NASA finds evidence at least part of Mars was covered in water

acehistr8

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March 02, 2004

Opportunity Rover Finds Strong Evidence Meridiani Planum Was Wet

Scientists have concluded the part of Mars that NASA's Opportunity rover is exploring was soaking wet in the past.

Evidence the rover found in a rock outcrop led scientists to the conclusion. Clues from the rocks' composition, such as the presence of sulfates, and the rocks' physical appearance, such as niches where crystals grew, helped make the case for a watery history.

"Liquid water once flowed through these rocks. It changed their texture, and it changed their chemistry," said Dr. Steve Squyres of Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y., principal investigator for the science instruments on Opportunity and its twin, Spirit. "We've been able to read the tell-tale clues the water left behind, giving us confidence in that conclusion."

Dr. James Garvin, lead scientist for Mars and lunar exploration at NASA Headquarters, Washington, said, "NASA launched the Mars Exploration Rover mission specifically to check whether at least one part of Mars ever had a persistently wet environment that could possibly have been hospitable to life. Today we have strong evidence for an exciting answer: Yes."

Opportunity has more work ahead. It will try to determine whether, besides being exposed to water after they formed, the rocks may have originally been laid down by minerals precipitating out of solution at the bottom of a salty lake or sea.

The first views Opportunity sent of its landing site in Mars' Meridiani Planum region five weeks ago delighted researchers at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., because of the good fortune to have the spacecraft arrive next to an exposed slice of bedrock on the inner slope of a small crater.

The robotic field geologist has spent most of the past three weeks surveying the whole outcrop, and then turning back for close-up inspection of selected portions. The rover found a very high concentration of sulfur in the outcrop with its alpha particle X-ray spectrometer, which identifies chemical elements in a sample.
"The chemical form of this sulfur appears to be in magnesium, iron or other sulfate salts," said Dr. Benton Clark of Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver. "Elements that can form chloride or even bromide salts have also been detected."

At the same location, the rover's M?ssbauer spectrometer, which identifies iron-bearing minerals, detected a hydrated iron sulfate mineral called jarosite. Germany provided both the alpha particle X-ray spectrometer and the M?ssbauer spectrometer. Opportunity's miniature thermal emission spectrometer has also provided evidence for sulfates.

On Earth, rocks with as much salt as this Mars rock either have formed in water or, after formation, have been highly altered by long exposures to water. Jarosite may point to the rock's wet history having been in an acidic lake or an acidic hot springs environment.

The water evidence from the rocks' physical appearance comes in at least three categories, said Dr. John Grotzinger, sedimentary geologist from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge: indentations called "vugs," spherules and crossbedding.

Pictures from the rover's panoramic camera and microscopic imager reveal the target rock, dubbed "El Capitan," is thoroughly pocked with indentations about a centimeter (0.4 inch) long and one-fourth or less that wide, with apparently random orientations. This distinctive texture is familiar to geologists as the sites where crystals of salt minerals form within rocks that sit in briny water. When the crystals later disappear, either by erosion or by dissolving in less-salty water, the voids left behind are called vugs, and in this case they conform to the geometry of possible former evaporite minerals.

Round particles the size of BBs are embedded in the outcrop. From shape alone, these spherules might be formed from volcanic eruptions, from lofting of molten droplets by a meteor impact, or from accumulation of minerals coming out of solution inside a porous, water-soaked rock. Opportunity's observations that the spherules are not concentrated at particular layers in the outcrop weigh against a volcanic or impact origin, but do not completely rule out those origins.

Layers in the rock that lie at an angle to the main layers, a pattern called crossbedding, can result from the action of wind or water. Preliminary views by Opportunity hint the crossbedding bears hallmarks of water action, such as the small scale of the crossbedding and possible concave patterns formed by sinuous crestlines of underwater ridges.

The images obtained to date are not adequate for a definitive answer. So scientists plan to maneuver Opportunity closer to the features for a better look. "We have tantalizing clues, and we're planning to evaluate this possibility in the near future," Grotzinger said.

JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the Mars Exploration Rover project for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington.
 
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djv

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I wonder what that means for us on earth. Mars was wet once.
 

Private Petey

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fun bedroom romp

fun bedroom romp

What do Mars and this dolly I humped last weekend have in common? They're both very wet!! Hey Ace, WHO REALLY CARES IF THE MARS ROBOT GOT WET 200 YEARS AGO???? QUIT CLUTTERING THE FORUM WITH YOUR RIDICULOUS POSTS!!!!

P Squared
 

acehistr8

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I'd like to say I care that you have some childish comment to make in every thread I start here but SORRY PETEY CANT HEAR YOUR WHINY DRIVEL ANYMORE, IVE GOT THREE OF YOUR C-NOTES STUFFED IN EACH EAR.

cash.jpg
 
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acehistr8

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Hey man, I was happy to let this dead dog lie, took the quotes down and everything just like he wanted - but pp likes to dredge things back up so hey, fine with me.
 

Private Petey

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bring an umbrella

bring an umbrella

I just checked the stats at bestbettor and going for his fourth straight , acehistr8 is in the lead for the madjacks annual golden shower award that goes to the poster that starts the most idiotic threads. Check it out at bestbettor. YTD standings:

Acehistr8- 53
King of Dicks from Atlanta-29
Rest of the forum combined-12

Good luck Ace, not that you'll need it!!!!

PP
 

THE KOD

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Ace

well you tried to be reasonable but to no avail.

Dipstick Petey still wants to play his mind games.

All bets are off. Follow and insult him forever Ace.

You deserve that much.

Nice win on dropping the hammer on PPs head.

I wonder if I can find that anvil picture.

KOD
 

THE KOD

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djv said:
I wonder what that means for us on earth. Mars was wet once.
..........................................................................

djv

Yeh it don't mean nothing to find water and life on another
planet in our solar system millions of miles away.

The person that came up with the bounce invention took
a simple idea and allowed NASA to land vehicles on Mars.

Wow.

You obviously don't understand the implications of finding water
of any type on Mars. That means there could be creatures alive there. Its a big planet.

Its probably a NASA money issue with you as usual.

You still didnt give me a answer about if you would have taken
the money in the hypothetical situation. You just got mad and
lost your thinking powers.

I think you were able to see yourself falling into temptation and thereby being no better than the ones you detest in America so much that make big money.

KOD
 
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THE KOD

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RexBudler said:
What kind of creature are you talking about Scott and what impact would these so called " Creatures " have on our lives :shrug: just asking
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Rex

I am really interested in the space frontier but I have never
seen a Captain Kirk movie in my life.

I will try to explain. It takes water to have life. Its how all
life starts.

If they can prove there is any kind of salt water any water then
it is likely there are some forms of life on Mars that have adapted over many many years. And Mars is a most inhospitable planet.

We are just one solar system in the Universe.
There are so many we don't know about you cant even count them. Black holes with their gravitational pulls are totally
not understood by us.

If water is found it puts a much higher liklihood that there is
intelligent life out there somewhere.

There is so much we don't know about space. Its really quite
unbelievable what they have been able to accomplish.

But instead of being proud that Americans can achieve this
djv and others just cry about it costing millions and millions.

Well lets say eventually we are able to find other life out there.
We may immediately be able to find cures for all kinds of
world diaseses, cancer, all that stuff.

Then the millions that we spent would appear miniscule.

KOD
 
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THE KOD

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blackhole.jpg

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Black holes are celestial objects with gravity so intense that nothing, not even light, can escape from them once past their boundary, called the event horizon. This makes a black hole invisible, but black holes reveal their presence by their strong pull on matter that is close to -- but not beyond -- their event horizons.

Astronomers want to observe the regions near black holes because they believe that a black hole's powerful gravity will warp the space and time next to it in accord with the bizarre predictions of Einstein's theory.

This observation of warped space, made with the Chandra X-ray Observatory and the XMM-Newton satellite, also offers a novel glimpse inside that chaotic swirl of gas surrounding a black hole, called an accretion disk: The scientists captured bright hotspots in small, localized regions within the disk, a crucial step needed to map such a region.

This support for general relativity comes through an observation of a spectral characteristic of light typically seen emitted around black holes, called a "broad iron K line." With the one-two punch of Chandra's angular resolution and XMM-Newton's X-ray collecting ability, Turner and her colleagues could determine that this spectral feature is a result of strong gravity stealing energy from the light, as Einstein predicted.

"The observation rules out several competing theories attempting to explain the broad iron line," Turner said. "We find that Einstein's predictions ring true."

The dual X-ray observation was of a galaxy named NGC 3516, which is thought to harbor a supermassive black hole in its core. (Black holes come in a variety of sizes; supermassive black holes are the heavyweights, weighing in at millions to billions of times the mass of the Sun.) Gas in this central region glows in X-ray radiation as it is heated to temperatures in the millions of degrees under the force of the black hole's extreme gravity.

Spectral characteristics are features in a graph of light energy, called a spectrograph, which resembles a jagged line with peaks (emission lines) where light shines brightly at a specific energy. In a laboratory, iron gas bombarded with X rays emits them as a result, producing a spike at a specific energy in a spectrograph.

In space, this spike is distorted, depending on the physical conditions in the emitting gas. Hot gas orbiting an object, for example, has a double-horned profile due to the Doppler effect. That is, some gas is moving towards us, slightly boosting the energy of its X-ray emission, and other gas is moving away, slightly reducing the energy of its X-rays. This results in a spectral line with two peaks, one for the boosted X-rays and one for the weakened ones.

Turner and her colleagues observed a very complex profile for the iron K line in NGC 3516. This line showed narrow spikes, likely the Doppler peaks from hotspots in the accretion disk lit up by flaring at 35- and 175-times the black hole radius. These narrow features sit atop a broad line component from light across the entire accretion disk, a spectral feature broadened by gravity's pull.

The combination of narrow and broad features supports Einstein's math, Turner said. Some scientists have suggested that the broad iron K line is due to Comptonization, a process in which light particles collide with electrons and lose energy. If Comptonization were afoot, even light emitted farther away from the black hole (at 35 and 175 radii away) would be broadened as this light interacts with electrons. The presence of the narrow features negates the Comptonization hypothesis and, when coupled with an average broad feature, strongly supports the predictions of general relativity.


Seyfert galaxy NGC 3516 (center source) in the northern sky. The galaxy's bright core is characteristic of an Active Galactic Nucleus, or AGN, whose brightness is most likely powered by a supermassive black hole. Credit: Hubble Space Telescope, by Matt Malkan PI, UCLA Astronomy, obtained with the PC2 through a broad red filter.


The observation of flaring at 35- and 175-times the black hole radius -- a tribute to Chandra's sublime angular resolution -- may provide the first up-close look at a black hole accretion disk, a point of reference necessary to map out the entire disk. "Observations such as these provide crucial constraints on the structure of the accretion flow and its magnetic field, as well as the exciting opportunity to study the physics in the extremely warped space-time surrounding a supermassive black hole," said Dr. Ian George, also of UMBC and NASA Goddard, and a member of the observation team.

"Imagine looking at a distant sand dune," said Dr. Tahir Yaqoob of Johns Hopkins University, also on the team. "A familiar object on the dune, like a palm tree, could help you figure out the height of the dune and your distance from it. We have seen hotspots (the trees) in the gas flow (the sand dune) around a black hole. Using these hotspots will enable us to map the curved space-time around a black hole and also measure the rate at which the space-time is forced to rotate with the hole, providing yet further tests of Einstein's general relativity."

..................................................................

Wonder what would happen if we flew directly into one of
these black holes? would we come out in another solar system ?

maybe we could send beantownjim and PP on a mission to
try this theory out. If we never heard from them they would
have contributed immensely to the human population.

Instead PP will probably follow Ace around for years.

KOD
 
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djv

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KOD you lost me. If you asked me a question that made any kind of sence im sure you got a answer.
As for Mars I dont care if we go to the moon, mars where ever. As long as the needs that must be taken care of here are. I would say were alittle behind on those. As for water being there I really have no idea what that means to us. Im waiting to here more from the experts tonight on cspan as to what that may or maynot mean.
As for PP getting his ass handed to him. He asked for it. Good for Mr 8. He played the bet well.
 

THE KOD

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"The discovery of living microbes just above a hidden freshwater lake 2 miles deep in the frozen Antarctic extends the range of extreme conditions under which life is known to survive.

The finding, which researchers say almost certainly indicates there is a thriving community of microscopic creatures in the ancient, pristine lake, buoys hopes that life may exist elsewhere in the solar system. It also provides some clues about how and where to start looking.

"Our results extend the possible limits for life on Earth and elsewhere in the Universe," said David Karl of the University of Hawaii, lead researcher on one of three studies presented in the December 10 issue of the journal Science. "With each discovery of life in another extreme Earth environment we learn that much more about microbial adaptation, and survival, and physiological strategies for life."

Below an Antarctic glacier, in a spot nearly 10 times as deep as the Empire State Building is tall, lies what researchers believe to be a natural reservoir of fresh water known as Lake Vostok. It is deeper than Lake Tahoe and has an ice-locked "surface" that spans an area as big as New Jersey.

Researchers say Vostok, named for the Russian research station that sits above it, is the largest of nearly 80 sub-Antarctic lakes that have been mapped by airborne radio sounding. It has been known for two decades, and the recent discovery is a milestone during a years-long suspicion that there might be life trapped in the lake.

Intense pressure from the overlying ice generates heat which, combined with geothermal heat from below, is thought to keep the Vostok's million-year-old water in a liquid state. The ice also serves as an insulating blanket.

Some 393 feet (120 meters) above the lake rests the lower end of the deepest ice core ever drilled -- 11,886 feet (3,623 meters) below the frigid surface. There, in freshwater ice that researchers think has migrated upward from the lake, a community of microbes -- extremophiles, defined by the term -- thrive in some of the harshest conditions imaginable.

"There's a first principle among microbial ecologists that states 'Where there's water there's life,'" said Warwick Vincent, a professor of biology at Laval University, Canada. "Lake Vostok is the ultimate test of this principle in one of this world's most hostile places. These new discoveries imply that the 'life everywhere' adage will once again prove correct."

What's down there?

The newly discovered microbes have gone about their business of living sans any contact with the outside world for millions of years. But after running DNA analysis, a team led by John Priscu of Montana State University said the little critters are similar to modern-day organisms, including one called a proteo-bacteria.

"Our research shows us that the microbial world has few limits on our planet," Priscu said.

Vincent, who was not involved in the research, agreed with the other researchers in saying it appears the lake itself has "all the ingredients for an active microbial ecosystem."

It may be a while before that theory is proved, however. Drilling was stopped four years ago to prevent the introduction of anything that might contaminate the water. Delegates from several nations met in September to decide whether and how to explore the lake, but no firm proposal has been accepted.

Regardless, the discovery shows that an extremely cold, dark environment that is cut off from a ready supply of nutrients can still support life. Sealed off from the sources of energy most other known organisms use to survive, it seems the Vostok microbes live off things deposited long ago.

Looking for life off Earth

The fact that organisms have adapted to living in such harsh conditions bolsters the expectation that extraterrestrial life may be waiting to be discovered right here in our solar system. Jupiter's ice-covered moons Europa and Callisto, both thought to contain large oceans, have emerged in recent years as two of the most likely candidates.

Evidence shows that the massive gravity of Jupiter creates "tidal pumping," a pull on the moons, that might generate heat within. Europa, about the size of Earth's moon, has a surface temperature of minus 260 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 162 degrees Celsius), but the constant tugging of Jupiter's gravity may well create enough warmth to keep large parts of Europa's ocean liquid.

"Conditions on Europa are likely similar to those of the ice-covered lakes, but may not be analogous," Karl said. "If Europa has an internal energy pump, either through hydrothermal systems or via tidal pumping, then life may be better off than in Lake Vostok where microbes may be surviving off carbon and energy deposited there a million years ago."

Vincent, the Canadian biologist who also chairs the Canadian Committee for Antarctic Research, expressed both optimism and caution regarding the search for extraterrestrial life.

"The chemistry of the waters of Europa and Callisto appears to be very different relative to that in Lake Vostok," Vincent told space.com. "For example, these vast oceans (the largest in the solar system) are salty while all the evidence, including these most recent lake-ice analyses, shows that Lake Vostok is freshwater."

"I think that the Vostok experience may help in the design of biochemical and molecular probes for the search for life elsewhere," Vincent said. "It will also help in the design of sampling technologies, not only in terms of the challenge of sampling deep ice under conditions of extreme cold, but also in the development of environmentally friendly technologies that will reduce any lasting negative impacts of human exploration throughout the solar system."

Whatever we might find on Europa, Callisto, or any other body in the solar system won't likely look like any conventional alien, experts agree. Don't even expect a small fish, they say. But the mere discovery of simple microbial life elsewhere would hint at the likelihood that life is a far more common occurrence in the universe than we humans might have once thought.
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THE KOD

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WASHINGTON -- Researchers using NASA's Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft announced Thursday that they found puzzling signs of water seeping into what appear to be young, freshly-cut gullies and gaps in the Martian surface.

The startling discovery of recently-formed, weeping layers of rock and sediment has planetary experts scratching their heads.

A Wet Mars Will Keep NASA Busy: Scientists see several ramifications arising from new observations that Mars may not be a dried up and dead world after all. The most immediate issue confronting NASA is a decision to send future spacecraft to Mars to investigate what could be "watering holes" for life.

Study Shows Public Supports Mars Trip: A healthy majority of the public is ready to give the thumbs-up on sending U.S. astronauts to Mars. Theyare also backing the building of a space station. Those are among the findings of a wide-ranging survey released by the National Science Board, a governing body of the National Science Foundation (NSF). Want to Learn More?

The wet spots show up in more than 120 locations on Mars and in the coldest places on the planet, said Michael Malin of Malin Space Science Systems in San Diego, California, which built the spacecraft's camera.

And that presents a "perplexing problem," he said, because logic says that Mars sub-zero temperatures and thin atmosphere should have kept those wet spots from ever forming.

Most are in the Martian southern hemisphere and usually appear on slopes that get the least amount of sunlight during each day. They appear only at latitudes between 30 and 70 degrees. On Earth, that zone would stretch from New Orleans, Louisiana, to Point Barrow, Alaska, in the northern hemisphere and from Sydney, Australia to much of the Antarctic coast in the south.

The wet spots, which turn up in 200 to 250 different images from the Global Surveyor spacecraft, "could be a few million years old but we cannot rule out that some of them are so recent as to have formed yesterday," Malin said. He and colleague Kenneth Edgett detailed their findings at a news conference at NASA Headquarters after Science magazine rushed their scientific paper into public release.

"We were quite surprised and confused" to find present-day evidence of water, Malin said, "because it doesn't really fit our models of what Mars is like."

The best explanation for the presence of water is that repeated outbursts of water and debris may occur on Mars, similar to flash floods on Earth.

"This story, I don't believe, will be answered until someone goes with a pick and shovel" to actually chip away at the landforms, Malin said.

Edgett, who is poring over the 65,000 images the spacecraft has returned since it arrived at Mars in 1997, could come up with no better explanation.
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Bottom line is Mars could sustain human colonies once we screw up Earth so bad we can't live here anymore.

KOD
 

yyz

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NASA determined that Mars, at one time, had water. They report, that sadly, Mars is now mostly Jack Daniels and heroin.......




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DOGS THAT BARK

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Since it is closest planet to us and they "did" have water but "now" don't it might seem plausible the reason they "don't" have water "now" might be a concen to our future generation to prevent the same occurance here-- ;)
 
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