Speaking from the heart.. about going pay

[theGibber1]

this is a cut and paste job from the baseball forum... I stupidly gave NDNFAN a hard time about going pay.. i know i shouldnt have singled him out cause lots of guys are doing the same thing.. so to exlplain my actions i posted a response in his thread..

but after reading it, i thought it might be something all should see.. i tried to show my true colors and speak from the heart.. i probably came off as a huge dick head.. but its the way i feel..

this is part I....
part II is on the way..

paste..........



PART I

first let me say speaking with written words is a bit of a weak spot with me.. its very hard for me to get my point across sometimes. i dont know, i guess being in sales so long im just better with the ol face to face.. but ill do my best...spelling and grammatical errors are also frequent and common so please be patient with me..

im just going to speak from the heart and hope this comes out right..

NDNFAN,


im not going to apologize for what i said or they way i feel about pay services.. i am sorry for singling you out personally.. i have the upmost respect for you, and this isnt just about you..

its just im tired of seeing this..

what i mean is, im tired of Jacks being used as a stepping stone for guys to build a clientele, then go pay...

to many times ive seen fellas come in.. they have a few winning seasons.. they build a reputation, they develop relationships, they develop friendships, and finally loyalty.. then suddley they want their loyal followers and friends to pay them money for there once free and open advice.. this seems sum what shitty to me..

and again its not just you specificallly.. im not going to drag in names, we know who others are..

its different for guys like fletch who have always had the pay service.. but frequent jacks to help out and share info.. but coming in and building a clientele first rubs me the wrong way..
hell, fletch is pay but hes here more than anyone.. where are the other jackers who went pay and used to be here daily??? they never come around anymore.. they built their clientele, they got what they needed from this site, and they dumped it..

this is probably not the way you guys see it.. but i do..


But the real problem i have with this continually happening are for selfish reasons.. what can i say im a bad person...

i work my ass off capping football and NCAA hoops.. i spend countless hours going over numbers.. as im sure all of us do..

we do it to beat the book.......we do it to make money.. well we can do that on our own..
so why post here??
whats the point.. ??
i dont post here for the glory, or for people to tell me im a great capper.. or to beat my own chest..?? i post here
A. to help others..
and
B. and more importantly, i post here so that others can help me..

the way i see it.. i have a service too... i bust my balls all season capping football... and i work even harder to produce winners in college hoops.. and i offer these picks to others here not for money..
but for the exchange of them giving me their picks and advice when i need it.. especially in sports i have little experiance with..

i busted my a$$ to cap around 66% in football this season.. and i offered them up for free.. and what do i expect in exchange for my services..??? not cash, but picks from others when it comes to my off season, and im the one who needs help.. this is how we all pay each other at Jacks..


i did pay for my picks..through all the hard work and free winners.. we all have paid.. all of us who work hard to help others.. the service is the constant exchange of ideas advice and helping each other in our weak areas.. this is how it should be..

but what keeps happening year after year during my offseasons?


"well Gibber thanks for the help in football, but if you want my help, i want money"

and its happend in every god damn sport on this site.. NBA, NCAA, NFL, and now Baseball.. every year it seems after im done working my ass off and im looking for someone to follow.. they want to go pay.. and im sick of it.. thats not what this place is about.. the other posters here are the trade off for the hard work.. but some use this place to find potential customers..

like i said this isnt about you specifically, it been bothering me more and more each time it happens..

i got upset only b/c i respect your abilities.. i think you are a fine capper.. my work for the season is almost done... and i was looking forward to following your advice.. then i found out this has happened again.. and i got upset.. sorry for singling you out..

i also have the all the respect and admiration in the world for the other guys who have gone pay.. this is more of a rant than anything..

but if all the great cappers keep leaving.. whats the point of even posting here??

i post in exchange for your advice, and it seems the well for help is running dangerously dry..


i wish you they very best NDNFAN and you will be sorely missed..

GL to you

Gibber

 

[TIME TO MAKE $$$]

Danny,


I just wanted to say thank you for all your hard work,
IT IS TRULY APPRECIATED....

I will not comment on members going pay since I have discussed that matter at hand many times. Oh well, I wish them all good luck...



P.S BUT, I will give you a :thefinger for not sending me an email yet!

 

[RAYMOND]

Snake Plissken .The people who say that are attention is all on IRAQ and that we are letting Al Qaeda go need a new argumen

COULD NOT HAVE SAY IT BETTER

WRONG TREAD

 

[mercury]

I second that, gibber;let's hope Jack doesn't go pay.

 

[Penguinfan]

Gibber,

I think I can speak from both sides of the issue, since I work for a pay service and still stop by Mad Jacks. I will never mention the name of the service here and I have never tried to lure people into being customers, truth be known I have taken alot of good information from this board and have used it in making plays sometimes, that's what a board like this is for, not the other way around, so I have to say I agree with your "rant" in principal. I try to leave a play now and then as well since I take from the board, again if I mention the name of the service the paying customers would obviously not appreciate that, but you are exactly right, boards like this need to be an exchange of information, not a stepping stone. The moderator at another board I post at will run you the minute you fish for customers anywhere except a forum he has set up for that purpose, and those posts get no views at all, that should tell you something. You can usually tell the people who are coming in just to drop an 800 number in a couple weeks, they are not so subtle in the way they do things. The bigger issue is what you talked about and I agree it is a major wrong, to come here and be-friend people, exchange information, gain their trust, coat-tail their plays, build a following and then hold out for money is just plain wrong. I don't think you came off wrong or mis-understood at all, in fact I think you said the right thing, and it is an issue that would be difficult to deal with, but maybe needs to be. I have shoveled snow out of my neighbors driveway since we bought this house, now that she is too old to do it herself I guess I should tell her it's gonna cost her major bucks or she can just be stuck for all I care. I think that falls on the same lines because while it's not my responsibility to do that for her, it would be pretty damn indecent of me (or anybody) not to.
Gibber, I don't want to take sides either, but you should not feel bad about what you wrote, more people were probably thinking it than you know.
BTW props on the excellent NFL season, you know a record like that could score you quite a profit in the Hilton Super Contest, the site I work for cashed a VERY nice check in that game this past season, I can get you the info if you want to give it a try next season. Of course if you win you will be highly recognized by gamblers everywhere and will have no choice but to go pay per view on your plays and we will be right back where we started with this thread.:shrug:

Penguinfan

 

[dr. freeze]

i used to get all upset when someone did this and when i was new to handicapping but now could care less....

you shouldn't care either Gibber...you can pick winners....let them go....only people who can't pick their ass should care and there are plenty of people left who do pick winners...

dont think we need a big speech about "going pay" but to each his own.....

 

[THE KOD]

only people who can't pick their ass should care

I will be g##$# #))#@ motho #))#)@ing Son of )#))#)#)!@
piece of ##$@!$......


Scott King of Dogs

 

[theGibber1]

only people who can't pick their ass should care

thats just it freeze.. i cant pick my ass when it comes to NBA, and Baseball... thats why i post football.... so i can follow others in these sports.. but everytime i find a guy to follow..

well you know what happens:shrug:

 

[dr. freeze]

yeah but you learn quick....

i don't think you wil have a problem learning and maybe people leaving will "uncripple" you...

plus i think you will make more $$ in the long term and enjoy it more

 

[dr. freeze]

its sorta like taking a guy off welfare by "forcing" him to work....not only is he more productive for society as a whole, but he enjoys life more, gets satisfaction from being productive, and enjoys the timely vacation (the coattail) instead of sitting around all day with nothign to do depressed (sitting here waiting for someones picks)...

its the "conservative" approach to handicapping....lol

 

[acehistr8]

I can safetly see both sides of this issue. I have been at Madjacks the last couple of years and have overall been very succesful including a great run through the last two months of baseball last year. When I wasnt unemployed, I put a great deal of time and effort into my writeups and research and really enjoyed the hell out of the work I did. I dont think it was only because I was successful, I think it was also from the friendships that you build with people as you get to know them and their style.

Towards the middle of the NFL season, I got a number of emails from people asking why I didnt go pay. This included an offer from one group and one individual to buy my picks if I took my page down and agreed not to post my opinions on games. My feeling is that you know what, I make a lot of good friends here at Madjacks and when I was betting, I was making a lot of good money betting my own picks.

And I guess on that note that yeah I do believe in the old addage, if your picks are so great, if you are such a great handicapper, why dont you bet your own picks, make money on them, and stop by here to maintain your relationships and share your knowledge? If your picks are so good, why do you need to charge people for them, rather than make money off of selling them?

But it happens so often that yeah I dont care anymore. Just take a look at what happened in the WNBA forum last year. I dont know how many of us were posting, maybe a hald dozen, but we all killed the books the first half of the year. Just a bunch of folks most of you had never heard of making money and having fun. Just remember, for every one guy going out the door who thinks he's the shit, there will be a dozen new guys coming in all of whom may be more valuable to you in the long run.

Look I know there will always be two sides to this issue and I really harbor no ill will towards people who strike out on their own. If you want to strike out on your own accord, hell that is what living in this country is all about. Wish you all the best, hope you still stop by once in a while. And if not, dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

 

[djv]

One correction. Fletcher only went pay about 20 months ago. He still when he has time post a free game or two. I was mad about it for a while then said hope it works. I really liked Fletcher and how he went about his plays. So I felt chit on. Some time going pay screws some cappers up. They cant handle the pressure. Guys you have to remember this site is about making money. It's only right MJ makes a few bucks. There is just to much work to not make a little something. I think we have had 7 or 8 now go pay.

 

[fletcher]

sorry djv i have been with a service for over 5.5 years, i just never talked about it much i did the games and the service a big one at that used their name. i have been on own for 23 months ,but have been a paid handicapper for 5.5 years and i give lots back just not plays. ask people on here how much i have donated to their cause or chairty. Just gave 200 out sat to a group. Why do i always get brought up. **** i give more then 1/8th of the people probably bet here in a year. Cold hard cash not because i have to but want to.

 

[Palmetto Pimp]

djv, why talk about fletcher when you have NO clue....
hes one of the nicest guys ive ever met, would do anything for anybody....why pout cuz he went pay....if you do something good, you should get paid for it, no matter what it is, you felt shit on cuz he went pay? lmao

 

[kickserv]

hey Gibber FWIW I thank you for your plays........and in the "off season" come on over to "off the wall" and see my tennis plays

I assure you I'll never go pay.....who would ever pay for tennis picks


also.....great points by everyone.......good luck to all and hope everybody makes money

 

[djv]

njsf25g I only mentioned Fletch because someone above said he had always been a pay service. I did not believe that was true. Hey Fletch corrected me and did not need your help. And yes for a few days after he stopped posting his top plays I felt like chit. I did appreciate what he did and felt lost for afew days. That was my fault becasue I got lazy and did not do as much of my own capping as I should have. If Fletch is doing good im happy for him. And I also agree with him. Give some thing back when every you have the chance such as for charites. I do lots of that work in my city.

 

[THE KOD]

Re: Speaking from the heart.. about going pay

im not going to apologize for what i said or they way i feel about pay services.. i am sorry for singling you out personally.. i have the upmost respect for you, and this isnt just about you..

its just im tired of seeing this..

what i mean is, im tired of Jacks being used as a stepping stone for guys to build a clientele, then go pay...

to many times ive seen fellas come in.. they have a few winning seasons.. they build a reputation, they develop relationships, they develop friendships, and finally loyalty.. then suddley they want their loyal followers and friends to pay them money for there once free and open advice.. this seems sum what shitty to me..

GL to you

Gibber

You probably dont want to hear this Gibber but I predict that within the next year you will also go the pay route.

And why shouldn't you ?

If you can repeat last football season you will have a record of success. If you dont know how to go about it I am sure many around here that have done it can fill you in.

The best of the best can make it. Its a grind though I am thinking.
I wouldnt want to do it. Nope. Course I didn't hit 60 per cent in football last year either.

I guess what I am saying is that I wouldn't blame you if you did go pay.

I would just have to sign up and pay for the winners.




Scott King of Dogs

 

[djv]

Scott, soon those right wingers will start closing down gambling.
We better watch who we vote for nexr two years real close. May need more of those Lefty boys bad.

 

[THE KOD]

djv

who are some of them leftys,

so I can kinda be on the lookout for them.



Scott King of Dogs