Politics over jobs

[ssd]

Obama nixes the Transcanada pipeline and blames it on the timeframe that the Republicans placed on the deal.

From The Hill: "Obama said he was not acting on the merits of TransCanada Corp.?s plan, but instead was forced to make the decision based on the ?arbitrary? deadline mandated by GOP provisions in December?s payroll tax cut extension deal. "As the State Department made clear last month, the rushed and arbitrary deadline insisted on by Congressional Republicans prevented a full assessment of the pipeline?s impact, especially the health and safety of the American people, as well as our environment," Obama said in a prepared statement.

You can't make this stuff up. Tens of thousands of jobs as well as increased energy independence lost....and China gets the oil.

As far as the payroll tax extension? Extending it for 2 months is ridiculous. It is an accounting nightmare - they could have at least extended it past the first quarter.

Anyway - US politics is a joke. Politics and power is more important than the economy and jobs and people.

I really do not care if they are an R or a D - they are politicians and all suck.

The only answer, in my opinion, is a legitimate third party.

 

[Duff Miver]

Anyway - US politics is a joke. Politics and power is more important than the economy and jobs and people.

I really do not care if they are an R or a D - they are politicians and all suck.

The only answer, in my opinion, is a legitimate third party.

I agree. Both parties suck, but Republicans suck more often.

A third party? Why would that help? They'd still sell out to the highest bidder. It presently takes millions of dollars to campaign.

What we need is an absolute prohibition on bribery, whether it's called campaign contributions, PAC ads, speaking fees, whatever.

Campaign costs should be grants of public money, limited in size, no other money permitted, and politicians should be banned from using the revolving door to collect payola as lobbyists.

You need to rethink that "tens of thousands" of jobs claim. It's actually about 5000 temp jobs.

Energy independence? How so? We now can have all the oil we want by paying the world price. Piping in Canadian oil doesn't change that. The operative word is "fungible".

You can be certain that crude which goes through our Gulf Coast refineries, regardless of it's sources, will be sold to the highest bidder.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Good points Muff. It's also important to understand that the US is a net exporter of oil http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203441704577068670488306242.html and the oil was never intended for US consumption.


quote:
"Keystone XL is an export pipeline. According to presentations to investors, Gulf Coast refiners plan to refine the cheap Canadian crude supplied by the pipeline into diesel and other products for export to Europe and Latin America. Proceeds from these exports are earned tax-free. Much of the fuel refined from the pipeline?s heavy crude oil will never reach U.S. drivers? tanks."

 

[Skulnik]

Good points Muff. It's also important to understand that the US is a net exporter of oil http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203441704577068670488306242.html and the oil was never intended for US consumption.


quote:
"Keystone XL is an export pipeline. According to presentations to investors, Gulf Coast refiners plan to refine the cheap Canadian crude supplied by the pipeline into diesel and other products for export to Europe and Latin America. Proceeds from these exports are earned tax-free. Much of the fuel refined from the pipeline?s heavy crude oil will never reach U.S. drivers? tanks."

Because we don't need JOBS, right?

 

[Jabberwocky]

5,000 temp jobs are not relevant to the employment problem in the US, but its a great talking point for international corps who could give a shit less about the welfare and interests of America to co-opt simpletons like you skulfvck.

 

[Duff Miver]

A majority of Nebraskans are opposed to the pipeline, as is the Governor.

Isn't the Republicans who are soooooo worried about the G'mint trampling state's rights?

 

[Skulnik]

A majority of Nebraskans are opposed to the pipeline, as is the Governor.

Isn't the Republicans who are soooooo worried about the G'mint trampling state's rights?

 

[The Sponge]

And look who is knee deep in this pipeline. Obama might have gotten me off the coach (to vote)with this move cause i can't stand these two cocksuckers or should i call them Mags and Skullsdicks masters.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/oct/05/koch-keystone-xl-pipeline

 

[THE KOD]

I am not up on this pipeline .

I know it is the project that neocons tried to attach to the fawking tax bill and unemployment in Dec


If I am not mistaken there is serious concerns over the environment with this pipeline.


Just think about how many acres of land, trees, mountains, etc would be gone when this thing were built fully.

I will have to read more about this.

 

[Skulnik]

I am not up on this pipeline .

I know it is the project that neocons tried to attach to the fawking tax bill and unemployment in Dec


If I am not mistaken there is serious concerns over the environment with this pipeline.


Just think about how many acres of land, trees, mountains, etc would be gone when this thing were built fully.

I will have to read more about this.

 

[ssd]

i called Dennis Kucinich's office on this yesterday.

Got a very detailed and informative response.

Will try and post the info on it later but after listening to their take, delaying this may not have been a bad idea after all.

 

[THE KOD]

i called Dennis Kucinich's office on this yesterday.

Got a very detailed and informative response.

Will try and post the info on it later but after listening to their take, delaying this may not have been a bad idea after all.

...............................................................

what did they say >?

in a nutshell if you have to.?

:0corn

 

[Duff Miver]

...............................................................

what did they say >?

in a nutshell if you have to.?

:0corn

I'll take a guess.

1. The Canadians want to run a pipeline so they can ship their crude across the USA so that they can have it refined and sold to the Chinese.

2. When, not if, then pipeline leaks it will be our problem.

3. The refiners like Exxon will make a lot of money which they will deposit in the Caymans and pay not one penny of tax.

4. The gulf coast refineries will be so busy refining Canadian crude for China that there will be gasoline shortages in the USA.

5. A few non-union Americans will get temp jobs, then get laid off and draw unemployment compensation.

5. The Canadians, Exxon and the Chinese will laugh their asses off at Americans are so stupid to shoot themselves in the foot.

6. Republicans will say it's all Obama's fault.

 

[ssd]

not quite, Muff.

The XL pipeline is the extension of an existing pipeline that currently ends in the Midwest.
If the extension is continued to the Gulf, the refineries in the Midwest will be shut down and the cost of gas in the Midwest area will spike about 20 cents. Jobs will be lost permanently in the Midwest from this shutdown.
20,0000 man hours of jobs are thought to be created by this pipeline. Perhaps only 500 - 1000 permanent jobs.
The oil headed to the Gulf will primarily be for export - nothing to say however that the US could not buy it instead.

 

[THE KOD]

I'll take a guess.

1. The Canadians want to run a pipeline so they can ship their crude across the USA so that they can have it refined and sold to the Chinese.

2. When, not if, then pipeline leaks it will be our problem.

3. The refiners like Exxon will make a lot of money which they will deposit in the Caymans and pay not one penny of tax.

4. The gulf coast refineries will be so busy refining Canadian crude for China that there will be gasoline shortages in the USA.

5. A few non-union Americans will get temp jobs, then get laid off and draw unemployment compensation.

5. The Canadians, Exxon and the Chinese will laugh their asses off at Americans are so stupid to shoot themselves in the foot.

6. Republicans will say it's all Obama's fault.

.........................................................................

Duff

thats sounds about right.

why does Skuls chart show that the red all over America >

why not just one fawking pipeline like in Alaska .

From Canada to Texas ?

If they really are going to sell it to china I say triple fawk on that one.

no wonder the GOP is trying to stuff it down our throats.


PS I heard that Mittster has 100 mill stashed in the Caymans . He gets the interest from it but dont have to pay taxs unless he takes it out or returns it to the US.

Dont that seem like he is taking money from America by doing that ?

They should have to keep their fawking money here in America.

 

[ssd]

Mitt's offshore tax havens are totally legal.

Many rich people, R and D, have done the very same thing and they are not getting raked over the coals for it.

I do not like Mitt Romney but the flak he is taking for an entirely legal matter is wrong.

 

[Duff Miver]

Mitt's offshore tax havens are totally legal.

Many rich people, R and D, have done the very same thing and they are not getting raked over the coals for it.

I do not like Mitt Romney but the flak he is taking for an entirely legal matter is wrong.

You are correct. Romney is doing nothing illegal. There's no reason he should be criticized for taking advantage of tax laws which are available to everyone.

He may be nearly as slimy as Gingrich and Santorum, but he's doing nothing wrong re taxes.

None of that, of course, is within the reasoning powers of the great unwashed population of morons and bigots who vote in the SC Republican primary.

I'll vote in that primary today too, for the Herminator/Colbert ticket.

 

[THE KOD]

Mitt's offshore tax havens are totally legal.

Many rich people, R and D, have done the very same thing and they are not getting raked over the coals for it.

I do not like Mitt Romney but the flak he is taking for an entirely legal matter is wrong.

...................................................................


then the laws should be changed

Keep the money in America

The only ones that can afford that loophole are the 100 millionaire club

They would cry like babys not to have the legal ability to keep it in Cayman.

No Switzerland hideouts no more , no Cayman Islands anymore ?

oh what to do , what to do

 

[THE KOD]

If you missed the press conference after the State Department announcement that the Keystone XL pipeline had been canceled, you missed a heck of a show.

House Speaker John Boehner was mad. And the Republican lawmakers behind him were furious. Over and over, Boehner and the gang asked angrily "What happened?" knowing full well that the answer was, well ... them.

Despite their indignation, everyone on that stage knew their actions forced the cancellation of the pipeline.

For those of us who follow Congress, their feigned indignation was more akin to that of a spoiled child throwing a fit when things don't go his way, and yet another example of why people hate Congress.


Maria CardonaThe Keystone XL pipeline was proposed to bring bitumen, a low grade Canadian pseudo oil that is strip mined out of the sandy soil in Canada's Alberta province (it is also referred to as "tar sands" oil and "oil sands") all the way down to Houston. That 1,700-mile route crosses the Canadian-U.S. border, which means the president has to approve the project. Because of the dirty nature of the oil, it has been a long process to evaluate the merits and safety of the project.

Nebraskans were concerned about the route through a sensitive portion of the Ogallala Aquifer, which is central to the region's agriculture. Environmentalists hate bitumen because it has more greenhouse gas pollution associated with it than normal oil and there have been troubling questions raised about safe transportation of the new, highly corrosive forms of the oil that would run through the pipeline.

The oil industry, on the other hand, desperately wants the pipeline because Canada's oil is largely stuck in the Midwest, where it has to be sold at a discount. The pipeline gives them new access to foreign markets and the ability to sell their oil for more money: win-win for them!

When prospects for the project looked bad, the Republicans got involved. They stepped in on behalf of their big campaign donors in the oil industry and tried to score on an issue they believe they could use against the president.

What followed was a campaign of misinformation to convince the public that the pipeline was a massive public service from Big Oil that would create loads of jobs while also weaning us from Middle Eastern oil, filling our tanks with fuel from our friendly neighbors. Both couldn't be further from the truth.

Still, truth is a scarce commodity these days, and even on Wednesday, Boehner kept claiming the project would have brought 20,000 jobs, with others saying it would be hundreds of thousands -- all even as the pipeline builders themselves admitted that the permanent jobs would number only in the hundreds (the State Department puts that number at 20 -- ouch). With unemployment at 8.5%, this is about the most cynical way I can imagine to sell a project to America, especially when you know the numbers are wrong.

Also unmentioned? The fact that much of the oil coming out of Keystone XL will not end up in American gas tanks, meaning that it won't offset our ongoing and unfortunate reliance on the Middle East for oil.

The Obama administration understands that. So when the president announced that a decision on the project would be delayed until 2013, the GOP went into overdrive, passing a law that forced the president to make a decision on the project within 60 days, despite the fact that a map of the pipeline route doesn't even exist, making a reasonable decision impossible.

They seemed convinced they had Obama cornered. They were wrong. The Obama administration would not be bullied. So Wednesday, the president laid the blame for canceling the pipeline exactly where it should be - with Congress. Both he and the State Department made clear that this was what would happen if an arbitrary deadline were attached to the project. And he followed through with the eminently reasonable decision to deny approval of the project.

Reasonable decisions in Washington? Now that, not theatrics, is what we need more of.

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:142smilie opcorn2 :SIB :scared :0008

 

[THE KOD]

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despite the fact that a map of the pipeline route doesn't even exist, making a reasonable decision impossible.


why are you posting that ?

its misleading and stupid

you obviously dont understand the issues with this ?

and I am just starting to investigate this pipeline