Planned parenthood is selling baby parts

saint

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Illegally. Allowing live births and killing after the fact in order to get fully intact fetuses to get more money. (traditional methods of abortion do not allow the fetus to be aborted intact). Describing arms and legs and fully intact fetuses for sale as "simply line items".

Have you seen this much in the media? Me either.

But poor Cecil, poor poor Cecil.

Or....we can get furious at those who went undercover due to their anti-abortion agenda. You know, to deflect the eyes from the fact that planned parenthood is fucking selling baby parts to the highest bidder. Your tax dollars are funding this.

This isn't an abortion debate. This is about people illegally selling off organs and fetuses.

But poor Cecil. Poor poor Cecil.
 
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saint

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I am outraged! The Cecil post had 5 replies of horror and disdain already! The tragedy!!!!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/egGUEvY7CEg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


No media outrage over this. We live in a fucked up society man.
 

saint

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This guy from the Chicago Tribune gets it.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-kass-planned-parenthood-folo-met-0805-20150805-column.html

What's the cost of avoiding the Planned Parenthood videos?

You don't have to watch those videos of Planned Parenthood officials released by an anti-abortion group.

No one will force you. And you'd be right to look with suspicion at anyone who tells you that you must watch them.

So I'm not telling you to watch. But I am asking you to ask yourself two questions:

Is there a cost to avoidance? And what is the cost?

A new video came out the other day, a fifth video, of Planned Parenthood officials talking in chilling euphemisms and grisly business in the lab, secretly recorded by the Center for Medical Progress.

Of course, you can ignore it, and the others too. Perhaps it's safer that way. There's something to be said for avoidance, and I suppose many have avoided the videos, thoughtful and decent people on all sides of the issue.

I hoped to avoid it as well, but when the new video was released, I was drawn to it, though I knew it would be painful. It was.

Like the other videos, the fifth centers on Planned Parenthood's fetal organ harvests, but the new video also deals with the issue of "intact" fetuses, discussed in neutral, bureaucratic language.

"And we are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers, then we can make it part of the budget, that any dissections are this, and splitting the specimens into different shipments is this, I mean that's ? it's all just a matter of line items," says a Planned Parenthood official in the video.

And so the unborn are reduced to line items.

Planned Parenthood quickly responded, saying the videos are nothing more than an anti-choice campaign to smear an organization that provides health care to women.

The Center for Medical Progress alleges the videos are evidence that Planned Parenthood ? which receives more than $500 million each year in federal tax money ? is illegally selling body parts for profit.

The politicians are all over it. Democrats argue the videos attack a woman's sexual freedom and the right to choose an abortion. That'll help raise campaign money.

Republicans argue that the group should lose federal funding for engaging in possibly illegal organ selling. And that will help raise campaign money as well.

A procedural vote to deny funding, one of many to come, was defeated in the Senate. But congressional hearings are scheduled after the recess, and there will be more politics.

Not all of the politicians outraged by Planned Parenthood are Republicans. A few Democrats joined in. One is West Virginia Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin, who said he opposes funding Planned Parenthood.

"I am very troubled by the callous behavior of Planned Parenthood staff in recently released videos, which casually discuss the sale, possibly for profit, of fetal tissue after an abortion. Until these allegations have been answered and resolved, I do not believe that taxpayer money should be used to fund this organization," Manchin said in a statement.

So what's on videos still to come, and the continued squawking of angry people in those little boxes on TV will make it even more difficult to avoid the issue in the fall.

But the issue isn't whether abortion is legal. Abortion has been legal for decades. That's not going to change.

This is something else again: Reducing human life to a commodity, subject to market whims, where the "procedure" (meaning abortion) is altered so that the fetal organs may be kept intact, to be bartered and sold.

You can say that it's not human life. And many do. But in this case, using euphemisms is a shield. I suppose we can convince ourselves that the research "materiel" is not human, until of course, you see a lab tech with tweezers pick up a tiny limb.

And though many avoid the implications of this, it just might be that there is a cost, to all of us, even as we shut our eyes.

Everything has a cost. Avoidance most of all.

One myth about America is that we're a direct people, that we confront what's out there. We tell ourselves that we're bold, that we see things as they are, and that once we understand what it is, we deal with it.

But as a culture, with our fixation on entertainment, with America the great marketplace for recreational narcotics, as we bury ourselves in amusing videos on our phones, I wonder if we've become experts at one thing:

Avoiding pain.

We're adept at avoiding pain. Actually, we're great at it. Billion-dollar entertainment industries feed that need in us.

When the first of the videos became public, many of us hurled anger at safer targets, like the lion-killing dentist. There are plenty of safe targets.

Like mocking stupid remarks made by goofball politicians. I do it. We're good at mocking. Some of us go through life with tongue perpetually in cheek, using irony as an emotional buffer. There are plenty of web hits in that, and much profit in snark. And, like pre-revolutionary France, ridicule has become our true currency.

We also divert ourselves with sport. We need sport. We love sport. We put sport in our pipes and smoke it, and this fall we'll lay back on our couches and watch the World Series and the Tom Brady redemption drama and talk about athletes as heroes.

Still, the horrifying videos make something all too clear. What's going on at Planned Parenthood is barbaric.

And, since Americans fund Planned Parenthood with our tax dollars, avoiding the issue doesn't really work.

Because the use of our money makes us complicit.

jskass@tribpub.com

Twitter @John_Kass
 

saint

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In anticipation of predictable responses:


This is not about the issue of abortion

This is about altering the method of abortion to procure specimens for profit in a way that is illegal.


It's kind of fun to have a conversation with yourself. I suppose it's like those who post with multiple ghosts here.
 

SixFive

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Horrible. FDC, this is the kind of thing that proves a liberal media bias (not calling you out, just something we had discussed and not agreed on in the past). Let's also not forget how much of a gigantic racist Margaret Sanger was as well.
 

ImFeklhr

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To abortion experts out there, is this inaccurate? (found this blurb online).

""Yes, the fetal tissue is harvested after abortion only with the mother's consent. If the mother does not consent, the tissue is destroyed in the same way all medical waste is destroyed. The tissue can come from any sort of abortion, whether that is a fetus that is not viable, one that threatens the life of the mother or simply a child that the mother does not want. I do believe it needs to be a surgical abortion and the mother needs to be along a certain amount of weeks, but please don't quote me on that. I've tried to find a source for that, but it is sadly very hard to find anything in terms of sensible information out there right now with all the conservative lying and fear mongering.

As long as the tissue is well enough intact, it can be donated to companies that do medical research. PP is not allowed to sell fetal tissue, however the companies that receive said tissues can make donations to PP. Usually there is an agreement to donate enough to cover the cost of handling and transportation."


If this is accurate it sounds a lot less "damning".:shrug:
At very least the videos are carefully edited and provide almost no context.
 

fatdaddycool

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Horrible. FDC, this is the kind of thing that proves a liberal media bias (not calling you out, just something we had discussed and not agreed on in the past). Let's also not forget how much of a gigantic racist Margaret Sanger was as well.

How is it a liberal media bias when it's not been reported on conservative media either?

I'm not going to argue as to who's to blame for a practice that has been in place for years.

I am pro choice. I will never try to tell a strange woman what decisions she needs to make in those situations.

The conundrum for you, in it's most basic form, is whether to use the landfill or to recycle. The abortions are going to happen anyway. Stem cell research should be a priority, but that doesn't mean I have to agree or like every facet of it.

I have no real opinion on this story though. Saint only wrote about it because he thinks he's losing future revenue on youth braces
 

fatdaddycool

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thats cold blooded fdc

:facepalm:
No it's nothing of the sort.


Saint devalued the issue when he used it as a tool to diminish people, such as myself, that commented on the killing of Cecil the lion. Make no mistake, saint doesn't give a flip about this practice other than it's appeal to him for dickhead fuel. Ask him in six months how many abortion clinics, but it's not about abortion remember, he picketed. How many times he wrote his congressman.

Cold blooded my dyin' ass. That statement is far closer to the truth with him than you can fathom.


Hope this helps,
FDC
 

BobbyBlueChip

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I suppose you'd rather the fetus go into the garbage then?

It's a difficult decision on an individual and on a societal level and this propaganda doesn't help the discussion and only adds to the sensationalism that you seem to be mocking.
 
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Betone

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I suppose you'd rather the fetus go into the garbage then?

It's a difficult decision on an individual and on a societal level and this propaganda doesn't help the discussion and only adds to the sensationalism that you seem to be mocking.

this:0074
 

shawn555

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I suppose you'd rather the fetus go into the garbage then?

It's a difficult decision on an individual and on a societal level and this propaganda doesn't help the discussion and only adds to the sensationalism that you seem to be mocking.

Very well said.
 

Skulnik

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I suppose you'd rather the fetus go into the garbage then?

It's a difficult decision on an individual and on a societal level and this propaganda doesn't help the discussion and only adds to the sensationalism that you seem to be mocking.

What if the abortion happens after the birth? 5 more videos to come out, who knows what will be on them.

Birth of a legal quandry: Live-birth abortions a perilous grey zone in Canada?s criminal code







Republish Reprint











Tristin Hopper | February 1, 2013 8:28 PM ET
More from Tristin Hopper | @TristinHopper
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Anti-abortion protesters attend the March for Life on Jan. 25, 2013 in Washington, DC.

Brendan Hoffman/Getty ImagesAnti-abortion protesters attend the March for Life on Jan. 25, 2013 in Washington, DC. .




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Live-birth abortions a grey zone in Canada?s criminal code




Jonathan Kay: ?Homicide? or not, abortion is a subject that too few Canadian politicians are willing to tackle


Of course, no matter what your bioethical views, it is disturbing to imagine any abortion proceeding to the stage that a breathing fetus has been permitted to exit the woman?s body, thereupon to languish upon an operating-room table. But in most cases, it seems, this relatively rare spectacle arises as a result of medical interventions that many Canadians would view as morally defensible. Calling it homicide is therefore a stretch.

But all those caveats having been said, should we blame pro-life advocates for taking any avenue they can to advance their cause ? even a long shot such as this one?

The fact is that Canada is the only nation in the Western world without any abortion law. It is perfectly legal in Canada to have or perform an abortion ? for any reason, or no reason at all ? at 20, 25, 30 or 35 weeks gestation. This is a disturbing state of affairs. Yet for some reason, most Canadian politicians and public figures have been intimidated into silence, lest we reawaken a ?divisive? debate. Even our own nominally ?conservative? Prime Minister apparently wants no part of the issue. And so it is understandable that Messrs. Vellacott, Benoit and Lizon are desperate to find other avenues of political agitation.

Continue reading ?
.
On Thursday, three federal Conservative backbenchers said they had asked the RCMP to initiate one of the largest homicide investigations in its history.

Involving as many as 600 victims ? more than even the 1985 Air India bombing ? the investigation proposed by the MPs would implicate virtually every major hospital in Canada, as well as hundreds of nurses, doctors and medical staff.

To justify such a gargantuan effort, they said, the police need look no further than the government?s own ledgers: an obscure Statistics Canada number dug up last October by an anti-abortion activist showing that, each year, about 50 fetuses are ?born alive? during late-term abortions.

?These incidents appear to be homicides,? wrote MPs Maurice Vellacott, Leon Benoit and Wladyslaw Lizon, in their Jan. 23 letter to the RCMP commissioner.

The MPs are right about the fact that between 2000 and 2009, 491 aborted fetuses indeed exhibited ?evidence of life? following their removal from the womb ? be it a momentary heartbeat, a sudden gasp or, in rare cases, crying.

But, while the statistic may speak to one of the most uncomfortable grey areas of Canadian law, doctors say that it is too much to assume that this represents the killing of otherwise healthy babies that the MPs allege.

?It?s not 491 babies left screaming in bedpans, trust me,? said a veteran obstetrician who preferred to remain anonymous.

The criminal code states that it is a homicide when someone causes a child to die after birth by causing an injury during or before the birth. The MPs would seem to be suggesting that since these were ?live? births, it was something in the abortion procedure, or lack of care afterward, that caused life to end. ?These are vulnerable, innocent children that homicide has been perpetrated on,? Mr. Vellacott said on Thursday. ?The individuals who have perpetrated the breach of the criminal code should be charged and brought to justice.?


First unearthed by Ottawa blogger Patricia Maloney last October, the 491 figure is contained in federal cause-of-death statistics, which attributed the number to any aborted fetus that is ?born alive and subsequently dies.?
 

Duff Miver

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Illegally.

Illegally? Where do you get that?

There's already a huge, and quite legal, industry dismembering corpses for recyclable body parts for medical and research purposes. Aborted fetuses are just that - corpses. And the mothers have given permission.

NO federal money is used by Planned Parenthood for abortions (See the Hyde Amendment), and PP is allowed to sell parts to recoup costs.

So....what makes you think they're doing anything illegal?

Please cite the relevant law. We're waiting.

Duh? is not an answer.
 

saint

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I suppose you'd rather the fetus go into the garbage then?

It's a difficult decision on an individual and on a societal level and this propaganda doesn't help the discussion and only adds to the sensationalism that you seem to be mocking.


Bobby you are responding to a different debate. I agree with you that fetal tissues should go towards research, etc, instead of just simply discarding. There is a significant difference between that, and harvesting intact organs by altering the way the abortion is done and doing it in an illegal matter.

The planned parenthood agencies are able to sell the tissue, etc to "recoup costs of procurement". That is federal law. They are not allow to sell them for profit. These videos are a smoking gun that they were altering abortion methods to sell organs and fetuses fully intact for profit. This particular planned parenthood had the most revenue from these procedures in the country.

It's certainly easy to muddy the waters and talk about women's rights, abortion, etc. But this isn't about that. It's about the illegal fashion they are doing them in order to make higher profit margins, both of which are explicitly illegal.
 

saint

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NO federal money is used by Planned Parenthood for abortions (See the Hyde Amendment), and PP is allowed to sell parts to recoup costs.

So....what makes you think they're doing anything illegal?

Please cite the relevant law. We're waiting.
.


You cited it yourself. They are allowed to sell to recoup costs. They are not allowed to perform illegal abortions (killing the baby post delivery), in order to obtain fully intact organs or fetuses, in order to obtain more money (profit).

Where's the proof of that?? Those things are admitted to and detailed by the head of this planned parenthood in these videos.
 

hedgehog

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Illegally. Allowing live births and killing after the fact in order to get fully intact fetuses to get more money. (traditional methods of abortion do not allow the fetus to be aborted intact). Describing arms and legs and fully intact fetuses for sale as "simply line items".

Have you seen this much in the media? Me either.

But poor Cecil, poor poor Cecil.

Or....we can get furious at those who went undercover due to their anti-abortion agenda. You know, to deflect the eyes from the fact that planned parenthood is fucking selling baby parts to the highest bidder. Your tax dollars are funding this.

This isn't an abortion debate. This is about people illegally selling off organs and fetuses.

But poor Cecil. Poor poor Cecil.

Democrats are not above anything to make a buck, doesn't surprise me at all. sick sick individuals and I am pro choice as long as its not late term and the mother pays for it
 

saint

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No it's nothing of the sort.


Saint devalued the issue when he used it as a tool to diminish people, such as myself, that commented on the killing of Cecil the lion. Make no mistake, saint doesn't give a flip about this practice other than it's appeal to him for dickhead fuel. Ask him in six months how many abortion clinics, but it's not about abortion remember, he picketed. How many times he wrote his congressman.

Cold blooded my dyin' ass. That statement is far closer to the truth with him than you can fathom.


Hope this helps,
FDC


At least you are consistent FDC. When you have no valid response to the discussion at hand you go to the shock value and inflammatory.
 
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