This is why mid-majors should be barred from the tourney

Nick Douglas

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We are now exactly two games from utter embarassment. The realistic possiblity exists that George f'n Mason will be crowned the 2005-2006 NCAA Men's Basketball Champion.

This should be seen as a wake-up call to eliminate mid-major conferences from the NCAA tournament. I don't know exactly where the line would be drawn on conference admission to The Dance. People who know a heck of a lot about college hoops would be able to make that decision better than I would. What I do know, however, is that if George Mason wins the whole enchilada it will be a dark day for college basketball.

It's been obvious for some time that the NCAA tournament is about money rather than legitimate athletic competition, so we should have seen this coming. When you design something as a legitimate athletic competition, you require entrants to pass a certain criteria before they are allowed entry to the elite level. When you design something for money, you turn it into a game of chance where any meathead can win $1,000,000 by shouting, "No Deal!" to Howie Mandel.

The "Deal or No Deal" analogy is actually quite relevant here. I, along with millions of others, love that show because it has absolutely no barrier for entry. You don't have to answer a question correctly or show off some archaic academic knowledge. You simply get picked from the crowd and you're in the money.

The NCAA tournament is in a similar state. You can play a schedule where your only two games against power conferences are decisive losses to non-tournament teams and you're in the money.

People are giving credit to George Mason for beating the alleged powerhouses of college basketball. Maybe they deserve it. I don't know. I don't know because I know how meaningless the college basketball regular season is so I barely follow it. So my greatest exposure to George Mason has been watching them beat teams that looked hopelessly mediocre not only in the games they lost in the NCAAs, but also in other NCAA tournament wins.

It is true that judging teams based on a game or two is unfair, but that's the whole point, isn't it? This middling basketball program from Fairfax could be crowned our National Champion by having a lucky six game run. They didn't have to prove their worth against elite competition all year. They were simply able to beat up on the dredges of Division I college hoops and get awarded a place in the money by the NCAA tournament selection committee.

Does anyone on the selection committee (or any other college basketball fan, for that matter) think that George Mason could have even posted a .500 conference record in the Big East? Or the Pac-10? Or the Big 10 Or even the lowly Big 12? Of course not. Had George Mason been forced to play the kind of schedule that teams like USC, Cincinnatti and Florida State played, they would have been an afterthought. Another big conference stepping stone for elite teams like Boston College, Washington and Pittsburgh.

But no, that's not how it goes in college basketball. In college basketball, everyone gets a shot at the million dollar case. Everyone, no matter how average they prove themselves to be during the regular season, is give a shot at the championship if March is the month of their lives.

As often happens, I probably look like the crumudgeon on all of this. Or the elitist, or snob or whatever word shortsighted people want to use to describe it. Everyone in the mainstream media seems to love the George Mason. It's historic (even though nobody will care 100 years from now) and they've shocked the world (even though 99.5% of the population neither knows nor cares). It's a watershed event that proves the unpredictability (and therefore, greatness?) of March Madness.

Bah, humbug, I say. Give me the best athletes and the best coaches who play the best other teams all year. Give me the teams who prove their worth by navigating three grueling months of high profile games and hostile arenas.

Even better, give me a sport like baseball, where only the best play for the championship and teams prove they belong by conquering great teams all season long.

GEORGE MASON +610 (Pinnacle) for the NCAA Championship 100/610
 

bjfinste

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My friends on the west coast told me that cocaine was prominent out there, but this is the first time I've ever seen someone post when on it. Nice work, Nick!!
 

yak merchant

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That's a great idea, matter of fact, let's just not have a tournament and let's just let just set up a BCS type system run by Dick Vitale, and Duke can win it every year. Oh wait Duke is not in the all powerful Big East. Your a genius.
 

GFarrow84

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i disagree with pretty much everything you just said, i'll leave it at that.
 

gecko

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bryanz said:
He's just being sarcastic, he can't be serious.


I think you hit the nail right on the head.

Just think about it. As the Patriots (New England, that is) did when it won the SB right after 9/11, wouldn't it be great if these Patriots out of Fairfax, VA achieved the Pinnacle in college hoops? It would make Villanova's win in '85 or Arizona's dance victory as a lower seed pale in comparison.

Pretty amazing accomplishment to reach the Final Four for a CAA program (and a rather new one at that) whose previous claim to fame was that it was once headed up by former Lakers coach Paul Westhead.


GO MASON!!!
:Yep:
 

Nick Douglas

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I was being completely serious. This endorsement of luck over hard work and craft is part of human nature, but not a good part.

That's why I don't play the lottery. If I make $10 million, I want it to be because I mastered a craft over a long period of hard work. Not because I got lucky one day. I'd rather be The Unforgettables than George Mason any day.
 

Nick Douglas

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By the way, nobody answered the legitimate question I posed in the article: Does anyone think that George Mason (with their only two major conference regular season games being losses to Miss. St. and Wake) could have even hit .500 in a major conference this year?
 

maverick2112

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Nick Douglas said:
I was being completely serious. This endorsement of luck over hard work and craft is part of human nature, but not a good part.

That's why I don't play the lottery. If I make $10 million, I want it to be because I mastered a craft over a long period of hard work. Not because I got lucky one day. I'd rather be The Unforgettables than George Mason any day.

Can I be George Mason with the 10 million???

On second thought give me the 10 million and call me anything you want........ :mj07:
 

bjfinste

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Nick Douglas said:
By the way, nobody answered the legitimate question I posed in the article: Does anyone think that George Mason (with their only two major conference regular season games being losses to Miss. St. and Wake) could have even hit .500 in a major conference this year?

As someone who follows CBB pretty closely, I can tell you that yes, I think they would hit .500+ in every major conference. It's all about home court in college hoops. You know that.

Not that I'd expect you to say anything else. I mean, how much does it suck to see a "nobody" actually earn their way through the tourney to earn a shot at the crown instead of backing into a shared national title via agenda-driven polls? Not that I don't think USC wouldn't have smacked LSU by 20+ in 2003, because they would have and were by far the best team in the country; but actually winning it, you know, ON THE COURT... that's gotta seem like a whole other phenomenon.
 

Nick Douglas

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bj,

Reasonable people can disagree, my man. I'll leave it to people who watch college hoops to hypothesize whether they would hit .500 in a major conference. Like I said, it seems unlikely based on their 0-2 regular season record (including one home game and no tournament teams).

As far as earning the football national championship, in my view it has always been a mythical national championship. I'd like to see other people recognize USC as the best, but as long as we win at least a share of the conference championship, win our bowl game and can reasonably say that we are better than the other teams who accomplish the same (such as in 2002 ::cough::kosar::cough::, 2003 and 2004), then I feel we've done as much as we can.

I just dislike the idea of tossing everyone in a hat for a short term tournament and proclaiming the winner champion for the entire season. Let me give you an analogy of what I'm talking about.

In English Football, there are two major championships. One is the Premier League championship and one is the Football Association (FA) Cup championship.

The FA Cup is open to all clubs in the English football association. No matter what division, no matter how big or small you are; you can win the FA Cup every year. It is a one-and-done tournament where small teams shock the giants every year somewhere along the way. It gives hope to every small club that they can hit a lucky streak and either advance very far or even pull off the unthinkable and win the whole thing.

The Premier League is comprised of the 20 best teams in English football. To gain entry to the Premier League, you have to finish in the top 3 of a lower league. In addition, the lowest three teams in the Premier League are relegated to a lower league the next year.

The Premier League championship is awarded based on regular season performance only. You get a home and away match against every other team in the premier league, and the team with the most points (best record) after those 38 games is the champion. No playoffs to allow runners-up another shot. No second chances if you have a monthlong stretch of stinkers early in the season. It requires excellence from start to finish.

Guess which championship is more highly regarded? The Premier League Championship is because if you show fans the two alternatives of excellence vs. luck, fans are going to gravitate towards excellence in the end.

In NCAA basketball, all we have is luck. You get on a lucky run for the month of March and you're the best. That's it.

Since allowing all NCAA teams to play a home-and-home with one another is impossible, I'd rather see only the best conferences allowed entry into the year-end tournament. There could be secondary and tertiary tournaments for mid-major conferences as well.

If your conference representatives were to stink up the major year-end tournament, then you could get relegated to a secondary tournament the next year. The conference of the winning team and/or the conference(s) that perform best in the previous year's secondary and tertiary tournaments could then be elevated into a higher level the next year as well.

Since college basketball schedules are so heavily focused on the conference season, this would ensure that only teams who play a great lineup of regular season foes (i.e., conference foes) would be allowed to compete for the highest level championship. No caste system based on school revenues or TV contracts like the BCS. Just a fair system that requires teams to build great programs before they can be rewarded with the priviledge of competing for the top prize in the game.

I realize that all of this is purely a dream. There is no possibility that anything like this will ever happen because, as I said earlier, human nature dictates that most people seem to prefer luck to excellence.

I just have to put these thoughts out there in support of the Big Guy. Everyone seems to love the Underdog. And ya know, it's a great story when Underdogs truly prove that they legitimately belong with the Big Guys. The peoplem is that winning a few games in a row to end your season doesn't prove sh*t.
 
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Clem D

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Without the small conferences this tourney would not be anywhere near as fun to watch. Now your saying that even after George Mason proved not only diid they belong, but they had more heart and desire that UNC and UConn we should have kept them out?

Possibly the dumbest thing said on this bored.



EVER
 

bjfinste

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ND- When I made my post, I was hoping it wasn't too low of a blow, so I'm glad to see that you didn't take it as such (although I will go on record as saying that I think Ohio State really WAS the best team in 02, but that's a whole other topic).

The soccer analogy is solid. Even though I despise the game as a whole, I will admit that I love the way it's set up in Europe. But like you acknowledge, there is no way that system would fly in the US for college hoops. Home court is just such a MASSIVE advantage -- whether you are Duke or George Mason or even a team like Northwestern -- that the teams that get the home-court games are the teams that will have the best records.

If the NCAA were to follow your model, I assume you would only want, say, 16 teams? Or else maybe 24 with byes? Even that would be extreme. A 12-team tourney with the top four seeds getting first-round byes would probably, in most years, suffice.

The soccer-based model you propose would, if I'm not mistaken, likely remove the Big 10 this year in favor of the Missouri Valley. I may be grasping what you are saying wrong, but that's how I read it. So next year, the OSU team with Odens and all those returnees -- a likely top five preseason team, I would think -- wouldn't have a shot at the big tourney.

Like you said, human nature leads people to root for the underdog, which is why the first two days are always the most exciting (if not the best-played).

And while I'm here... I know you're a Wisconsin boy... how about that 1-0 triple OT win by my alma mater over Cornell to advance to the Frozen Four tonight?
 

Clem D

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Bj
You said..

If the NCAA were to follow your model, I assume you would only want, say, 16 teams? Or else maybe 24 with byes? Even that would be extreme. A 12-team tourney with the top four seeds getting first-round byes would probably, in most years, suffice.



If the Ncaa followed that model they would ruin possibly the best couple of weeks in sport
 

Nick Douglas

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Clem,

Be careful what you say, buddy. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

And if anyone considers the NCAA tournament the best couple weeks in sports, that's pathetic. Somewhere in the definition of the word, "best," quality has to come in. I could watch a weekend of NBDL games and get better quality than this.

BJ,

I'd say let 32 or 64 teams in. I haven't put that much thought into it. I think there are 32 conferences, right? So how about four classes of 8 conferences each? You take 64 (or 32) teams from each class of conferences and let them go at it. Best 8 (or 4) from each conference goes, with the conference being allowed to pick their best 8 (or 4). (I know this is unfair to large conferences like the Big East. To that I say, GOOD.)

I'd say the bottom two get knocked out of each class. That means that the conference of the champ from a lower class and the conference that posts the best overall record (weighted towards late round wins, of course) goes up a class each year.

You mention the Oden problem. I say, screw 'em. No plan is ever going to be perfect. If a prized recruit happens to choose a school from a conference that gets relegated, then that's the recruit's problem. What I like about this is that it would level the recruiting plane. If the Big Ten gets relegated and the MVC moves up, surely some recruits would ditch the Big Ten and go to the MVC.

I will admit that coaches would hate this idea from a recruiting standpoint. It could lead to some degree of recruiting chaos.

The last point I have to make here is that lower class championships would still mean something. I mean, even the NIT means something to the teams that win it. And remember that by winning a lower class championship a team would have given themselves a shot at a higher class championship next season.

Also, glad to hear about Wisky. I barely follow the Badgers any more but they used to be great when I was a kid back in Wisconsin.
 

Clem D

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Nick you said it best yourself..

People are giving credit to George Mason for beating the alleged powerhouses of college basketball. Maybe they deserve it. I don't know. I don't know because I know how meaningless the college basketball regular season is so I barely follow it. So my greatest exposure to George Mason has been watching them beat teams that looked hopelessly mediocre not only in the games they lost in the NCAAs, but also in other NCAA tournament wins.


You don't know.

This was not a personal attack on you. It just makes nosense that someone who admittingly has no clue about regular season college basketball would say that this tourney needs to be revamped.

Maybe ask people who watch the sport before you try to change it.

As to your statement that Mason would not go 500 in the big conferences, I could not disagree more.
Mason
Hofstra
5 or 6 teams in the mvc would all go 500 or better in:
Big East
Shit 12 (Kansas for gods sake) Oklahoma)
Big 10
Pac 10
and Sec

The thing you would eliminate from the tourney by getting rid of the mid majors is 90% of the emotion and heart.

Ask Kansas the last two years.

If you still feel as an admitted non college hoops fan that your idea is a good one and than you must be right.

After all I watch no college hoops at all.

Nothing personal.
 

Buckman

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So much for the land of opportunity where anything can happen to anybody at anytime. :shrug:

And this luck thing is interesting. Thomas Jefferson was a firm believer in luck he once said, "I believe in luck and the harder I work the more I have of it." Isn't luck where hard work and opportunity come together? :scared

Yes I can see the point we should tell our kids, "Look you a good kid but your not big and powerful so we're not going to give you a chance, sorry." :sadwave:

I like the idea have Dicky V. and Digger pick 4 teams (Coach K and Bobby Knight get automatic bids, baby) and call it the big and powerful NCAA tourney. There would be two at-large. Let them play a round robin against each other for a month (let's call it March Madness) and at the end of the month the the teams with the two best records play to the title.

One of the reason I have to agree with Nick is I got my ass kicked betting against these teams that don't deserve to be here. So I say toss'em. I would rather lose to a big and powerful team because it doesn't hurt as much.

And this isn't England it's the United States of America I wish more people would realize it. In more things than just sports (I'm waving a flag now).

Wow this is the most I've ever written. I go now.

Take care

Bucky
 
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pt1gard

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i guess all the #1s weren't really #1s or else this is biggest set of coincidence since the harmonic convergence or that Bush found the WMD while searching a Where's Waldo

then again, could be the Cardiff Giant hoax
 

neverteaseit

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Yea they don't belong here. neither did wichita state, bradley. Valpo or Butler a few years back.
I am sure we need more Air forces and Seton Halls in the tourney. Like they deserved to be there. MMMM thats right they are from major conferences like the Suck me East and Wack it West. Hell by what your saying they should have let all the Acc and Suck east teams in.

And yes they would have a shot at a .500 season in a major conference. You must be really lost on college basketball. Because non of the big boys will rarely play on a mid majors homecourt. Why? Because they are afraid of being beat is why. You can pick any big ole conference team in the nation and send them on the road to play top teams in the horizon league and MVC and watch what happens. They will be leaving with a big ole L stamped to there resume. But they won't because they are afraid of that possibility. plus they loose money. But besides the money it is the threat of losing that scares them the most. Boy do mid-majors suck and just ruin college basketball. booooohoooooo cry me a river.

Really pretty stupid statement but what else is expected.

You must be one of the jackasses that lives in Indiana and works for the high school association who recommended class basketball. What a shame that was.

Long live the Milan's of the world.

And let me get this straight you don't play the lottery because you feel you need to earn everything in life. So you have sweated your ass off for everything you have? Somehow I doubt that. This threads makes about as much sense as to watching the anna nicole show.
 
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Wilson

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Nick Douglas said:
I was being completely serious. This endorsement of luck over hard work and craft is part of human nature, but not a good part.

That's why I don't play the lottery. If I make $10 million, I want it to be because I mastered a craft over a long period of hard work. Not because I got lucky one day. I'd rather be The Unforgettables than George Mason any day.


To quote my good friend KOD...

Your just stupid.
 
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