betting? he requires a
> small fee to get started sounds a little fishy to me he gave me one free
> game and they did cover but that dont mean he is worth it just wondering
> if anybody has used him before ? is he legit? thanx in advance
When I was taking wagers from players that used touts I never had a long
term worry. They might be hot for a week or two on
football,basketball,.....
but during an entire season they would add favorably to my bottom line.
My biggest fears was letting the wives choose a game or two based on
uniform, mascot, good looking quarterback. Now that scared me. Out of
hundreds of players over the years never had more than 2 or 3 players a
year end up winning money. The players that did win bet very few games in
a season, not even as many as one a week. Easy to lose that player just
change my phone number midseason and not give it to him. Always settling
up debt before this.
I was just like the casinos they don't want anybody to win, particularly
someone with knowledge, for example blackjack counters teams or
individuals.
Some player that wins a few hundred a season (no big deal). A player that
bets a big nickel to a big dime (10000) that is a winner was not welcome.
He affects the bottom line too much at the end of the year.
My advice is let your parrots newspaper lining or your girlfriend make
your picks. The best advice is to bet for fun and bet within your means
and don't believe you wil
l be sitting in the Vegas books making a living
this time next year.
regards,
TD
Jeff
06-16-2000, 05:32 PM
I've heard that the two guys from Paradise Casino were sentenced the other day.........
11 MILLION DOLLAR FINE
and Two years probabtion.
Can anyone confirm this? 11 Million seems high......
JohnnyDeMarco
06-16-2000, 05:49 PM
This is true. One thing you have to say about the Paradise situation unlike others that were closed. They did it with class. Everybody was paid every single cent they were owed. Every customer, every vendor.
Rich
06-16-2000, 05:59 PM
Isn't their something in the Constitution
about execisive fines?
JohnnyDeMarco
06-16-2000, 06:04 PM
Remember, the PC was prosecuted by the IRS, not the FBI. I'm just happy that nobody went to jail and everybody got paid. So many times here in this very forum we read about people getting stiffed.
bighands
06-18-2000, 11:23 AM
i would be happy to pay 11m and a walk if i had 25m in my pocket....nice job.
thedevil
06-18-2000, 12:16 PM
Bighands
What if you only had 10 and had to borrow 1, how happy would you be then.
The bad side of this story, outside of the fact that they were extorted by the US govt is that everyone assumes they made a fortune in this business. I Don't think that was the case. 3 or 4 years of hard work and the govt stepped in and took all the profits and then some.
THE DEVIL
[This message has been edited by thedevil (edited 06-18-2000).]
JohnnyDeMarco
06-18-2000, 03:59 PM
Devil,
You are correct. The US Government took all profits and then some. Devil, what do you know about exise(sp?) tax? Should it apply to offshore stores and what rate should it be?
thedevil
06-18-2000, 08:49 PM
Johnny D,
The only thing I know about excise tax is that I was charged with excise tax evasion in 1985. At the time the govt wanted 5% of every dollar bet with me, they wanted all the juice and didn't even want to share expenses.
For years I would get a federal tax on wagering form.They wanted to know how much I booked, what I laid off and my profits. Nice. Even though I'm considered illegal by state govt's I'm a good guy according to the feds.
Don't have a clue if it applies to offshore.
I think the tax is now 2% but I'm not certain. Don't think it should as most legit places pay taxes to the local govts. Curacao is about 5% tax on profits. Don't think anyone shoud pay twice.
THE DEVIL
I Hate The Braves
06-18-2000, 09:15 PM
Oh yeah, like the average person is supposed to feel sorry for John DeMarco (John Edens) and Jack Price (Mark Maroni)!!!!!
You have got to be kidding me! These guys spend a decade or more sucking the life blood out of people who call thier numbers, screwing everyone in the sports service business and then because they run paradise honestly for about two years they suddenly become worthy of our sympathy? It's easy be honest after you've built your fortune by screwing people you're whole life. So Price got probation and 11 million dollar fine, but what did Demarco get when he plead? Big Hands was right, if Price paid 11 million he must have made at least that much under the table. You think these guys kept honest books and din't bleed a whole lot of cash out of their business? Don't be naive guys.
So John, if your friend Price is truly broke then how comes his sports service is still opertating? If the feds soaked you for so much, how come you seem to be doing so well these days?
Nobody deserves to go to jail for something as "victimless" as gambling or tax evasion, but that doesn't mean you have to feel sorry for these vultures either.
JohnnyDeMarco
06-18-2000, 10:06 PM
I Hate the braves,
Nobody said JP was completely broke. Nobody is asking you to feel sorry for anyone. Fact of the matter is, you'd trade places with him in a minute. You may not like the way he runs his sports service business, but the bottom line is everyone at PC got paid period. You don't know the whole story. The feds wanted it all. Players deposits, casino profits, all of it. They wanted to make an example of the PC. That way everyone would be scared to play offshore. The PC did keep clean books, the Federal people combed them top to bottom. Addressing your issue about Jack Price sports service,if you have any complaints at all about his 900 number, win, lose or draw, he'll give you your money back-no questions asked. Plus, just like me, he forces no-one to call him. Why is it that people like you can pop off with absolutely no clue what you're talking about. One more thing about me, I didn't plea to anything. I did my deal with the civil side of the IRS. Many people think I owned part of the PC,I didn't. I just did the advertising. I did pretty well at it too.
Devil,
I think the feds now want 2% tax for illegal books and .25% for legal books.
[This message has been edited by JohnnyDeMarco (edited 06-18-2000).]
thedevil
06-18-2000, 10:47 PM
JD !!
I guess in my neighborhood it would be 2%.
ARE YOU SAYING THE GOVT. FEELS OFFSHORES ARE LEGAL AND SHOULD PAY.25% OR ARE YOU REFFERING TO VEGAS BOOKS.
the devil
skeptic
06-19-2000, 01:22 AM
A few things here.
The federal excise tax is 2 % but there is an exception in the law for Nevada that they only need to pay .25 %. This selective favoritism has never been challenged in court and probably would not hold up constitutionally, I think it would fail under "equal protection under the law" principles. But, so far, nobody has had the balls to challenge it.
Applicability:
As far as I understand it this tax only applies to US based operations. The same way a foreign company can't get hit up for sales tax. Am even better example is order something over the phone while you are in NY from California. The CA company doesn't charge you sales tax and the state of NY would never go after the CA company for the NY sales tax. Think about it. Of course the Feds will try to bleed money out of people whenever they can. It sounds likie these "taxes/fines" weren't contested in court but agreed to, so again no challenge to them.
Paradise's books:
You say they kept clean books and the Fed's combed through every one.
WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH THAT??? Paradise was supposed to be an offshore operation. If that were so the feds would not have any access to the books. Sure they could track the money transfers but they wouldn't ever know the whole picture. Why was that material ever turned over to them? I'll answer my own question here based on what I have read.
Because Paradise was not a true offshore operation. They had US assets and they funneled monies through a Nevada corporation. We will never really know how much of their business was actually conducted offshore. And finally this might answer the question as to why the Fed's were due the excise tax. Was it because they were actually operating out of the US?
We will never know the whole story.
Tom0Co
06-19-2000, 10:36 AM
I think you're on target skeptic. Here's a story of interest regarding a "domestic off-shore"...
Proprietors of online casino indicted
BY HOWARD MINTZ
Mercury News
In a case that could test the murky legal restrictions on Internet gambling, a federal grand jury in San Jose on Wednesday indicted the operators of a Silicon Valley-based online casino that allegedly netted millions of dollars in wagers from cyber-bettors.
The two-count indictment charges David Brown, 45, of Gilroy, and Raymond Clark, 46, of British Columbia, with violating federal gambling laws through the Las Vegas-style Web sites they established between 1996 and last year. Brown also was charged with tax evasion for allegedly failing to report more than $330,000 in income in 1997.
The indictment, the first attempt to crack down on a Silicon Valley-based online gambling venture, comes amid growing concern in law enforcement circles about the proliferation of gambling-related Web sites on the Internet. Particularly because the Web sites have an international reach, legal experts say that U.S. laws are difficult to apply to the industry.
Congress is debating legislation called the Internet Gambling Prohibition Act, but it is bogged down in political infighting and may be sidetracked, as were earlier legislative attempts to address the unsettled legal questions.
In the meantime, Wednesday's indictment in San Jose federal court may illustrate some of the difficulties prosecutors confront when they press a criminal case against a gambling Web site. Entrepreneurs like Brown have maintained that such sites can be operated in compliance with federal and state laws.
San Francisco attorney Nanci Clarence, who represents Brown, could not be reached for comment Wednesday. But in an interview last summer, she made it clear that she believes federal authorities are going overboard in their case against Brown.
``They swarmed in on this man and his family like a horde of locusts,'' she said. ``We believe this was a lawful use of the Internet -- his gaming structure does not run afoul of the gambling prohibition.''
The investigation into the online casino operation surfaced last year, when federal prosecutors filed a lawsuit seeking to seize Brown's $1 million house in an exclusive neighborhood in the Gilroy hills, alleging it was purchased with proceeds from an illegal betting venture.
According to court papers filed by the government, Brown registered several gambling Web sites in offshore locations such as the Dominican Republic, where online casino betting is legal and booming. The Web sites offered a host of Vegas-style gaming options, from online blackjack and poker to slot machines, lotto and roulette.
Court papers say that Brown operated the computers for the Web sites from a leased Sunnyvale office.
The indictment alleges that Brown and Clark processed at least $6 million in credit card transactions through as many as 17 gaming Web sites. The earlier lawsuit alleged that the gaming venture took in $30,000 in profits per day before it shut down last year.
In addition to the house, federal prosecutors are attempting to seize other property from Brown, including a 1998 Ferrari and a 1998 Piper Seneca airplane.
Brown's case might offer local officials a tough test. He set up his Web sites to comply with California's gambling laws by offering customers the option to play for free, which his lawyers believe allowed him to avoid wagering restrictions. About three-quarters of the bettors did pay to play for money.
In an interview last year, Clarence, his defense lawyer, said, ``This was a contest instead of gambling. The games allowed people to play and win without paying. It's an open question in the courts about whether that (violates) the gambling laws.''
No court dates have been set yet in the case."
So the moral of the whole story is, "DON'T PAY FOR PICKS!" When someone says, this weekend is "FREE" just call this number, no credit card needed, etc., your information won't be given out, etc., guess what? It's all a fokken lie folks!!
If you can't cap on your own and you enjoy gambling and want to make money doing it? Do your homework, stick with your gut and if you can't win at picking your own games, "DON'T FOKKEN GAMBLE"! Save your money!! Go buy your kids or lady something special and if you are a lady, go get something for yourself or your loved ones or get your oil changed in your BMW, or whatever!! Don't waste it, but if you must, get some documented sports monitoring information from Oklahoma City or VegasWatch, get a 5-10 year history on the service, and if they are legit, then be my guest and do what you will, but again, do your homework!!
I hope you enjoyed this story, nopepper, cuz my version is true and some of the names were changed to protect the innocent! :SIB
Thanks!!
WB
