poker hand question

[marine]

Ok, I post this because I know I think I made a huge mistake in the hand.

Situation:
10 seated 1/2 NL game.
200 buy in, its 4 hours into the game and I have $1400. Other big stack across the table has 950. I've steered clear of any pots he's been in and he has pretty much done the same to me. He's a tight player - has been known to mix it up on occasion, but rarely. is very proud of his chip stack and does not want to see it go down much.

We will call him "EHonda"

Ehonda is BB.
UTG raises to $10
fold
fold
ME: look down to QQ. sweet. I make it 40 more.
folds around to BB and he makes it $150.
UTG folds out with his puny stack and grumbles.
Me: I can put Ehonda on a few hands, AA, KK, AK suited or any face pair. no way he makes that move against me without backup.
I decide to make the call and see if I can hit the flop.
Pot: 213 in the pot and it costs me $110 more to play. I've got position on him and a good read on him and a bigger stack.
right call?
Flop comes:

Q -4 -3 (2 spades)

he bets out $150.
I put him on AA/KK or AK spades instantly. I mull it over and act a lil bit. verbally raise and match his $150 and then wait 2 minutes and give it all a shove in.

the rest of the table goes friggin bonkers and you could hear a pin drop in the place.
Result: EHonda took 10 minutes to decide to fold.

question: Should I have just smooth called the bet and waited to pop him on the turn? He had me pegged for a face pair as well based on the previous 4 hours of play together.
my thoughts:
I "think" I could have gotten him to call another $150 raise and then I can push all in on the turn and see if he calls.
There was also 600 + dollars in the pot at the time and I wanted to avoid any risk and take it down then and there and not take the chance to lose to an Ace turn or river. or even if he is holding the A spades and 4 flushing me.


dealer ran the turn and river thru.
red 3 and red 7. I probably could have soaked him on the turn for another 300$ and possibly put him all in on the river. but I will never know.

thoughts on well played hand or did I leave money on the table?
Or was I way off for even calling the preflop raise?

 

[Spero Melior]

marine,

I think the key ingredient is that you wanted to take it down right there on the flop. If that is your choice you obviously did the right thing. In my experience I would have prolly taken some time and just smooth called it because you have the luxury of position and if or when the turn is a blank he will prolly fire another shot if he does indeed have AA/KK and you have got him hook line and sinker.

NH by the way. I've been playing a lot recently at my casino I'm tight aggressive and I had the same situation at a table with two deep stacks, one being me and another guy. It was like the unwritten rule no messing with each other. But you have to play your hands. hope this helped.

 

[The Big Tease]

I certainly dont think with a good conscience that you can let him get a free turn card if you feel a possibility of AKs exists (which is does) Especially with the big stack. If you lose all your money because a 3rd spade comes and you cant give up your set, you will likely be on suicide watch.

I dont know if I make the preflop call or not.....if the player is a rock like you say.......I may or may not. It all depends on if you can give it up when the board comes low cards. You should just take the money, not think twice, and consider yourself lucky

 

[marine]

well, to be honest, my dillemna was caused by him only betting 150 on the flop. I couldnt tell if he had K's or A's. He makes a move for a higher amount and I can put him on A's automatic.
While I did have position and control of the hand, if a 3rd spade, or a K or A come on the turn and he bets out after it,

I didnt want to be the one having to make the tough decision of guessing if he had K's or A's and hit his set.
A few times earlier that night people got burned pretty bad with FPS (fancy play syndrome)

 

[marine]

oh, and one more thing to add, even after he made the correct move and folded and saved his fortune - it put him on tilt and he p*ssed away almost the rest of his stack over the next 8 hours.
I didn't get all of it.. surprisingly, 1 of the weaker players took advantage of the situation and made an all in play against him as well and put him back in the same situation to call with his stack or fold and stay in the game.
smart move on the weaker players part to see that and take advantage of Ehonda's mental state!

flop 2-8-6
weaker player - AK
Ehonda- JJ - and folded.

 

[bullet66]

u made the right choice, don't give him that much of a chance to catch something else if he is that tight.

 

[pd1]

Here is a hand I just got smoked on. If I would have played it the way they did I would deserve to lose. I am audrain:

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------]



** Game ID 827053222 starting - 2006-06-12 19:32:17

** $12,000 GUARANTEE:Table 17 [Multi Table Hold 'em] (300.00|600.00 No Limit - MTT) Real Money



- XO sitting in seat 1 with $16557.50

- KARSTENSHEA sitting in seat 2 with $8550.00

- pockey sitting in seat 3 with $8785.00

- pepsikid sitting in seat 4 with $7068.00

- fordman2 sitting in seat 5 with $4410.00

- macamo sitting in seat 6 with $22140.00

- audrain sitting in seat 7 with $13170.00

- JCrist317 sitting in seat 9 with $13685.00 [Dealer]

- NEROSHERO sitting in seat 10 with $7360.00



NEROSHERO posted the small blind - $150.00

XO posted the big blind - $300.00



** Dealing card to audrain: Queen of Clubs, King of Hearts

KARSTENSHEA folded

pockey folded

pepsikid folded

fordman2 called - $300.00

macamo raised - $600.00

audrain called - $600.00

JCrist317 folded

NEROSHERO folded

XO called - $600.00

fordman2 called - $600.00



** Dealing the flop: Jack of Hearts, Ace of Clubs, 2 of Hearts

XO checked

fordman2 checked

macamo checked

audrain checked



** Dealing the turn: 10 of Spades

XO checked

fordman2 bet - $300.00

macamo raised - $900.00

audrain raised - $6300.00

XO folded

fordman2 went all-in - $3510.00

macamo raised - $11700.00

audrain went all-in - $6270.00

macamo called - $12570.00

fordman2 shows: 10 of Clubs, 10 of Hearts

macamo shows: Ace of Spades, Ace of Diamonds



** Dealing the river: Jack of Spades

macamo wins $13980.00 from the main pot

macamo wins $31500.00 from side pot 1



End of game 827053222

 

[tpaine07]

I would say you made a nice play, you made $300 off him, which was approx 1/3 of his stack. You cant let him somehow catch his K or A or possibly a spade. I think taking down the pot right there was a good play.

 

[BleedDodgerBlue]

preflop your call of the raise is fine.

it seems like you are playing over your head comfort wise. don't take this the wrong way, but you are still playing relatively small stakes and misplayed your hand because you were scared and that is bad poker. you should want to stack him. and unless he had complete air you should of.

don't sit at the table with money you aren't comfortable losing. or in this case when you are up you should have left. the object always is to maximize winners and minimize losers.

you have the perfect scenario. on this flop. re-raising all in or more preflop is stupid and you played that fine. on the flop, just call. if he has nothing he will lead bluff on the turn again and you get more money. if he has AA or KK, a good player isn't calling here anyway for a shove. if he has a spade draw life goes on. he still has to hit and you can still fill. you are still a big favorite.

what bothers me is that you said you wanted to take the pot down there. why? you have him strung along already and can maximize more. of course he can hit something. players generally don't call when they don't. but you have almost as good a situation here to extract more as there is.

not a dis, i just think you left a lot of money on the table.

gl

 

[marine]

Thanks BDB,
I appreciate your honesty. No, it wasn't "scared money" I know what you mean by that. I think the only thing that scared me was catching a knife to the kidney if I tried to walk out the door with it all.

The more I replay the hand in my head and retrace his play thru the night I think the following would have happened.

I smooth call the flop.
turn rag comes. I'm pretty sure he checks it.
If I bet it large, which I would have to do given both the size of the pot already and the current stack situation.
I think he folds in that spot there as well. I figure I would have to bet about 250/275 to make it mean something. I don't think he can just call that bet. He would be forced to raise all in or fold.
That puts me to the choice. The spot I did not want to be in.

Now if I were to check behind him on the turn and give him the river for free, I am hanging myself if the spade comes - I don't think I could bet it and would have to assume he was on the AK spade draw given his check on the turn. If a K comes - he probly checks to me putting me on ppocket K's given my preflop call of his and smooth call on the flop. With a K and Q on the board I think he folds to any bet I make. If an A comes I am out everything.

I'm still struggling with this one, I am sure I could have gotten a few more dollars out of him now knowing the cards that would have come.

Getting back to the scared money comment... first time at that game, all new players to me, he was the only guy at the table who had a game I would respect. You don't think I ran up that big of a stack in 4 hours by playing like a p*ssy do you?

I guess deep down inside in the back of my head I was happy with the amount I had him for already knowing that I could still pick on the rest of the table and draw money from the other players with easier decisions and greater probability for the win.

perhaps next time I will ask to play with pink chips cuz I was a p*ssy.

 

[SpursDynasty]

Its okay to play scared and conservative when you are trying to build your roll for higher limits, however. If that is the case, cash in your big stack, go get somethign eat then rebuy for the min-max at the same table.

But if Big stack is your expertise, don't do that strategy, because that is silly. But if it isn't your expertise, why play a game uncomfortible... doesn't make sense. So I guess it depends what kind of player you are.

just my .02

 

[blgstocks]

Very interesting hand, Obviously on one hand you took down the pot with alot of money in it, didnt give him a chance to catch a 8%er on the turn or river with A or K. But BDB does have a good point that there was alot of money on the table left to take,
I think you did the correct play though considering everything because a guy that tight is going to toss away AK even with a flush draw when a Q is on the board and he pegs you on a pocket paint hand with a smaller raise by you. And only way he calls a bet on the turn is if a A,K, hits (assuming you just called on flop), like you said this put you to geussing whether it trips him up or puts him in the ultimate sucker position. Thats such a tough call cause its 1/3 odds of A or K ruining you. Judging by what you said earlier about him.
Yes BDB is right that the odds are definitely there that u should have risked the 8% to get more money, but 1. you already got a significant stack of his, 2. There is a decent chance of him calling with an AA or KK, and 3. you were in control of the hand
so that being said knowing those 3 things I think you did the right play for the situation.

 

[Buckeye85]

Ok, preflop I would've made the exact same read as you. You know, AA KK or AK. He obviously reraised to try and just get it down to 2 people. Now when the flop came he only bet $150. This immediately would leave me to believe he has AK JJ or 1010. He didn't hit the flop, and his bet really isn't that big at all. He's scared you either have the a Q or an overpair to that. If he had AA or KK he would've either bet out a little more like $250 or so or try and do a check-raise on you. On your play, I definantly wouldn't have raised all in. I would've raised to about $400 and hope for a call, if he did have AA or KK he would call that. That's my take on it.

 

[SixFive]

I would have called his bet instead of going all in, but then, I'm not that great of an internet poker player. If you got 300 bucks from him, and the max buy-in is 200 bucks, I think it was a good hand.