The lunacy of Michael Moore & Friends

[ferdville]

Imagine for a moment that you believe firmly, as does Mr. Moore, in the utter, absolute truth of the following:
1. Bush is a fictitious president who "won" a fictitious election.
2. The war in Iraq is a fictitious war fought for oil, Cheney's friends at Haliburton, and Jrs revenge.

If you honestly believed this, I can only see 2 courses of action you could take. One would be to leave the country. Two would be to start an armed revolution to take over the government. I notice that Moore, Penn, Streisand, et al have done neither.

Don't tell me that they will try to educate the populace in order to defeat Bush in the next election. If this election was "rigged", why wouldn't the next election be similarly "fictitious"? Why wouldn't those in power rig all the elections now and in the future?

If you really believed that our government fixed elections (I'm not referring to Kennedy), no appeal to the voters would be of any use. Essentially, we would no longer have our democratic republic but instead would be ruled by Bush and his henchmen.

If you really believed that Cheney would start a war and effectively murder scores of Americans and thousands of Iraquis just so that his friends at Haliburton could make some money, why would you remain here?

If common assertions such as these are indeed facts, this would be a dangerous place to be if you were a dissenter. I, for one, would either seek another country to live in or attempt to muster enough support for a revolt. Who would subject themselves to living under these conditions? Of course, Moore's only option would be to leave since neither he nor his friends believe in firearms.

 

[StevieD]

Ferd, seeing as you love this country so much that you can't possibly understand how someone who does not believe in the course set by the present administration could possibly live here I have a question for you. Why didn't you leave during the Clinton years? He obviously was not your type of leader. I don't see how you could remain here. You obviously couldn't question his choices because that, according to your thinking would be UnAmerican. For the life of me I can't see how you stayed.

 

[Nick Douglas]

Amen, StevieD.

 

[gardenweasel]

moore

moore

keeps pictures of ramsey clark and scott ritter in his wallet....not that there`s anything wrong with that

 

[PRO190]

And a FAMILY picture that includes NICK and STEVIE::

They are just Embarrassed b/c the War is shown to have been the Correct decision::Sorry boys , the PEOPLE of IRAQ want to thank the Soldiers for their FREEDOM, IF it would have been done YOUR WAY most of the PEOPLE of IRAQ would still be living under a Blanket of fear,terror and poverty::It will take a year to get all the basic aspects in order and to a start the real rebuilding , but where would they all be a year from now if the U.S. had not made the move to stop this Brutal Regime, Covered by the same blanket of HELL::

I'm sure you will be receiving a Thank-you note from all the citizens of Iraq for your support to give them a LIFE::NOT!!!

 

[StevieD]

Pro, I am not embarrased that we won the war. I think we all knew we would win the military aspect of this. Now the real fun starts but that is besides the point.
Pro, I do have a question for you though, how long has it been bothering that the people of Iraq were not free? Are there any other countries you can think of where the people are oppressed?
Actually, I ask those question in jest. But do not confuse most of us who are against the war as being against America. Hell, if you think that way then you would have to denounce Limbaugh and Fox news for not supporting out troops when Clinton used them.
To sum up my feelings I am happy that this aspect of the war is over. But this was not the part I was worried about. But thats ok. We won a great military victory over a third world rag tag army. Celebrate you deserve it!

 

[Bluemound Freak]

Stevie.......Let me ask you a question! Would you have a different view if Clinton was still in office and he had made the call to go to war?


Rag-tag army keeps getting mentioned..........were they not rag-tag in the first Gulf-War? You people make me sick, can only find the negative and stick your smart-assed comments in whenever possible! I say this...........I supported Clinton's decisions to go over in 91 and his bombing's to cover up the blow-job! So what will it take for all the finger pointing to stop........:shrug:

 

[neverteaseit]

So what will it take for all the finger pointing to stop........

Hillary Clinton elected president.

 

[StevieD]

To answer your question Blue no I would not have believed in this war if it was being by Clinton either. Blue,I am not a Democrat or a Republican. I do not think around party lines. I get the feeling that you do not either, and that is good. I can't stand people who change their ideology depending what their party decides to do. Limbaugh and Fox come to mind.
I do not know if they were rag-tag or not in the first war but they certainly were no match for out technology.
This War as it is being called....infact if this is part of the War on Terrorism then wouldn't this only be a battle? But that is a question for another post. This war is only the beginning as we all know and maybe I am wrong but if members of my family were blown up by America's bombs I would be looking for revenge.

 

[neverteaseit]

I disagree with your post about revenge. While serving in 91 for desert weekend I never got to basra but i got as close as az zubayr. and from what people told us at that time was that no sacrifice was to great for saddam to be exiled or eliminanted. They had sacrificed enough from saddams reign and death was a way of life to them. Something that would continue while he ruled. These people have wanted freedom for years but had no means of having a succesful uprising. Anyone who was a threat to saddam was either killed, exiled or escaped. While it is sad that civilians are lost and anger may be among some. Most will look at the sacrifice as a gain to a better life.

I always love how everyone knows how the Iraqi people think but have never stepped foot in Iraq or actually even talked to an Iraqi citizen. You people have no fukking clue to what even has went on in Iraq. When this is over the stories will be told. I am glad liberation is near. One of the saddest days of my life was when we pulled out and to see the look on those people faces. That is an image that will stay in my mind forever.

 

[PRO190]

1: We had to win a Military Battle to be able to Win the liberation and rebuilding "battle"::

So were the BAD guy again b/c we have a better military,Rag-TAG, that is b/c the US military made them a Rag-tag Army:

Russia got there ass kicked in Afgahn for 10 yrs , it took the US military 6 wks to reduce the taliban to just a scattered guerrilla force::

I'm not saying that being against the WAR was being against America, IT WAS being AGAINST GIVING the IRAQI people LIBERATION! They would STILL be living a life Of OPPRESSION b/c of your liberal political views::

I support the people doing the Dirty work in this country, the soldier, construction worker, miner, Foundry worker, etc etc , not the Political scum(Talk show host[1 exception Oreilly] politicians,CEOs, etc etc) who ride the Stucture of this country, the Blue Collar!

Stevie say Hi to Chirac when you go visit and give him a little Gift from all the soldiers and Iraqi people:nutkick:

Thats all L&G, next subject

 

[Bluemound Freak]

I consider myself a Republican, But I am the final decision maker on my own view of things! I like some of the Republican ideas and I respect the ideas of the Democratic party but I have more commonality with the republican party so there for I am a Republican! If the Freak ever starts a Party I will be a Freakian! Just that simple! I do try to find the positive and similar things about both sides in most cases and give a pat on the back and a thumbs up when credit is due! I although am ( I aint pickin on you stevie ) sick of the damn Democratic nation that no matter if Bush and his "REGIME" Solved world hunger, Found a cure for Aids and SARS in the same day, brought on Peace on Earth, Balanced the Budget, Saved the Whales, and ended the destruction of the rainforest all over lunch, WOULD STILL FIND SOMETHING NEGATIVE ABOUT IT! It pains me to think that no matter how successful Bush's agenda is, that people will still point their fingers and say what he did wrong! It is like some sort of pre-cursor to pesimistic life on Earth to be a Democratic beleiver! And yes there are plenty of Republican's that I would like to slap the shit out of and say " What the hell are you thinking" and when they need that I will be there to voice my thoughts!

I guess what I am trying to say is find some common ground and stand on it because if we don't we are all just floating around tossing stones at each other's individual real estate!

 

[StevieD]

With all due respect Blue there really has not been too much to cheer about during Bush's term. Not that all of it is his fault. Most of his agendas I am sure got buried with 9/11.
Now some people like Pro and a few others on here think you are either Pro Bush and his ideas or you are French!
That simply is not true. I don't have go say hello to Chirac because I am against this military action any more than you guys who are for it have to say hello to Richard Perle.
Nevertease I am sure that you know a lot more of Iraqi culture than I do.
The fact remains that we all want the same ending to this drama be it 6 months or a year or longer down the road. Our only differences is in the road taken to get there.
I never heard anyone say, even Michale Moore, that Hussein was good, or that he should remain in power. We only had differences in how he was to be removed.

 

[Iminforabuck]

What method were you in favor of for his removal? A U.N. Resolution?

 

[neverteaseit]

Well I Strongly disagree with talking and un resolutions as being the way to solve this issue. I will say one thing about what you people have argued about over OUR GOVERNMENTS decision to war.


The argument has been made that Saddam never attacked us and that he may or may not have had WMD'S, and they may or may not have been used against us, by terrorist or whoever. An answer that none of you have. speculation is one thing but false hope is another. No one can answer this ? correctly. But I know when this is over he cannot do anything. And for this I am glad for, and all others should be too! Finally we have a leader who didn't dance around the issue and feel that world opinion is the only opinion on this issue. Our president was not afraid to put his job on the line for what he truly believed in. Protecting your's and my asses. And if you still believe this is about oil and so forth, then you are truly blinded by your political views. Like him or not. disagree or agree. He has stood firm on this issue and promised people would pay for 9/11 and anyone else who threatens the U.S. And though he has not gotten in done as fast as some would like. the bottom line it is happening as he said it would.

Also big props to TONY BLAIR and the BRITS! You have a great leader. Just be sure to show it for him and your military personnel!

 

[StevieD]

>>Saddam defied a 15-0 Security Council resolution ordering it to
cooperate in turning over its WMDs, and the US and Britain began a
"strong, sustained" bombing campaign to make it comply.




What if [Saddam] fails to comply and we fail to act, or we take some
>>ambiguous third route, which gives him yet more opportunities to
>>develop this program of weapons of mass destruction? ... Well, he will
>>conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will
>>then conclude that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an
>>arsenal of devastating destruction. And some day, some way, I
>>guarantee you he'll use the arsenal."


Oh just so you know that was Clinton explaing why he bombed Iraq in 1998. Before 9/11.

So this is no new idea that Bush had. I happen to think it was wrong then and I think it is wrong now. I don't think you are going to get warring tribes unite under the flag of democracy in that part of the world.

 

[dr. freeze]

if the campaign took a while "it was a quagmire"

if the campaign goes to short "it is not a fair fight"

we have heard both from the left criticizing whatever happens...they get exposed time and again and yet they fail to learn that they are in fact the ones always rooting for negativity

 

[StevieD]

Freeze you really have to stop with all that right wing crapolla. No one is saying it took to short. No one is saying that it wasn't a fair fight. Was it the right fight at the right time, that is the question. It has nothing to do with Liberal vs. Conservative. But just because you wrapped yourself up in the flag like it was some personal shield of armour it makes anyone who disagrees with you a French loving, pinko, Anti-American not worthy of living on your land or breathing your air.
Get over it Freeze. Tell me how a "Liberated Iraq will fit into the middle of Muslemland. Tell me how the Muslems will suddenly stop hating us and start loving us. Tell me how they will not grow more cynical the longer we are there. Tell me how tribes that have been at war for years will suddenly stop warring.
Meanwhile take the flag off and use it what it was intended for a free and honest shareing of ideas.
Oh in case you missed it Clinton, you know the blow job liberal guy, he and Tony Blair went around the UN in 1998. Only 5 years ago. That was before 9-11 and he didn't have this Patriotic Fever running thru the country as it is now. He didn't have Limbaugh and Fox on his side then. You Conservatives didn't want the bombing to continue. Using your own reasoning, if you did then maybe 9-11 would not have happened.

 

[dr. freeze]

doing a quick "bombing" is not really effective at getting rid of Hussein is it?

probably every conservative would have behind Clinton had he gone after Iraq like Bush has...especially in the context of 9-11 and possibility that WMD could be used on our soil purchased by ANY terror group from Hussein

you are now engaging in insinuation at what I or anyone else would think and you are dead wrong....

actually i think Gore woudda done the same thing here...he was once a hawk and i thikn 9-11 wouldda turned him back into it IF he was president....i know Lieberman would have done this and supported it and he wouldda been Veep....now as far as Kerry, Edwards, Dean and soem of those other schmucks -- i seriously doubt it -- they would have soiled their pants and who knwos where we woudl be

nothing wrong with wrapping yourself in the flag StevieD....that flag means a lot of things to a lot of us....might want to check into that

 

[Chanman]

StevieD- you bring a lot of this on yourself for you support of Clinton. Can you imagine what the Arab world , (you know how they treat their women), thought when the President had oral sex w/an intern and lied about it to the public. We must have looked like the Great Satan. You call him BJ king. Guess thats funny if it isn't your daughter or Chelsea. At least now you know N. Korea is saying "Holy Sh*t" That could be us. Don't think Iran is going to be taking any hostages in the present. At least those MotherF*ckers know there will be a price to pay for their terrorism. I respect your opinions, and am just trying to point out to you what I think are flaws. Nothing personal. Just seems like some people are never satisfied.