the problem

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Whose fault is this???

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080401184532.kxjxy7xo&show_article=1

Only 1 of 2 students graduate high school in US cities: study


Three out of 10 US public school students do not graduate from high school, and major city school districts only graduate one out of two students, according to a study released Tuesday.
In a report on graduation rates around the country, the EPE Research Center and the America Promise Alliance also showed that the high school graduation rate -- finishing 12 grades of school -- in big cities falls to as low as just 34.6 percent in Baltimore, Maryland, and barely over 40 percent for the troubled Ohio cities of Columbus and Cleveland.

And it said that black and native American student's have effectively a one-in-two chance of getting a high school diploma.

"Our analysis finds that graduating from high school in America's largest cities amounts, essentially, to a coin toss," the study said.

"Only about one-half (52 percent) of students in the principal school systems of the 50 largest cities complete high school with a diploma."

Based on 2003-2004 data, the report said that across the country the graduation average for public school students is 69.9 percent, with the best success rate in suburbs -- 74.9 percent -- and rural districts -- 73.2 percent.

Asian-Americans score the highest graduation rate, at 80 percent, with whites at 76.2 percent and Hispanics at 57.8 percent.

Women graduate at a much higher rate than men, 73.6 percent to 66.0 percent.

In the country's city schools, the study found that in urban areas generally, just 60.4 percent graduate, and in the principal school districts of the top 50 cities, barely half graduate.

Detroit, Michigan's main school district scored a graduation rate of 24.9 percent.

New York, the country's largest city, has a graduation rate for its main school district of 45.2 percent, and Los Angeles, the second largest, of 45.3 percent.

Only five of the principal school districts topped the national average.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Matt -Smurphy per high-lighted part--
Now where have I heard that before--

 

[Chadman]

No doubt the students and parents have to shoulder much of the blame. No doubt the thug inner city culture is a big part of the problem, drugs, gangs, no father at home, mothers having to work two jobs and still not making it.

But those same students and parents have to deal with much more difficult problems and issues, and a lack of money which shows up in classroom, teacher and technology issues, making them less probable to overcome those issues. I'd submit that if the high percentage of people not living in blighted areas were in that same situation, the numbers would probably be similar. No child left behind, a huge unfunded mandate started by this administration, has compounded the issue in many of these same areas...requiring money that would go for valuable education items be spent on administration and reporting.

Perhaps all the more reason to elect a President who has already tried to explain how it is actually partially the fault of those same people, someone who those people could get behind and think new thoughts and ideals. Seeing a black man as President, I would think would be pretty motivational to a kid teetering on the brink of a good/bad situation.

 

[The Sponge]

Lets see how Brad and Angelina Jolies kids make out. Lets see with these advantages DTB seems to always turn a blind eye to, lets see if it comes into play or they grow up as thugs.

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

Whose fault is this???

The liberal media? :shrug:

 

[UGA12]

The corrolation between money and education is very obvious, but what I have found is that the expectations put on students is equal while the ability to achieve the expectations is not. What I mean is that there are many students that could and would succeed if given the opportunity to persue their interest rather than being forced to take courses they have no intrest in and thus shut down. I realize that life is tough and you have to do things you dont like at times, but if it is our role to prepare these young people for life then we must allow them to find their craft and/or career. Unfortunantly it has become more about standardized tests and force feeding watered down standards down the throats of those that need to be learning a craft. It can all be summed up by saying NCLB sucks big fat donkey dick.

 

[Old School]

Education starts at home..

If you can't raise then not have them.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

No doubt the students and parents have to shoulder much of the blame. No doubt the thug inner city culture is a big part of the problem, drugs, gangs, no father at home, mothers having to work two jobs and still not making it.

But those same students and parents have to deal with much more difficult problems and issues, and a lack of money which shows up in classroom, teacher and technology issues, making them less probable to overcome those issues. I'd submit that if the high percentage of people not living in blighted areas were in that same situation, the numbers would probably be similar. No child left behind, a huge unfunded mandate started by this administration, has compounded the issue in many of these same areas...requiring money that would go for valuable education items be spent on administration and reporting.

Perhaps all the more reason to elect a President who has already tried to explain how it is actually partially the fault of those same people, someone who those people could get behind and think new thoughts and ideals. Seeing a black man as President, I would think would be pretty motivational to a kid teetering on the brink of a good/bad situation.

The kids I sympathize with are those in inner cities wanting to study and get ahead--but classes disrupted by those that don't. They are certainly at a disadvanantage as I assume the only teachers they get are those that can't get jobs elsewhere for most part. Maybe solution would be to have diff schools per grade ave where those that were just going through routine till 16 could disrupt all they wanted and those that wanted to study could do so in adaquate atmosphere.

 

[Cie]

My mother's family lived very comfortably in Cuba until she was 8. They had to drop everything and move to the US. Her parents, aunts, uncles and cousins all moved to NYC. There were doctors, lawyers, teachers, accountants and entreprenuers in the family. All adults were college educated. The early years were difficult. English had to be learned by most, professionals who were giving eye exams and writing briefs a month earlier were peeling shrimp, sweeping floors and cleaning toilets in order to get by. In the meantime, everyone cut back on luxuries. No one complained, they merely got the job done. My grandmother did not want to send my mom to public school because my mom had attended private schools in Cuba. So, the former stay-at-home mom, and wife of my succesful engineer grandfather learned how to sew and worked in a glorified sweat shop in brooklyn to earn the tuition.

With all of this going on, my mom and her cousins all grew up to be good and honest people. The adults pulled themselves out of the lower socio-economic class without taking any handouts or welfare, and all lived fruitful, prosperous lives in this country. Their children graduated high school, then college. Not a thug in the bunch.

Why can some families make sure that despite their economic situation, their kids are clothed, fed, taught values and properly educated while others can't? I'll tell you why.....laziness, selfishness, apathy, and the infantile desire for instant gratification.

 

[dawgball]

The book, Freakonomics by Steven Leavitt has a very good section on this. I would look up the chapters, but I listened to it on audiobook.

Leavitt is a highly celebrated economist who has a knack for looking at items from very different angles. I was highly impressed with the book, and I would recommend anyone who is interested in this particular topic of school performance to check it out... at least that section.

Warning: I'm not gifted with writing, so I may mangle his message here.

One minor aspect of the data that they reviewed showed that the school atmosphere had much less to do with performance than is usually purported. The main "evidence" of this was showing how the NCLB act effected the Chicago Publich Schools.

The test group was made up of all of the children who applied to move schools. Because of the flood of requests, they had to hold a lottery to see who could actually have their request granted. Of the entire group, there was very little difference between the kids that were moved and who were left in the less desirable school.

His conclusion was the "desire" to better their education was a more important factor than the school environment itself.

Now, I am no expert, and I am only trying to provide a tidbit of his findings just in case anyone is interested in picking up the book (or audiobook). I will not be able to defend any of this on my own, and I will not attempt to do so. this is due to the fact that I recognize that I am not on the level of most of you guys when it comes to "debates".

:wall:

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

My mother's family lived very comfortably in Cuba until she was 8. They had to drop everything and move to the US. Her parents, aunts, uncles and cousins all moved to NYC. There were doctors, lawyers, teachers, accountants and entreprenuers in the family. All adults were college educated. The early years were difficult. English had to be learned by most, professionals who were giving eye exams and writing briefs a month earlier were peeling shrimp, sweeping floors and cleaning toilets in order to get by. In the meantime, everyone cut back on luxuries. No one complained, they merely got the job done. My grandmother did not want to send my mom to public school because my mom had attended private schools in Cuba. So, the former stay-at-home mom, and wife of my succesful engineer grandfather learned how to sew and worked in a glorified sweat shop in brooklyn to earn the tuition.

With all of this going on, my mom and her cousins all grew up to be good and honest people. The adults pulled themselves out of the lower socio-economic class without taking any handouts or welfare, and all lived fruitful, prosperous lives in this country. Their children graduated high school, then college. Not a thug in the bunch.

Why can some families make sure that despite their economic situation, their kids are clothed, fed, taught values and properly educated while others can't? I'll tell you why.....laziness, selfishness, apathy, and the infantile desire for instant gratification.

Great Story Cie
Believe key is family values--my wife came here in 2004 (China)--with limited English--has friends /co-workers that stop by house from Bosnia-Cambodia-China-Ecuador --they all meet 3 days a week before work and go to WKU free classes--studing for GED and citizenship.
All have been here 5 years or less and speak-read and write english.
They all have one common denominator--they come from hard working family backrounds--they have opportunities here they did not have in their countries--and they take advantage of all that are available. If someone tells them they can't do something--they look at it as a challenge--not an excuse.
Most never had credit cards available in their country I and found their view toward them quite interesting. All are very thrifty shoppers and it is absolute taboo for them to pay more for an item than original price (interest) and never carry a monthly balance.

 

[escarzamd]

My mother's family lived very comfortably in Cuba until she was 8. They had to drop everything and move to the US. Her parents, aunts, uncles and cousins all moved to NYC. There were doctors, lawyers, teachers, accountants and entreprenuers in the family. All adults were college educated. The early years were difficult. English had to be learned by most, professionals who were giving eye exams and writing briefs a month earlier were peeling shrimp, sweeping floors and cleaning toilets in order to get by. In the meantime, everyone cut back on luxuries. No one complained, they merely got the job done. My grandmother did not want to send my mom to public school because my mom had attended private schools in Cuba. So, the former stay-at-home mom, and wife of my succesful engineer grandfather learned how to sew and worked in a glorified sweat shop in brooklyn to earn the tuition.

With all of this going on, my mom and her cousins all grew up to be good and honest people. The adults pulled themselves out of the lower socio-economic class without taking any handouts or welfare, and all lived fruitful, prosperous lives in this country. Their children graduated high school, then college. Not a thug in the bunch.

Why can some families make sure that despite their economic situation, their kids are clothed, fed, taught values and properly educated while others can't? I'll tell you why.....laziness, selfishness, apathy, and the infantile desire for instant gratification.

That's fantastic insight, thanks.

Tangential story here in Rock Vegas. Big stink on the mayor by the populace over truancy. During the election 3yrs go, he relentlessly stumped education reform locally.

Hizzoner's emphasis was on truancy, which was a well-documented problem and reasonably seen as a cause of both poor performance and, by extrapolation, deviant behaviors (crime, drug use, teen pregancy/disease, etc).......makes sense, right?

Over the last month, its come to a head. As of Tuesday, The Mayor started ticketing kids who skip class.......both those who don't show up at all and those who stay on school grounds..... b/c his initial efforts to prevent truancy have failed (doubling security, pressuring school principals to act by not referring first-time offenders to established counseling programs, holding kids back) miserably. Lately there have been some well-publicized and downright gruesome fights on several high-school campuses between students of all ilk in the middle of the damn day! One the worst was a a dozen girls! The school board blocked this ticketing of truants for two months under the umbrella of it affecting federal funding under No Child Left Behind......literacy, truancy, and graduation rates be damned.

He has also had to make a plea to the state education board to allow transparency in student's attendance as method to correct the problem after being blocked at every turn by the local school board. His stated purpose is to retrospectively and concurrently force repeat offenders into the counseling programs already in place. Vox populi is against him because they scream "right to privacy" and "civil rights violations" over the info. Seriously. These freakin' parents bitchin' through the board about an attempt to solve one problem in a broke-azz education system. I already pay 3%/annum in property taxes for this crap b/c they insist on busing their kids all over hell's half-acre (diesel ain't cheap!) in lieu of "vouchers," which makes no sense because if you have to bus 'em everywhere to begin with, then how the hell is voucher gonna help except to increase my property tax again? Add the fact that the entire West Side RPD day-shift is patrolling the school grounds now to hand out worthless freakin' paper to brats that will only serve to bury the Circuit Court clerks while not even putting a ripple in the sea of problems local schools already posess. I took care of a guy Tuesday at lunchtime that fought off a home invasion going home to pick up his checkbook so he could sneak over to ComEd and pay his electric bill in the nick of time. Got two holes in his right leg and a gun butt mark on his forehead for his effort. Maybe it happened b/c the cops were at the schools at the behest of the mayor, maybe not:shrug: Doesn't matter to me.

Cie's story will help to tie this rambling rant of mine into a nice neat package. Integrity, duty, respect, and sacrifice cannot be generally learned anymore by osmosis. What we all took for granted growing up are traits more than likely learned by example. Good for us, but those still attempting to teach this by example are being drowned out by the examples set forth by the indifferent, the apathetic, the insouciant. Sad state of affairs, but this particular government intrusion seemed unavoidable.

Hope everone is well........D:SIB C

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

Dawg: I love that book, thanks for bringing up that point.

For what it's worth, a diddy from a book I read called "How Doctor's Think" might apply here. When talking about what makes doctors better than others, the author quoted a saying that goes "The most important part of caring for the patient is caring for the patient". I think that saying rings true in the world of education. The best teachers I ever had were the ones that gave a crap about me (when I could have cared less). I think our educational system is broken and that blaming it on the home and the parents is a bit of a cop-out.

I feel like we see statistics like these and we look for excuses or reasons to justify the poor performance of inner city students. It's time that we start putting the blame on the system and holding the schools accountable. If kids don't goto school, let's find a social economic solution (ie., throw the truants in Juvie for a week). If we can't get good teachers to goto these crappy areas, lets get funding in place that will attract teachers with financial incentives.

We're well on our way to being the former superpower of the world, and our low concern for the education of our citizens will be a MAJOR driving force behind the descent. Arrogance is going to be our end....just like it was for the British and every other former world leader.

 

[escarzamd]

That makes alot of sense to me. Doesn't seem to be a huge mental leap to set up a pay for performance system. Unionizing teachers was a huge mistake. They still don't get paid enough and it breeds complacency. Strangely enough, Chicago is at the tip of that spear.

Two interesting articles.....

http://thehiddencostsoftenure.com/stories/?prcss=display&id=266539

http://www.hoover.org/publications/ednext/3354986.html