preview of 2008?

DOGS THAT BARK

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Interesting presidention election in the making currently in France--which could be preview of 08 here.

Leading contenders--Sarkozy and Royal


Sarkozy, a 52-year-old former interior minister who heads the ruling Union for a Popular Movement and is conservative.

Royal, a former environment minister who wants to be France's first woman president and is socialist.

In Sarkozy and Royal, voters face a clear choice between a right-wing programme based on free-market ideas and a left-winger promising to safeguard the country's "social model".

Lots of parrallels here to anticipated contenders in our election in 08.
 

bryanz

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Interesting presidention election in the making currently in France--which could be preview of 08 here.

Leading contenders--Sarkozy and Royal


Sarkozy, a 52-year-old former interior minister who heads the ruling Union for a Popular Movement and is conservative.

Royal, a former environment minister who wants to be France's first woman president and is socialist.

In Sarkozy and Royal, voters face a clear choice between a right-wing programme based on free-market ideas and a left-winger promising to safeguard the country's "social model".

Lots of parrallels here to anticipated contenders in our election in 08.

Sarkozy is a right wing kind of guy when it comes to the economy, thinks the socialist in his country and the socialist in our democratic party what to share wealth the does not exist. He is defiantly not a right winger when it comes to our gun laws. Doesn't understand them and thinks the federal government should ban most guns in America.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Interesting Branz--thank you.

I can't see Sarkozy losing this --I may be wrong-but expect France to follow Canada-Spain-Germany and others--appears the effects of socialism have come home to roost--

"Whoever wins the presidency will have to deal with a huge public debt, stubbornly high unemployment and seething discontent in the high-immigration suburbs which in 2005 broke out into widespread rioting."

does this sound familiar---

Royal has vowed to raise the monthly minimum wage and pensions and to create 500,000 jobs for young people, but says she will not raise overall taxes. Rivals say she is incompetent.

Sarkozy, the son of a Hungarian immigrant, has taken a tough line on crime and is regarded as the most business-friendly candidate by financial markets. He is widely considered closer to the United States than the other candidates, but is portrayed as authoritarian by his rivals.
 
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The Sponge

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Sarkozy is a right wing kind of guy when it comes to the economy, thinks the socialist in his country and the socialist in our democratic party what to share wealth the does not exist. He is defiantly not a right winger when it comes to our gun laws. Doesn't understand them and thinks the federal government should ban most guns in America.

help me out here. You say this guy is a rightwing guy when it comes to the economy. Does this mean massive deficits and debts while giving tax breaks to the wealthy? this is what i see from the right as everyone else should. does this mean saying outsourcing is good for the country? I havent seen one right winger in my lifetime run the country like a business. It is always the same they leave massive deficits and debt. If they ran a single company like this it would go belly up in a few years. When a rightwinger wins they ought to change the name of the country from America to "Bidhigh and Borrow"
 

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Your tough Sponge. But of late you are correct. Large tax breaks for few and big deficits. And the right wingers who love this war don't even want to have a tax hike to pay for it. They rather we keep steeling from S/S and others funds we need for use here at home. I just don't get that thinking.
 

StevieD

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Your tough Sponge. But of late you are correct. Large tax breaks for few and big deficits. And the right wingers who love this war don't even want to have a tax hike to pay for it. They rather we keep steeling from S/S and others funds we need for use here at home. I just don't get that thinking.
The thinking is that it does not hurt them plus they get a huge gain on the defense stocks. Of course this policy is suffocating our country, exactly as the terrorists want it to, but if there is a buck to made the greedy will find a way. Even if it means selling our country down the river. Just a thought but how exactly do the terrorists think they will defeat us? The question is for those in favor of this hideois Occupation of Iraq.
 

The Sponge

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The thinking is that it does not hurt them plus they get a huge gain on the defense stocks. Of course this policy is suffocating our country, exactly as the terrorists want it to, but if there is a buck to made the greedy will find a way. Even if it means selling our country down the river. Just a thought but how exactly do the terrorists think they will defeat us? The question is for those in favor of this hideois Occupation of Iraq.

Stevie have you heard that the big neocon plan of getting the Iraq's to stand up and we will stand down has now changed and they are not training Iraq's anymore? Isn't this beautiful? I need to get more about this story but that is what i hear. You really think these theiving pricks want out of there? I wonder what weasal and DTB think of this new plan? This is what they have been saying for months now and all the sudden we are not training Iraq's. I hope im wrong but i don't think i am.
 

The Sponge

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Republicans are jumping all over Harry Reid for his statement that Iraq is "lost", because the "Dems Don't Support the Troops" distraction tactic works so much better than discussing the actual substance of his remarks.

But when, as McClatchy Newspapers reports today, we find that the U.S. has abandoned the policy of "when they stand up, we'll stand down", Newsweek reports there seem to be no actual military plans drawn up for withdrawal at any time, and the new plan to stop the sectarian violence is a giant, 3-mile wall through Baghdad... Americans can be excused for wondering: how exactly Iraq can ever be "won"?

Meanwhile, Defense Secretary Robert Gates made another trip to the region, and warned Iraqi leaders that American patience is wearing thin. Indeed it is.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Tomorrows D-day with the most liberal country in Europe voting for a new pres
--will this ultra liberal state join canada-germany-australia ect in voting in the U.S. friendly candidate?
--if so will liberals continue their chatter that this conservative admin is making the rest of the world hate us when they are following us down conservative path :)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


France braces for right-left presidential showdown by Hugh Schofield
1 hour, 12 minutes ago

PARIS (AFP) - France is collectively holding its breath, with just hours to go till the final decision in its most hard-fought presidential election in years.

The two candidates -- right-winger Nicolas Sarkozy and Socialist Segolene Royal -- closed their campaigns Friday at midnight in accordance with election rules, and began steeling themselves for Sunday's vote.

Some 44 million people can take part in the election, which offers a clear choice between two starkly different programmes of right and left.

Sarkozy, the 52-year-old head of the ruling Union for a Popular Movement (UMP), is proposing a radical economic agenda based on tax-cuts, limits to trade union powers and incentives to work harder.

Royal, 53, who is the first woman to have a serious chance of becoming French president, favours measures to safeguard the country's system of social protection and state intervention to create jobs.

The winner will take over from 74-year-old Jacques Chirac, president since 1995.

Both candidates are seen as representatives of a younger generation of politicians, promising new ideas to tackle France's runaway national debt, high unemployment and the festering discontent in high-immigration city suburbs.

Polling booths open at 8.00 am Sunday and close 12 hours later, with normally reliable projections due out immediately. Voting was taking place a day early in France's overseas territories in the Americas.

Sarkozy and Royal were the top two candidates in the first round and the two-week second round campaign has focussed on the 6.8 million people who chose the defeated centrist Francois Bayrou on April 22.

The highpoint of the campaign was Wednesday's televised debate between Sarkozy and Royal, which was watched by some 20 million viewers.

Royal showed an unexpectedly aggressive streak in the head-to-head -- at one point accusing Sarkozy of "political immorality". Her attacks won high praise from supporters, but surveys subsequently showed most voters found Sarkozy the more convincing.

Continuing to trail in the polls, Royal launched a fierce personal assault on Sarkozy Friday, saying his election would provoke violence in the high-immigration suburbs that were the centre of riots in 2005.

Referring to his "dangerous candidacy," Royal said she had a "responsibility to issue an alert over the risks ... regarding the violence and brutalities that will be triggered across the country. Everyone knows it but no one says it. It is a kind of taboo."

Sarkozy responded that "never in the history of the Fifth Republic have such violent and threatening comments been heard. Saying that if you vote for a candidate there will be violence is simply to reject the right to democratic expression."

French newspapers Saturday are banned from reporting polls or comments by either candidate.
 

djv

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For all the chit France is in. At least thats what were told. I can't fgure how there market is cashing in as it has. It's been easier to make some cash there much like China then here. Even tho we now have caught back up to 1999/2000 highs. So all has not been to bad for France.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Conservative romps in largest turnout since 1981--
French apparently have change of heart and vote in pro U.S./bush pres vs a U.S./Bush bashing socialist--huge celebrations followed as well as the normal rioting and protesting from the left :)




PARIS (AFP) - Right-winger Nicolas Sarkozy trounced Socialist rival Segolene Royal in the French presidential election Sunday, to win a clear mandate for tough economic and social reforms.


Wild celebrations erupted among tens of thousands of Sarkozy supporters in Paris as soon as polls closed and projections announced the former interior minister's triumph. But police also battled a few hundred rioters in the capital and Lyon.

According to projections, Sarkozy won about 53 percent of the vote to 47 percent for Royal who quickly conceded defeat in the battle to replace President Jacques Chirac.

Despite his tough-talking image, Sarkozy said he would be the president of the whole nation.

"My thoughts go out to all those French people who did not vote for me," he said in a victory speech.

"I want to say to them that -- above and beyond the political fight, above and beyond differences of opinion -- for me there is only one France. I will be president of all the French. I will speak for all of them," he said.

The turnout of about 85 percent was the highest since 1981, officials said
, and reflected the widespread interest in the election of a new generation of French leaders.

Delirious members of the ruling Union for a Popular Movement (UMP) chanted "Nicolas - President!" as champagne bottles popped at the party's campaign headquarters.

"Now is the time for me to give back to France what France has given to me," Sarkozy said. "Together we are going to write a new page of history. The page, I am sure, will be great and it will be beautiful."

At the Socialist Party headquarters, Royal supporters, many in tears, gloomily digested a third consecutive presidential defeat after 1995 and 2002.

Royal, who had hoped to be France's first woman president, conceded victory, saying: "I gave it all I had and will continue to be with you and close to you."

World leaders were quick to acknowledge Sarkozy as the new French leader.

US President George W. Bush telephoned Sarkozy to congratulate him on his victory within an hour of the projections being announced, said a White House spokesman.

Some hope for a new era in relations after the frostiness caused by Chirac's opposition to the Iraq war.

Sarkozy said the United States can count on friendship from France but urged Washington to show leadership in the struggle against global warming and that it would be a priority for his government.

Sarkozy said "a great nation like the United States has the duty to not create obstacles in the struggle against global warming."

"The United States and France are historic allies and partners. President Bush looks forward to working with president-elect Sarkozy as we continue our strong alliance," the White House spokesman said.

Chirac, British Prime Minister Tony Blair and a host of European leaders also telephoned Sarkozy, with German Chancellor Angela Merkel saying she was convinced Sarkozy would maintain the French-German axis at the heart of the European Union.

Thousands gathered on the historic Place de la Concorde in central Paris where Sarkozy again gave his unifying message before a special concert with veteran French rocker Johnny Hallyday.

Police reinforcements were deployed around the capital to head off the risk of unrest by youths from high-immigrants areas where there were riots in 2005.

Riot police fired tear gas at stone-throwing protestors gathered in central Paris to demonstrate against Sarkozy's win.

About 5,000 Royal supporters gathered in the Place de la Bastille and up to 300 rioters, some of them masked, made running attacks on riot police.

A small crowd of protestors, brandishing black and red anarchist flags, set fire to an effigy of Sarkozy in the square. There were also incidents in the second city of Lyon.

On the last day of the campaign Royal -- slipping badly in opinion polls -- had issued a stark warning that a Sarkozy victory would trigger "violence and brutality" across the country.

Sarkozy will take over from Chirac on May 16, and has promised to act quickly to enact key items of his manifesto.

His campaign was based on the theme of "la rupture" -- a clean break from past policies which he blamed for creating France's runaway debt, high unemployment and festering discontent in the high-immigration suburbs

After legislative elections in June -- in which he will seek a clear majority for the UMP and its allies -- he plans a special National Assembly session to set off his reform drive.

These include the abolition of tax on overtime, swingeing cuts in inheritance tax, a law guaranteeing minimum service in transport strikes, and rules to oblige the unemployed to take up offered work.


On the social front he has pledged minimum jail terms for serial offenders and tougher rules to make it harder for immigrants to bring extended families to France.
His right-wing programme was in sharp contrast to Royal's promise to extend state protection via the creation of 500,000 public sector jobs and an increased minimum wage.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wonder if Hilliary is taking notes--wonder if the sheeples continue to bite on lberals U.S. being
most hated country--after Canada-Germany-Australia and now the most liberal country on earth swith horses?? Will the media smarten up and quit promoting their bogus polls in light of the real polls--nah --but you'll see NTY-Times-Newsweek circulations continue to slide and CNN will will have hard time busting 500,000 viewer primetime.

One of his 1st agendas is supporting Euro's on putting sqeeze on Iran--

All in all a good day for democracy and free world--bad news for terrorist-socialist and liberals.
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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Maybe Smurph--I was a little rough on my opinion and apologize--will try and stick to the facts and less opinion--This is a very big step in favor of U.S. in general--and lots of lessons to be learned--

France's Sarkozy plans reform package By ANGELA DOLAND, Associated Press Writer
11 minutes ago



PARIS - French president-elect Nicolas Sarkozy plans to waste no time pushing through a weighty package of pro-market, anti-crime reforms ? but the first battle is winning a majority in parliament in new elections next month.

Sarkozy, a pro-American conservative and an immigrant's son, defeated Socialist Segolene Royal by 53.06 percent to 46.94 percent with an 85 percent voter turnout, according to final results released early Monday.

The win gave Sarkozy a strong mandate for his vision of France's future: He wants to free up labor markets, calls France's 35-hour work week "absurd" and plans tougher measures on crime and immigration.

"The people of France have chosen change," Sarkozy told cheering supporters in a victory speech that sketched out a stronger global role for France and renewed partnership with the United States.

Exit polls offered some surprises. Some 49 percent of blue-collar workers ? traditionally leftist voters ? chose Sarkozy, according to an Ipsos/Dell poll. Some 32 percent of people who usually vote for the Greens and 14 percent who normally support the far-left also went with Sarkozy. The poll surveyed 3,609 voters and had a margin of error of about 2 percent.

A headline Monday in Les Echos newspaper, a financial daily, read: "President Sarkozy: a wide majority for reforming the country in depth."

Still, his task will not be easy. Sarkozy is certain to face resistance from powerful unions to his plans to make the French work more and make it easier for companies to hire and fire.

Sarkozy planned to stay out of the public eye for a few days, said Francois Fillon, an adviser often cited as a candidate for prime minister. Sarkozy "will retire to somewhere in France to unwind a little ... and to start organizing and preparing his teams," Fillon told TF1 television.

The new president plans to take over power from outgoing leader Jacques Chirac on May 16. Fillon said Sarkozy's new government would be installed May 19 or 20.

The election left little time for celebrating: Legislative elections are slated for June 10 and 17, and Sarkozy's conservative UMP party needs a majority to keep his mandate for reforms. A win by the left would bring "cohabitation" ? an awkward power-sharing with a leftist prime minister ? which would put a stop to his plans.

Sarkozy, 52, has drawn up a whirlwind agenda for his first 100 days in office and plans to put big reforms before parliament at an extraordinary session in July. One bill would make overtime pay tax-free to encourage people to work more. Another would put in place tougher sentencing for repeat offenders, and still another would toughen up the criteria for immigrants trying to bring their families to France.

On election night, scattered violence was reported around France. There had been fears that the impoverished suburban housing projects, home to Arab and African immigrants and their French-born children, would erupt again at the victory of a man who labeled those responsible for rioting in 2005 as "scum." Police reported that 270 people were taken in for questioning and that 367 parked vehicles had been torched. On a typical night in France, about 100 cars are burned.

That abrasive style raised doubts over whether Sarkozy, himself the son of a Hungarian refugee, could unite a politically polarized, increasingly diverse nation.

Late Sunday, small bands of youths hurled stones and other objects at police at the Place de la Bastille in Paris. Some bared their backsides at riot officers behind their shields, and police fired volleys of tear gas. Two police unions said firebombs targeted schools and recreation centers in several towns in the Essonne region just south of Paris.

In Sarkozy's victory speech, he reached out to those he has alienated in the past, promising to be president "of all the French, without exception."

The White House said President Bush had called to congratulate Sarkozy, who is largely untested in foreign policy but reached out to the United States in his victory speech, an indication of his desire to break from the trans-Atlantic tension of the Chirac era.

Sarkozy also made it clear that France would remain an independent voice.

The United States, he declared, can "count on our friendship," but he added that "friendship means accepting that friends can have different opinions."

He urged the United States to take the lead on climate change and said the issue would be a priority for France.

"A great nation, like the United States, has a duty not to block the battle against global warming but ? on the contrary ? to take the lead in this battle, because the fate of the whole of humanity is at stake," Sarkozy said.

In some European capitals, Sarkozy's victory inspired hope that he might lend a decisive hand to efforts to salvage the European Union's hopes of greater integration, largely on hold since French and Dutch voters rejected a proposed EU constitution in 2005.

The hand-over of power ushers in a president from a new generation, who has no memory of World War II and waged the country's first high-octane Internet campaign.

Royal would have been France's first female president. Her defeat could throw her party into disarray, with splits between those who say it must remain firm to its leftist traditions and others who want a shift to the political center like socialist parties elsewhere in Europe.

Following the defeat, high-ranking Socialist Bernard Kouchner, the former health minister who co-founded Doctors Without Borders, immediately called for the party to stop courting the far-left and ally the center. "We have to change our formatting, our ways of thinking, on the left," he told TF1.
 

Chadman

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I notice you didn't highlight this part...

Sarkozy said the United States can count on friendship from France but urged Washington to show leadership in the struggle against global warming and that it would be a priority for his government.

Sarkozy said "a great nation like the United States has the duty to not create obstacles in the struggle against global warming."


Apparently, the French were unhappy with their current leader and path, and a majority wanted a change. I agree with an original premise, that our election in '08 will probably mirror that.
 

kosar

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I wonder if posters on the French political boards got this excited after our '06 mid-term elections.

It's really a stretch to treat another countrys election as any sort of referendum on our government. One thing has nothing to do with another.

Regarding all these so-called newly 'conservative' countries. Australia, Germany, Canada, and now France: how many troops from those countries are helping out in Iraq?

For whatever different reasons in those countries, they chose conservative leaders to fix whatever problems they were having or for whatever reason(s). It really doesn't help or affect us much at all.

Also, seeing as W's approval rating is 28% in the recent poll here, I wonder what it would be in those 'conservative' countries, if they were polled. 10%? 15%?

Speaking of that poll I mentioned. Ann Coulter was on FOX earlier and asked about the French election. Almost immediately after she had an orgasm while talking about the election, she started railing on about 'push polls for Al-Qaeda.'

I love that lady.
 

smurphy

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One thing has nothing to do with another.
I went through about a dozen different ways to make this statement. Can't see how this could even remotely be an indication of what will happen here in 18 months. Funny logic.
 

kosar

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Reading the NY Post at lunch today, I learned something. Sarkozy and Chirac are from the same party.

And that Sarkozy had to overcome Chirac's dreadful approval ratings to bring the election home.

Finally! An accurate 'preview' of 2008.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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"Also, seeing as W's approval rating is 28% in the recent poll here, I wonder what it would be in those 'conservative' countries, if they were polled. 10%? 15%? "

I would assume Matt if cbs-cnn-time-newsweek ect were polling they could get those #'s--believe some poll showed that they thought Bush was worse than hitler--but appears the "real" polls don't confirm that.

While I'm not sharpest tack in box--I can look at 04 elections 3 years after iraq invasion and know what undisputed polls show compared to some liberal orgs polling of their "1000 people" and would figure anyone that thinks Rosie O'donald and others like her have more influence in the world than pres of U.S. (whoever it is) --need to be put on an allowance--and have parential controls on their computer and tv.--but then again Newsweek still has a few subscribers--CNN keeps about 1/2 mill viewers and the blogs/moveon/code pink ect still dictate liberal politicians agendas.:shrug:
 

kosar

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"Also, seeing as W's approval rating is 28% in the recent poll here, I wonder what it would be in those 'conservative' countries, if they were polled. 10%? 15%? "

I would assume Matt if cbs-cnn-time-newsweek ect were polling they could get those #'s--believe some poll showed that they thought Bush was worse than hitler--but appears the "real" polls don't confirm that.

While I'm not sharpest tack in box--I can look at 04 elections 3 years after iraq invasion and know what undisputed polls show compared to some liberal orgs polling of their "1000 people" and would figure anyone that thinks Rosie O'donald and others like her have more influence in the world than pres of U.S. (whoever it is) --need to be put on an allowance--and have parential controls on their computer and tv.--but then again Newsweek still has a few subscribers--CNN keeps about 1/2 mill viewers and the blogs/moveon/code pink ect still dictate liberal politicians agendas.:shrug:

The '04 elections were not '3 years' after the Iraq occupation. They were 18 months after, and also not long after Dudley Doolittle stood on that aircraft carrier with his Johnny Holmes cup stuffed down there. There was still hope/expectation that WMD would be found. The 'liberal' media still hadn't gotten around to examining the occupation and the words/proclamations of the prosecutors of the war and the, ummm, we'll say, 'inconsistencies' that had already emerged.

You don't like that poll? Fine. You have quoted plenty of polls from the 'code pink' organizations when it suits you, but fine.

But don't try to tell me that an election in France, or anywhere, means there is some sort of groundswell of support for America within other countries.

A one line poll of 50,000 citizens of almost any other country-

'Do you have a favorable opinion of America today'

would come in at no more than 25% in almost every country and no more than 40% in other than maybe 2 or 3.

I would bet anything on that.

Did you know that Sarkozy and Chirac are from the same party? I didn't, before today. Interesting. Or actually it isn't.
 

The Sponge

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I notice you didn't highlight this part...

Sarkozy said the United States can count on friendship from France but urged Washington to show leadership in the struggle against global warming and that it would be a priority for his government.

Sarkozy said "a great nation like the United States has the duty to not create obstacles in the struggle against global warming."


Apparently, the French were unhappy with their current leader and path, and a majority wanted a change. I agree with an original premise, that our election in '08 will probably mirror that.

Exactly the same thought i had but pointing this out to a guy like Dog, im starting to think is huge waste of my time. Its one thing to try to debate someone who will try to be open and think about something compared to another who is like talking to a brick wall.
 
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