About a month ago I posted that he could go down 30 units - WRONG! - he is going to lose 60 or more units unless he quits - I am so grateful that I decided to stop playing him - what is most astonishing is not how bad he is but that he has the balls to keep charging people - his site says they have packages available for the fall? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Please, I do not want anybody to amke the mistake of sending this scammer one hard earned penny. And anyone who charges money and is down 30 units is a scammer.
NDN Fan continues to get buried!
- Thread starter mookie77
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Bandit, here is what these guys do - they find a site and they post plays religously - if they lose no big deal but if they win they charge the next year - then the just get a new name and repeat the scam.
ndnfan is not a scammer. He posts his records for all to see, he doesn't lie about his results and he doesn't try to hook fish for bigger and bigger priced plays. That is what scammers do.
The guy is having an awful season and, at least from where a neutral observer would sit, he probably made a mistake by jumping head first into selling a service without being a full time professional handicapper for several years beforehand.
Maybe instead of getting angry and lashing out on ndnfan, the folks who purchased his service should look at themselves and ask why they did so. He had a couple of years of success posting at Mad Jack's, but he never claimed to be a full time handicapper prior to starting his service. Why send hundreds or even tens of dollars to a guy like that for his plays? You are asking for trouble.
And about him still selling packages for the fall, you don't have to worry about people buying those I would think. I mean, with all the touts out there why would anyone pay for a service with a single baseball season of service plays under his belt and an awful record in that single season? That is another reason he is not a scammer. If he wanted to scam people, he would have long since erased his public record and stopped posting his baseball results to try to advertise and hype his coming football season. Good luck all.
The guy is having an awful season and, at least from where a neutral observer would sit, he probably made a mistake by jumping head first into selling a service without being a full time professional handicapper for several years beforehand.
Maybe instead of getting angry and lashing out on ndnfan, the folks who purchased his service should look at themselves and ask why they did so. He had a couple of years of success posting at Mad Jack's, but he never claimed to be a full time handicapper prior to starting his service. Why send hundreds or even tens of dollars to a guy like that for his plays? You are asking for trouble.
And about him still selling packages for the fall, you don't have to worry about people buying those I would think. I mean, with all the touts out there why would anyone pay for a service with a single baseball season of service plays under his belt and an awful record in that single season? That is another reason he is not a scammer. If he wanted to scam people, he would have long since erased his public record and stopped posting his baseball results to try to advertise and hype his coming football season. Good luck all.
will the real kevin duffy please stand up
will the real kevin duffy please stand up
i am a current client with ndfan,yes i am disappointed with being down 30 units and the money spent for his service.at least i did win 15 to 20 units last yr with his regular posts here before he started his service.to his credit he does not chase his losses by throwing 15 to 20 units out like another service does here when they are down.i have paid money to fletcher,kc wolf and raymond.hands down fletcher has been the most successful and the most professional.he continually turns a profit almost each week.he does not chase his losses.his money management is sound.one of the other services is currently down almost 100 units.they may get it back but who can throw down 20 units each day to do this.this also happened last yr in football and baskets.they did get it back but i would never use them again.i have painfully learned my lession.services are for losers and yes i belong in the group.but never again will i pay anyone for picks.
will the real kevin duffy please stand up
i am a current client with ndfan,yes i am disappointed with being down 30 units and the money spent for his service.at least i did win 15 to 20 units last yr with his regular posts here before he started his service.to his credit he does not chase his losses by throwing 15 to 20 units out like another service does here when they are down.i have paid money to fletcher,kc wolf and raymond.hands down fletcher has been the most successful and the most professional.he continually turns a profit almost each week.he does not chase his losses.his money management is sound.one of the other services is currently down almost 100 units.they may get it back but who can throw down 20 units each day to do this.this also happened last yr in football and baskets.they did get it back but i would never use them again.i have painfully learned my lession.services are for losers and yes i belong in the group.but never again will i pay anyone for picks.
bottom line..........no matter what service....if you pay money your responsible.........nobody forces you to pay.....only person you should be mad at is yourself :nono:
still to this day I will never understand why somebody would pay a service for picks...........but there are a lot of services out there so guess I must be missing something :shrug:
and as for NDNfan.........he is rock solid when he posts on madjacks......and it's FREE
(same holds true for the other "service" guys)
I'll say it again.........why pay..........plenty of free stuff out there
poor taste for you to come on here and bash........:nono:
still to this day I will never understand why somebody would pay a service for picks...........but there are a lot of services out there so guess I must be missing something :shrug:
and as for NDNfan.........he is rock solid when he posts on madjacks......and it's FREE
(same holds true for the other "service" guys)
I'll say it again.........why pay..........plenty of free stuff out there
poor taste for you to come on here and bash........:nono:
ndnfan is no scammer he just had a bad season, must handicappers when they first turn "pay" they have bad seasons im sure hw will make it out of there even if he is not he doesnt belong with the scammers and i dont disagree in paying for picks if they were cheaper i mean you can puy that much then gamble if they are gonna turn a profit, they just charge too much in my opinion
kickserv said:
I see this argument all the time and think it is pathetic...
Let's see...I get hit by a drunk driver...nobody forced me to drive, guess I should be mad at myself.
I get robbed at gunpoint walking down the street, nobody forced me to be there, guess I should be mad at myself.
Of course nobody is forced to buy picks, but that fact alone does not absolve some sh*tty capper from any and all liability. They are presenting themselves as a professional and charging for their priceless wisdom. I completely agree with the idea that buying picks is the worst idea you could ever come up with but don't come on here and wave your little finger :nono: and tell mookie his post is poor taste. His anger is caused by the poor performance of a product that he purchased and he is informing the public of his dissatisfaction. Not a d*mn thing wrong with that.
Mookie, if you want to follow someone...follow Champion Plays. the guy seems to be rock solid and he won't cost you a dime. Good luck.
Nothing is wrong with stating the truth and trying to keep others from making the same mistake. I don't know that he was bashing as much as informing people even if he may be taking out his frustrations. onetrickpony hit the nail on the head and anyone who disagrees is wrong in my opinion. Not that I think or know if ndnfan is a scammer ... he may not be at all but I've always disagreed with those who go pay but then again, it's there right and the idiots who pay make it possible. Just for the record, and I won't name names ... I know people who have used a few services from guys who started here over the past few years and NONE of them have had success according to everything I've heard. So don't pay bend over and pay for a service (even if they are not scammers) and you won't get fawked up the :moon: !
I also agree that is many cases, what mookie said ... "here is what these guys do - they find a site and they post plays religously - if they lose no big deal but if they win they charge the next year - then the just get a new name and repeat the scam."
is probably also correct. The lesson is, stick with the free picks, stay disciplined and don't get caught up in all the hype and you will do okay and find much humor here too.
Just follow my Constanza project and you will do just fine
Good Luck!
I also agree that is many cases, what mookie said ... "here is what these guys do - they find a site and they post plays religously - if they lose no big deal but if they win they charge the next year - then the just get a new name and repeat the scam."
is probably also correct. The lesson is, stick with the free picks, stay disciplined and don't get caught up in all the hype and you will do okay and find much humor here too.
Just follow my Constanza project and you will do just fine
Good Luck!
I really hate when people try to draw analogies that make no sense what so ever. For instance:
YOU make the decision to pay a service for picks. they may win, they may lose, but no one forced you to do that. You made the decision to do that, you accept the consequences for what happens to YOUR money.
As for getting hit by a drunk driver, your fault, no one forced you to drive.....GET REAL. That is something YOU have no control over.
And for getting robbed at gunpoint but its your fault cause no one forced you to walk down the street? C'mon man. Again, You have no control over that. Your doing your thing when your life is intruded upon by outside forces.
Both instances are controled by fate, happenstance, whatever you want to call it. Paying for services is something that you should be prepared for a negative outcome. You ask him for his plays and then play them You go to him, he doesn't come to you. You put your faith in that service, he didn't say give me your money and play my plays or else.
I've had two friends killed by drunk drivers, and the fact that you would even make an analogy like that makes me sick to my stomach.
And as far as being absolved from any liability....is a stock broker held accountable for helping you choose bad stocks? he is helping you make a choice based on research and past performance yet has no idea how the stocks value will really play out.
I do agree with you though that mookie has the right to bitch. We all do when "our team" for the night loses or doesnt score enough points. Maybe just better off in the GD forum.
GL all, and don't follow someone blindly.
PS...you want an analogy, here's one:
Following a pay service who advertises high rate of return, playing every pick and losing IS AS TOO following David Karesch (SP) when he says that he is Jesus, raise arms against the ATF and you will go to heaven, and you die.
Granted, those are two very hard and different extremes, but with each example, someone told you something, you chose to follow. Accept the consequences. Don't sit there pissed off in hell bitching at David calling him a lying SOB. You took a chance and lost. If you were in Heaven sitting next to David doing whatever it is they do there, would you have taken this time to write about how bad NDNFAN sucks?
Good day.
YOU make the decision to pay a service for picks. they may win, they may lose, but no one forced you to do that. You made the decision to do that, you accept the consequences for what happens to YOUR money.
As for getting hit by a drunk driver, your fault, no one forced you to drive.....GET REAL. That is something YOU have no control over.
And for getting robbed at gunpoint but its your fault cause no one forced you to walk down the street? C'mon man. Again, You have no control over that. Your doing your thing when your life is intruded upon by outside forces.
Both instances are controled by fate, happenstance, whatever you want to call it. Paying for services is something that you should be prepared for a negative outcome. You ask him for his plays and then play them You go to him, he doesn't come to you. You put your faith in that service, he didn't say give me your money and play my plays or else.
I've had two friends killed by drunk drivers, and the fact that you would even make an analogy like that makes me sick to my stomach.
And as far as being absolved from any liability....is a stock broker held accountable for helping you choose bad stocks? he is helping you make a choice based on research and past performance yet has no idea how the stocks value will really play out.
I do agree with you though that mookie has the right to bitch. We all do when "our team" for the night loses or doesnt score enough points. Maybe just better off in the GD forum.
GL all, and don't follow someone blindly.
PS...you want an analogy, here's one:
Following a pay service who advertises high rate of return, playing every pick and losing IS AS TOO following David Karesch (SP) when he says that he is Jesus, raise arms against the ATF and you will go to heaven, and you die.
Granted, those are two very hard and different extremes, but with each example, someone told you something, you chose to follow. Accept the consequences. Don't sit there pissed off in hell bitching at David calling him a lying SOB. You took a chance and lost. If you were in Heaven sitting next to David doing whatever it is they do there, would you have taken this time to write about how bad NDNFAN sucks?
Good day.
The lesson is don't be a sucker and pay for picks just as you wouldn't follow some nutcase like David Karesch.
I don't really believe ndnfan is a scammer like some of the scum that you see on TV (Proline etc,). He had a good year last year and parlayed that into a service. No big deal but wow what a difference a year makes. Anybody has the right to run a service just as anybody has the right to pay for a service. I like others have been burned by services early in my betting life and it leaves a bad taste in your mouth for all services. The best bet is to follow some of the established posters right here at madjacks. I do when I get a losing streak and it usually helps pull me out of it. Thunder and steel city don't you guys go pay lol.
There is some people here who have services and still post on a regular basis( ie- Fletcher, Raymond) and give out good plays for free with info. The only problem I have with the other people who went service is that how often do you here from them? Do they just post once every couple of weeks to get a few more customers? Ace comes to mind.
Also I don't see anything wrong with a person who payed for the service giving details of how bad/good they are doing. You pay your hard earned cash for plays from someone who you think is either a better capper in that sport or can make you money. The comparison to a stock broker might be close, but when you see your statement and are losing your ass in the market do you still want to strangle the guy- yes? These people are working for you to make you money and if they don't then they should be held accountable.
Gambling is not easy but this IS the life we choose ( I feel like we are in the mafia lol)
good luck aand may everyone hit 60%
just cover
There is some people here who have services and still post on a regular basis( ie- Fletcher, Raymond) and give out good plays for free with info. The only problem I have with the other people who went service is that how often do you here from them? Do they just post once every couple of weeks to get a few more customers? Ace comes to mind.
Also I don't see anything wrong with a person who payed for the service giving details of how bad/good they are doing. You pay your hard earned cash for plays from someone who you think is either a better capper in that sport or can make you money. The comparison to a stock broker might be close, but when you see your statement and are losing your ass in the market do you still want to strangle the guy- yes? These people are working for you to make you money and if they don't then they should be held accountable.
Gambling is not easy but this IS the life we choose ( I feel like we are in the mafia lol)
good luck aand may everyone hit 60%
just cover
Just Cover,
Well said all the way around. I have only one question for you? How should they be held accountable? Everyone probably has their own ideas, but what is right? Give back 50%, 15%, or a simple apology and their word that they will keep trying? We are all accountable for our actions, but yet many don't accept it and move on. I have no problem with services, its a business and if you're good at something, why not go for it. They people you mentioned here are very good at what they do, but that doesn't mean that there arent some bad ones out there. those are the ones that people like Raymond and Fletcher too often get associated with when they have 1 or 2 horrible days out of 134. too bad. I respect your comments very much. Have a great day.
Well said all the way around. I have only one question for you? How should they be held accountable? Everyone probably has their own ideas, but what is right? Give back 50%, 15%, or a simple apology and their word that they will keep trying? We are all accountable for our actions, but yet many don't accept it and move on. I have no problem with services, its a business and if you're good at something, why not go for it. They people you mentioned here are very good at what they do, but that doesn't mean that there arent some bad ones out there. those are the ones that people like Raymond and Fletcher too often get associated with when they have 1 or 2 horrible days out of 134. too bad. I respect your comments very much. Have a great day.
not taking a side but lets drop this, I have been a service before i was even here at madjacks first. 2nd it is a lot harder to invest peoples hard earned money then you can even think so i understand the people who are upset, but i am sure none of the names talked about are out to scam anyone. there are do's and don't to make money but i keep mine to myself.
if you have a service and have a problem should call them on phone not talk about it on a posting form, most services that are on the up and up which are maybe 20% maybe less will work out something, but can understand the ones who are upset.
Even as a pro that means i make my income from my handicapping and about i say a 1/4 or less with service and i am a real nv corp. you can find the paper work in carson city, does not mean you will win all the time yes money management is key as more then winning % there are no locks no games of the year or week or inside info least in my eyes.
Like i said i can understand bad feelings but you should talk one on one and if your looking to make a quick mint you won't see that with a ligit service because it is a grind each week you try to make a profit and then protect it, in the years end you should be happy.
like i said no taking sides here, i feel i give out lot of plays here for people who can't or don't want a service so reather if i am a service or not have always given good plays out here also look at my nfl pre season. like i said read a few things and i was talked about not by name but lumped in like i said i was a service long before madjacks and have always given a few plays a week here to the best that i can remember.
This is not going to go anywhere and is no good for the form, deal with it on a one to one phone call and i do understand they clients side also.
good luck and try phoning your service if you are upset and see what can be worked out a honest one will do what they can within their power to make peace.
good luck and have a safe and happy weekend.
please lock this or move to gen it is of no use in handicapping threads.
if you have a service and have a problem should call them on phone not talk about it on a posting form, most services that are on the up and up which are maybe 20% maybe less will work out something, but can understand the ones who are upset.
Even as a pro that means i make my income from my handicapping and about i say a 1/4 or less with service and i am a real nv corp. you can find the paper work in carson city, does not mean you will win all the time yes money management is key as more then winning % there are no locks no games of the year or week or inside info least in my eyes.
Like i said i can understand bad feelings but you should talk one on one and if your looking to make a quick mint you won't see that with a ligit service because it is a grind each week you try to make a profit and then protect it, in the years end you should be happy.
like i said no taking sides here, i feel i give out lot of plays here for people who can't or don't want a service so reather if i am a service or not have always given good plays out here also look at my nfl pre season. like i said read a few things and i was talked about not by name but lumped in like i said i was a service long before madjacks and have always given a few plays a week here to the best that i can remember.
This is not going to go anywhere and is no good for the form, deal with it on a one to one phone call and i do understand they clients side also.
good luck and try phoning your service if you are upset and see what can be worked out a honest one will do what they can within their power to make peace.
good luck and have a safe and happy weekend.
please lock this or move to gen it is of no use in handicapping threads.
i dont agree fletch.. we all look out for each other here..
if you went to eat at an Outback Steakhouse and you found out they were using... hell i dont know... donkey meat for their steaks.. would you not be posting when you got home warning your fellow madjackers ?? thats a horrid example i know but my point is.. theres nothing wrong with letting your friends know.. " hey, this is a bad idea, dont waste your money.. this isnt working.."
trick pony said it best..
lowell expressed his satisfaction with your service.. he let everyone know that you are solid... he sharing his opinon with everyone.. what the hell is wrong with that?
if you went to eat at an Outback Steakhouse and you found out they were using... hell i dont know... donkey meat for their steaks.. would you not be posting when you got home warning your fellow madjackers ?? thats a horrid example i know but my point is.. theres nothing wrong with letting your friends know.. " hey, this is a bad idea, dont waste your money.. this isnt working.."
trick pony said it best..
lowell expressed his satisfaction with your service.. he let everyone know that you are solid... he sharing his opinon with everyone.. what the hell is wrong with that?
When I mean held accountable is that by the people who pay for the picks they CAN post the record bad or good of the service. And you are right about people screaming when they have off days which always happens, however that is what THEY chose to do and have to deal with headaches that go with it.
jc
jc
nothing is wrong with it my clients have been happy for 5 years over the course of each year, i just don't like to see the others called scammer because i know what a scammer is i have been in the business for a long time, NDFAN wants to win for clients but there are things you learn about being a service that is different then just post a play money managenent and when to call it a week. i just don't think they are out to scam anyone i have plenty of happy clients i was making a point that this has no place in baseball thread it is a gen dis and you still should call who is in charge first and see what they will work out for you and then if they will or can't do something with in reason then you post about it. just did not think it was in the right form and not everyone is out to scam the world i make my clents a better return then you will get on wall street or a ira or roth and that is backed up on my page. have had some who could not follow directions or were unhappy ex bowl games crashed lost most of all ncaa profit nfl did great but i gave new people hoops not that i had to but because i felt bad if they were ncaa only or offered money back,but if you had been with me over a year you got nothing because i made them 10+ fold what they paid for the service so they were still way above the game.
i can only say how i do business but i also know that being a scammer and having a off season is 2 different things, would you call the market all scammers now or banks with the prime rate?
To many people spew off about things they have no clue on you can't lump everyone into gether i know a old man sycamore sports from the mid west been doing it over 20 years in hoops has had 2 losing seasons everyone is differnt more bad then honest and that is what good services have to deal with just the same as bad books, there will always be someone looking for the quick buck and that makes everyone look bad hell i have been stifeed by members on this board on i gave password and he has won 10 out of 11 weeks and now won't write me or pay he had to wait on check said he mailed it 3 times this has been 2.5 months now right quickbet so you have players that try to scam more then books trust me i could give 7 more names that have one for a week good money then did charge backs the names would surprise you but i just write it off as lost income through my accountant. and these are people that post here every day, i have people that work for me and bills to pay so is it ok for me to get stiffed , i don't tell the board there names and screen names but i could and even phone and address but that is poor business they have to live with it i will just get honest clients and then a few scammers right quickbet. that is my point.
good luck and think your boys win it all this year.
i can only say how i do business but i also know that being a scammer and having a off season is 2 different things, would you call the market all scammers now or banks with the prime rate?
To many people spew off about things they have no clue on you can't lump everyone into gether i know a old man sycamore sports from the mid west been doing it over 20 years in hoops has had 2 losing seasons everyone is differnt more bad then honest and that is what good services have to deal with just the same as bad books, there will always be someone looking for the quick buck and that makes everyone look bad hell i have been stifeed by members on this board on i gave password and he has won 10 out of 11 weeks and now won't write me or pay he had to wait on check said he mailed it 3 times this has been 2.5 months now right quickbet so you have players that try to scam more then books trust me i could give 7 more names that have one for a week good money then did charge backs the names would surprise you but i just write it off as lost income through my accountant. and these are people that post here every day, i have people that work for me and bills to pay so is it ok for me to get stiffed , i don't tell the board there names and screen names but i could and even phone and address but that is poor business they have to live with it i will just get honest clients and then a few scammers right quickbet. that is my point.
good luck and think your boys win it all this year.
I think that the simple pressure of having to pick winners for clients is what throws these guys from good to bad. Like anything in life, once you choose to make it your job, it is work!
You can't call in sick, or take time off, or come and go as you please. People are out there waiting for you to perform for them. I remember being asked at this, and other sites, if I wanted a daily posting page. I declined. Now, I still post every friggin' day, but I can do at at my whim! I am under no pressure to do it! I remember when Jack offered these pages to guys, and about 6-8 took the offering. The deal was, you update the page every day. Write an article, post some plays, etc. Most of these guys fell off the map after a few short weeks! Some of those pages haven't been updated for months! It became work, and we all want to avoid that.
This whole thing flows into my feelings on this game being a coin flip. You make a few plays a week and have a couple winning seasons......Guys on the board start saying, "Follow so-and-so if you want winners!".......Your posts get 750+ hits.......you decide that it is time to step out.
Now, the flow becomes the ebb, and you start reeling. Winners are hard to come by, and the record sinks into the sunset. The hole doesn't even need to be that deep. A 50/50 season has clients pissed at you! Two weeks into a season, and 50/50 will have them pissed! So, not only are you struggling a little, but you have the weight of clients on your ass, too! That just might make you reach a little, and start to do things that you would normally not do. Now, instead of trying to inch your way out of the hole with solid plays, you feel you need to get the clients back to even as soon as possible. This is all leading to what we see. Failed touts.
Hey.....if you can stand up to all of this, good for you. Me? I'll keep plugging along as I please, safe in the knowledge that no one wins or loses off of my plays!
You can't call in sick, or take time off, or come and go as you please. People are out there waiting for you to perform for them. I remember being asked at this, and other sites, if I wanted a daily posting page. I declined. Now, I still post every friggin' day, but I can do at at my whim! I am under no pressure to do it! I remember when Jack offered these pages to guys, and about 6-8 took the offering. The deal was, you update the page every day. Write an article, post some plays, etc. Most of these guys fell off the map after a few short weeks! Some of those pages haven't been updated for months! It became work, and we all want to avoid that.
This whole thing flows into my feelings on this game being a coin flip. You make a few plays a week and have a couple winning seasons......Guys on the board start saying, "Follow so-and-so if you want winners!".......Your posts get 750+ hits.......you decide that it is time to step out.
Now, the flow becomes the ebb, and you start reeling. Winners are hard to come by, and the record sinks into the sunset. The hole doesn't even need to be that deep. A 50/50 season has clients pissed at you! Two weeks into a season, and 50/50 will have them pissed! So, not only are you struggling a little, but you have the weight of clients on your ass, too! That just might make you reach a little, and start to do things that you would normally not do. Now, instead of trying to inch your way out of the hole with solid plays, you feel you need to get the clients back to even as soon as possible. This is all leading to what we see. Failed touts.
Hey.....if you can stand up to all of this, good for you. Me? I'll keep plugging along as I please, safe in the knowledge that no one wins or loses off of my plays!
- Status
