super delegates; metioned in another thread, here's an article on it...

SixFive

bonswa
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Mar 12, 2001
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informative, and a good read for those of us who didn't know :wtf: a super delegate was.


Super delegates may sink the Democrats
Rules adopted in 1982 to take back the nominating process could haunt the party's leaders.
By Joshua Spivak

January 19, 2008

With the presidential nominations still very much up for grabs, the 2008 primaries have quickly shaped up as the most interesting in recent memory.

Some early predictions were that the nominations would be a foregone conclusion by now or, at the latest, after Feb. 5, when 24 states, including California, hold primaries and caucuses. But both parties' races are still so tight and in flux that there is a chance in each party that no candidate will capture enough votes to secure the nomination before the conventions. This development would lead to great upheaval for either party, but it may be a significantly bigger danger for the Democrats because of a rule enacted in 1982 by party leaders. In 2008, the result may be a Democratic convention choosing a nominee who lacks the legitimacy of being the "people's choice."

Until 1972, there was no uniform primary-and-caucus system; the nominees of both parties were chosen by the convention delegates. But after the tumultuous 1968 Democratic primary races, and after party leaders ensured then-Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey received the nomination despite not running in any primary, the party opened up the process. Suddenly, primaries and caucuses became the important component to the nominee selection process.

However, this did not help the party win the presidency. The 1972 nominee, George McGovern, did very well in the primaries but went on to a crushing defeat in the general election. The party leaders saw further erosion of their own power in the two succeeding elections, as little-heralded Jimmy Carter won the nomination and the presidency in 1976, and Edward Kennedy was able to mount an unsuccessful but damaging primary challenge to Carter in 1980. In response, party leaders made a significant revision to the selection process.

In 1982, party leaders allocated for themselves a heaping portion of the delegates, creating positions called super delegates. Every Democratic member of Congress, every Democratic governor and all of the elected members of the Democratic National Committee (the majority of the super delegates) were each granted a vote at the convention. Party leaders assumed this would help them retain a measure of control over the process -- and of course continue to be granted the bounty of political favors that historically flowed from backing the right horse at the convention. In 2008, the 796 super delegates will make up about 20% of the entire convention. Winning the nomination requires 2,025 delegates.

In creating the super delegates, Democratic Party leaders sought to show that although they respected the popular will as expressed in the primaries and caucuses, they also expected that the super delegates could play a significant if not necessarily decisive role in the selection process. However, it did not work out that way. Popular will has put one candidate far enough ahead by the convention that the super delegates haven't come into play. Every nominee since these reforms has been decided based on the primary and caucus votes.

This year might be different. Because no front-runner has emerged, and the compressed time frame of the election may prevent any candidate from gaining enough momentum, no candidate may have enough delegates by convention time. In that case, the super delegates, the majority of whom currently support Hillary Rodham Clinton -- but who could switch sides at any time -- could well be the decision-makers at the convention. And this could be a real problem for the Democratic Party.

In general, the last place the public would want the nominee selected is on the convention floor. In the heyday of the conventions, when the presidential candidates were selected in backrooms and on the floor, there were always rumors of vote buying and corrupt bargains for the nomination. Today, such events could fatally weaken the candidate in the public's eyes. The existence of super delegates would compound the problem.

The elected delegates, though virtually unknown, are at least selected by the voters and pledged to the candidate those voters chose. Most of the super delegates aren't chosen by the general populace, and they are not bound by the votes in their respective states. If they end up making the difference in the nomination -- especially if the winner came into the convention in second place -- there is a strong possibility of disenchanting a good portion of the party's base, potentially costing the party the election.
 

escarzamd

...abides.
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Dec 26, 2003
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Current numbers........(sorry, thought i fixed table:shrug: )

Delegate Count

State / Date Deleg. O C

Total - - 1143 1137

Super Delegates - 796 139 213

Iowa 01/03 45 16 15

New Hampshire 01/08 22 9 9

Michigan 01/15 0 * - -

Nevada 01/19 25 13 12

South Carolina 01/26 45 25 12

Florida 01/29 0 * C - -

California 02/05 370 163 207

New York 02/05 232 C 93 139

Illinois 02/05 153 104 49

New Jersey 02/05 107 48 59

Massachusetts 02/05 93 38 55

Georgia 02/05 87 61 26

Minnesota 02/05 72 48 24

Missouri 02/05 72 36 36

Tennessee 02/05 68 29 39

Colorado 02/05 55 C 19 9

Arizona 02/05 56 C 25 31

Alabama 02/05 52 27 24

Connecticut 02/05 48 C 26 22

Arkansas 02/05 35 8 27

Oklahoma 02/05 38 C 14 24

Kansas 02/05 32 C 23 9

New Mexico 02/05 26 C 12 13

Utah 02/05 23 14 9

Delaware 02/05 15 C 9 6

Idaho 02/05 18 15 3

North Dakota 02/05 13 8 5

Alaska 02/05 13 C 9 4

American Samoa 02/05 3 1 2

Washington 02/09 78 43 15

Louisiana 02/09 56 C 34 22

Nebraska 02/09 24 16 8

Virgin Islands 02/09 3 3 -

Maine 02/10 24 C 15 9

2,025 Delegates Needed to Win (Delegate Counts Come From AP, Wash Post, CBS News & RCP)

Upcoming States & RealClearPolitics Averages

State / Date Deleg Ob Clin

Virginia 02/12 101 54.8 37.5

Maryland 02/12 99 C 54.0 33.0

District of Columbia 02/12 38 C


Looming.......Texas 232, Ohio 161, Penn 188, NC 134.....all others under 100......plus FL / MI - big counts not yet addressed.


3547 pledged delegates........if MI/FL counted, figure around 3800......only 100ish pledged delegates undecided or with Edwards......so unless there is a seismic shift in vote (Barry would have to pull in around 63% of the rest to take it cleanly), the Soopers will decide this contest. We'll get to pay this one a lot of lip service since it is the "elephant in the room" du jour........

Will this take a ripe moment in history for the Democratic Party and flush it down the toilet with sniping and backroom deals? The trust in the party is fragile at best. The other elephant in the room is race, like it or not. Any deal that looks shady in Team Clinton's favor will not sit well with ANYONE whose votes have been cast, but you can bet 2 units that the 4th estate will be splashing the racial angle all over the place because its "good copy."

My guess? If its Barry that closer, no way in hell HC backs off and deals. team Clinton will look to cash in on their place in history and squeeze some nuts in the party to get their way. Switch spots, and Barry might be "magnanimous," cut a deal, and cede the nomination. Hope not.....when its all said and done, he's gonna have a case, and Penn could be a jump ball if he can get Edwards to back him before April (I'm assuming PN still a blue-callar, labor-heavy state).......

:0corn Keep it clean boys.......and let's get it on!
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
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Jan 10, 2002
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most likely scenario...hill beats barry like a rented mule in pa/texas/ohio and leads going into convention(then ,it`s over)....


most interesting scenario....barry leads the delelgate count going into convention and hillary pulls some political strings,bill calls in some old markers,and she pulls it out thanks to the super d`s......

civil war will ensue...

i`m hoping that barry doesn`t succumb as easily as romney.....`cause it will be 8 years until he gets another shot,and a lot can happen in 8 years....(i.e..another young african american come to the fore.....the country gets sick of 8 years of hillary and the pendulum swings back yet again-as it always does,runs in cycles....barry will have an actual record by then and that makes it much harder....or,a new ,younger latino politician becomes the flavor of the month)....

barry better do it this time...
 
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