To add insult to injury...

[Equity Trader]

With the dramatic sweep by Republicans to take control at all levels of government last Tuesday, the Democratic pundits are airing their excuses and fingering their faults..

Terry McAuliffe took no time in pointing out that the win was mainly tactical and not ideological...One can only expect such a move on his part,he's trying to save his job and brings on more floundering rhetoric on what is really wrong with their party.Sure a certain part was tactical,and that was his fault they lost,since his tactical fight was targeted towards Florida and Gov Bush...Karl Rove became a political genius,but the real issue was based on the fact that Democrats lacked vision and were nothing more than obstructionists from the beginning of this president's term....They just became a party have whiners....

Clinton's success was being able to ride on issues that were introduced by Republicans and made it work in favor of his party,but most important, was his ability to move the Democrats more central or moderate,where the country is clearly today.

The tragic event of 9/11 changed the way people viewed their vulnerability that many of us took for granted..This was probably the most important issue and the president stood his ground and rightfully so...The Republican strategists knew they had a solid agenda and geared their upcoming election on this one issue alone....

When Bush introduced his program on Homeland Security,the Democrats were clearly running defense for the protection of the unions,their most loyal voting base..It was here they (Democrats)played and apparently became obstructionists and the Republicans cleverly ran with the view that Democrats were not strong on Homeland Security and was only interested in protecting their labor vote by bellying into these special interest groups...The other area that thwarted their efforts was in the Iraq situation and wanted the guided message to be handled by the United Nations and this did not sit well with the public majority,since 11 years went by where Saddam just snubbed his nose and nobody took control and side stepped the whole issue....Clinton's agenda was never really strong on International affairs on security measures and maintain his popularity on the home front on the economy.This kept his popularity high and any effort to move into a global skirmish would have lowered his popularity...Some of his attempts to offset military action overseas became complete blunders,so he took the high ground and ignored the situation and thus the global terror network spawned to a point that now has become a real threat and will be for years to come..Liberals on a whole are dovenicks and any military action whether needed or not is really outside of their expertise and time for talk/negotiations is not what a terrorism outfit could ever be brought to understand....

During wartime,or periods of military action the United States has always played by the rules of the Gevena Convention protocols and respect the field of combat...Terrorism isn't guided by any concept other than destruction and mayhem regardless of the rational,like if there is ever any rational ideology in war or just plain killing of innocent humans..It is here where we must take the battle to their level and think like they do and forget the round table dialogs that have no meaning and will never achieve the positive outcome.....Time is now to kick a-s-s and take no prisoners and the liberal side has a very difficult time with this and would just as soon look the other way and hope it goes away....Sorry, it will never happen...

Now take the add insult to injury and you have the Democrats scrambling for a new house leader.....Geez,they just don't get it...Up for election in their caucus they have probably what appears to be a sure thing with Nancy Pelosi.....This will by all means split a divided party even more so and her nomination brings in an individual that is so far to the left,that if the her ideology even has a hint of being mainstream, we may as well find another planet,because sure as hell morality and family values will all but disappear and have no meaning..

Nancy Pelosi is an extreme far leftwing liberal that doesn't even match the likes of Kennedy and Hillary Clinton and hails out of the San Francisco area,which we all know what that is about...There is no doubt that she's probably very intelligent and is up to the job and is probably a wonderful mother of 5 children,but her views where this country is,is far from the real center and will never gain muster outside of far left thinking California.She approves gay rights marriage and that is the one area the rest of the country,maybe with exception of Vermont is not buying into this crazy notion and will never happen....Higher taxes and social programs that will most certainly move us into a socialistic governing body that starts from the top down rather what we have now,"We the People" will all be history.

Democrats need to stay in the center and that goes for Republicans as well....To bring in a Nacy Pelosi that is firmly planted in the far left is asking for a further decline and they (Democrats)will be digging a hole so deep they will never be able to regain any majority for quite sometime....


Oh well, as a moderate conservative bring her on,it will only energize the Republican base and send moderate Democrats over in droves...


Have a good day.....

ET

 

[ferdville]

Very well said - Pelosi isn't even a big name in California. I doubt if more than 25% of California voters outside S.F. know anything about her. She is way off to the socialist left wing of the demos. Her story won't play very well outside of California and New York.

 

[wondo]

With all due repsect, President Bush and the Republicans may have never been in this position if not for the tragic events of 9/11. I am all for having a charismatic leader, but to criticize Clinton's foreign policy is takign a rather ethnocentric view of the world. The rest of our allies and the European nations balk at what Bush says, and we were lucky to have someone there who could negotiate a 15-15 UN vote. I would lay my savings on the fact that these countries were not voting on our President's verbal arguments were.

I must admit that I know very little about Pelosi, but I would have to say that the trend towards the Republican swing is very much a consequence of the terrorist attack of 9/11. Without that, I don't think that Bush would be regarded as a very able President.

At the same time, I realize the arguement that, 'if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.' So there is something to be said about that.

God bless all of those that have defended our country, and continue to do so. But just because we can do something, doesn't mean that it is the correct thing to do. Along those lines, just because 'you' can force religion into the workplace and federal government, doesn't mean that it is right. No matter of one's religious convictions -- in fact I do have strong convictions, I don't agree with the likes of Ashcroft to ensure that religion is an integral part in work and government.

Anyway, this has strayed from your original topic. But I do agree that the Democratic party needs a strong platform and some sort of conviction to ride. I don't agree with what the Republican's have brought to the table, but at the same time, I do not agree with the lack of leadership and issues that the Democrats throw on the table.

Doesn't there seem to be an incredible middle ground where the far right meets the far left? I mean, you look at the ideas that some conservatives throw out there and they virtually go against the idea of 'less government' and decide it is their perogative to legislate against personal freedoms because they assume that what they believe in is correct. It's unfortunate that some of the Libertarians and other 3rd parties are wackos because without hidden adjendas, it almost seems as if they have a clearer idea of what people might want.

 

[Blitz]

Equity Trader, Outstanding Post!!

Let them make that left wing, liberal, wacko the new minority leader, it will just reinforce how out of touch the Democratic Party is!!

 

[AR182]

Equity Trader,

I agree with Ferdville, very well said.I also think that the Dems don't get it & don't have their hand on the pulse on how Americans are thinking. Since 9/11, Liberalism is passe & by putting Pelosi in charge the Dems have no chance to succeed. We may also see defections from the Dems. Bush was smart,his hand picked people that ran for the various seats in Congress were on the moderate side. He knew that very consevative politicians would cause as much of a problem for the Reps than the liberals cause for the Dems.For instance he chose Sinnunu(spelling?) to run in the primary against the conservative Smith in New Hampshire.Coleman in Minn. & Dole on So. Carolina are both moderate republicans.He is also talking about helping the seniors with prescriptiom coverage.

The American people want to see action taken against terrorism & the states that promote it. It is important for everyone to realize that to fight this war all proper "codes of conduct" must be thrown out. This is a street fight, where no rules apply.

Although I think the UN is completely worthless & that it was unnecessary for Bush to go to the UN, most of the polls that I saw stated that the public was more comfortable with Bush going to the UN to take on Iraq.

Equity Trader, what is a moderate conservative / Never heard that term?

 

[wondo]

How do you see the UN to be worthless?

Aren't these the same 'type' people as us who have had to fight terrorism on their own soil for decades? Isn't there something to be said for the majority of the western europeans to be laughing at the way that America has reacted to a terrorist attack?

How many freaking Americans could have told you which countries were predominantly muslim, and what is the different between muslim and moslim, and what the hell does what in the middle east. But now we have the answer for world peace and the end of terrorism within 12 months?

Come on now, blowing up the world isn't the solution.

Everyone in Iran and Iraq aren't Muslim. Everyone in Afghanistan aren't al-quaida, etc., etc. Let's have some idea of how we fit into the world, although powerful, our country and our religious and ethnic breakdowns are quite in the minority.

This said, I am a white middle-upper class male. So wtf.

 

[AR182]

Wondo,

The UN is worthless because Saddam has snubbed his nose at the UN sanctions that were impossed on him after losing the Gulf War. He signed an agreement to dismantle his weapons of mass destruction & to treat his people better. He has done neither. He still has his weapons & continuely treats his people like shit. The UN has repeatedly overlooked this. They also ignored the atrocities that went on in Bosnia. Clinton along with NATO went into Bosnia to help alleviate the mass slaughter there, not the UN. All the UN does is hold meetings, take in Broadway Shows,& eat in the finest restaurants in NY. They couldn't care less that NY has suffered financial losses since 9/11 to the tune of $95 billion & 146,000 jobs.But all these delegates do take advantage of the system. They couldn't care less or they would pay NYC the millions of dollars in unpaid fines that they owe. Yes they are worthless.

Do you really care that the Europeans are laughing at us. I don't. They have no credibility in these matters. See WW2 & Bosnia.

Iraq & al-qaeda do not understand diplomacy. We have tried. The only way to deal with them is militarily.

By the way I voted for Gore. But 9/11 changed my thinking & am glad that Bush is the president.

 

[ferdville]

If the majority of Europeans started thinking the way we did, I would be quite concerned. Who cares what they think of the United States? What can they point to that shows the great strides they are making for humanity? The Eurodollar?

 

[Blitz]

By the way I voted for Gore. But 9/11 changed my thinking & am glad that Bush is the president.

Praise the Lord, you have been SAVED my son!!!

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

I love the people who act like we would be speaking Muslim right now if Gore were President. I don't really have any problems with Bush now save for the fact that we've been saying that we were going to attack Iraq for about 8 months now. Do it or don't do it, but it's like he's hoping for live combat during his election runs.

I could care less what anybody outside of the Brits have to say about our actions. Europe has long lost any real political power due to the fact that they haven't invested enough in their military or their economy to matter on the world stage. They have made Europe unified over the last 20-25 years, but the reason that there has been no major military conflicts in the European states is due to the fact that it's because we won't allow it. It's not because they've made a noble choice.

We are the first world power in history to not try and take over other's lands for our gain. If the French, Germans, Russians had our power they would use it to their benefit and they have done so historically.

To protect our homeland in times like this, we have to act proactively and if those actions take place on somebody else's soul, so be it.

 

[djv]

It was the proper vote at this time. No excuse now, Bush has all the power he needs. He does the right job he get 4 more years. If not throw-em out next election. Its really very simple. The other good news we threw Harvey Pitt out the door. Who was the dumb ass that apponted him in the first place.

 

[Skinar]

I think the Dems lost simply because they didn't have the balls to run on the right issues. Pelosi will be a debacle for that party but I consider that no loss now, the Dems have been headless since Clinton retired.

I'm not a Rep or Dem, more Libertarian than anything. Bush's tax cut would be an easy issues to campaign against, it clearly puts a LOT of money in the pockets of the rich and does very little if anything for the middle class and the poor. The Rep's history on environmental issues is abysmal, if I were a Dem I would make hay on that one.

On the Foreign front, who the hell cares what happens in Iraq? Is there one poster here who would sacrifice his son or daughter for that war? I wouldn't. Screw the UN as well. We should be making more deals with Russia, their only concern in Iraq is the money they have invested in the oil business.

And WHY do we send so much money to Israel? Israelis and Palestinians NEVER have gotten along and never will get along. I don't care about the Palestinians either but I can't see getting any more of our soldiers blown up for either side. Just contain the whole mess.

Oh yeah, Sept 11th. That was definitely a smack upside the collective US head by some determined and fanatical Muslims. But we'll never really be able to protect ourselves from people like that as long as we insist on searching 80 year old white haired grandmothers at the airports at the same rate as middle eastern looking males. It's just a fact. For those who look middle eastern and are males and aren't terrorists - get over it.

But it doesn't really matter whether the Dems or Reps are in control, the same thing will continue to happen that has always happened for the past 200 years. The rich will get richer, the poor will complain. The powerful will run the country. Government will get bigger. Society will continue to degrade, education will become indoctrination, and sooner or later we'll run out of resources to maintain our lavish lifestyles.

Yep, America may have another 100 years or so left in her but I think that's about it. It doesn't matter to me since I won't be around then. None of this political hogwash amounts to a hill of beans, it's merely a charade to entertain the groundlings (us) and give us a sense that we really do have some say in what happens - but we don't. The plan has been laid out for over a century and will come to fruition within a century, the funny thing is that so very few will even notice.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

I am going to have to agree 100%with those that say without 9-11, Bush and Republicans would not be where they are now. The real shame is it took a tragedy like this on our soil to get manys attention.
Seems they cared less when Clinton let them drag our soldiers through the street in Samoli and set them on fire with no recouse. Typical F---it,
it doesn't concern me attitude. Had it been California instead of New York you would see attitudes change there as well.
---and the tax breaks for rich vs poor issue.Just how cluless are people.Really? How do you give tax rebates or cut taxes of the poor when 22% of population pay no taxes.Sheez!!!!!!
Who provides jobs-health benefits and retirement.It sure is not the poor,and whose taxes pay for the poors welfare benefits?
For many years it use to be the 80/20 rule.80% paid taxes to carry the other 20%. That line has moved to about 70/30. Where does it end. If you don't like big business or taxes the top 10% pay let me ask you this.Suppose they get tired of all this bullshit,take their money and business to another country how could this country exist.
There are many productive happenings in China this week with favorable outlooks to westerners and you are going to see a sleeping giant awake.When big businesses move there it will be those that bitch about breaks for businesses that will do the whining about companies moving their business east. You can bank on it.

 

[dawgball]

I agree completely with DTB here. The same people that scream for more taxing of the rich/big businesses are teh same people that will scream when that same big business starts a plant in Mexico, Korea, etc.

The last company I worked for was a famil-owned company started in the early 60s and had greatly prospered since. They employ about 8% of my hometown's population with 7 plants there. Because of the continued taxing of their business and continued pressure from company's outside the US with greatly reduced cost, they have started plants in Mexico, Korea, and Ireland in the past 7 years. Luckily, they are very committed to NEVER cut a person without reason. During lean times, a press operator may be mowing the yards or serving in the lunch line, but they will not be cut out of a job.

The problem is because of the increased taxes and pressures from Unions (this company, IMO, would close its doors and take its losses if the workers Unionized), more and more jobs are going out of the country. They are not letting anyone go, but they are also not replacing people that leave.

A flat-tax rate is the ONLY right way to go. I don't see how anything else can be justified. If you make $18,000/year then you pay $3600 in taxes. If you make $250,000/year then you pay $50,000 in taxes. Obviously, the percentage could be different than the 20% that I used, but the theory is the same.

 

[djv]

DTB you got into a area I can comment on. I worked for a large very large company till I recently retired. You mention above taking there business to other countries. Well mind started 20 years ago. Were in China/Korea/Malaysia/Thailand/Mexico. Where ever you can get people to work for little or nothing. Sure it's a American company. But hey it's about making money. Has nothing to do about America. I been along the Mexico border just acrosse from Texas/Arizona. American business all over the place. Tons and tons of jobs. But because pay is so low. Many Mexican still try everyday to come acrosse border. They make more working in farmers fields this side of border then they get payed by those big business. Our Government gives those big companies big incentives for putting those plants in Mexico. The idea was given jobs at home/Mexico they will stay there. But if you pay so little there just going to keep coming here. As for much of what else you said I agree. I have become a independent over last 15/20 years or so. My reason was cant find eiher party thinking much differant the the other once the paint dries. As for taxes can't say im rich. A solid middle classe. This tax cut did little for me. We should try to get it down the scale father. After all that 40/50 percent of us in the middle spend the most money togeather as a group. We as a group make big impact on our country. Great place America where folks can have these discussions and you dont need to worry about going to Jail or getting Shot.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Great points DJV. I am in agreement on both partys with you. I do not like politicians in general regardless of which party they are with. They all have agenda's and you hit the nail on the head about when the paint drys--

 

[bear]

I guess I'm a republican only because the Dem's (although their hearts are oftentimes in the right place) haven't a clue!

But listen.........Big Biz has polluted and pillaged this country...and is now doing much the same all over the world! We do love our slave labor. .......especially when it will ...........improve profits and add great value to stock option packages of the "fat cats" damn right! why manufacture where ya would have to employ the American middle class and pay a living wage. Why manufacture where ya have to comply with OSHA standards...
purchase expensive pollution control equipment etc. Dump that crap in the rivers and streams in Indonesia ....burn and let the unfiltered pollutants go into the air .....elsewhere...Cut the cost of production! Pay pennies on the dollar for wages...Thats competitive advantage. Uh...why are we not loved and respected???

Stock option packages present a real disincentive to produce in this country and now , in order to compete,....everyone will have to go overseas.......China..you bet!

So, I'm alright , and so are my kids! We are all a part of the group that has or will fit nicely into this economy as professionals or the highly trained in service capacities......BUT....WTF happens to all those where the plants have closed down...the unemployed and the underemployed who, as a group will continue to grow as
disenfranchized poor. Our massive middle class is eroding and millions of hard working poor cannot feed their families. (even with 2 jobs or 3 at $6 an hour)

Bush.......hes the Prez, I support him , but not my Favorite
All the friggen hawks....na! I'm all for getting Al Queida and those responsible for any terrorist acts...for protecting our homeland and being so powerful that its a deterrent ....BUT...
I remember all the "Hawks" in the mid 60s ( there were tons) ..............till the body bags hit the 10s of thousands.
Whos next after Iraq....North Korea...and after that..

Just my take on a few issues
Gotta run .....good discussions here!

 

[dawgball]

bear--very well stated points, but I disagree with some of your ideas.

First off--OSHA--Is it a good idea? Most definitely! Is it good in practice--Hell no! The level that OSHA has taken itself to is the problem. If OSHA would have stuck to the things taht really mattered for the safety of employees then business owners and workers alike would not have such a hatred to it.

Which brings me to unions--I think Unions could be a great thing, but they won't stop when they know it's enough. The Union leaders have to push for more all the time, or they would be viewed as idle to their masses. This just won't cut it. So, what happens, wages are increased too much (in some or even a lot of cases) and job duties are lessened. I witnessed it first hand as an outsider looking in at companies such as Delphi, GM, and Ford. I don't completely despise Unions, but I think they are severely abused. And there is really nothing that a business owner, management, or a responsible Union member can do about it. Herd mentality has taken over and it is probably too large of a snowball now to stop.

Slave labor--I do know that this comment was in some jest but with a point. The problem with Americans and not just the business owners is that we are never satisfied. If a company profited $10 million in a year, then it needs to be $15 the next. Thank you, stock market and your above mentioned stock-options (which I despise!). But, the workers are the same. If you are making $12/hour then it should be $15. If your insurance pays 90% then it should be 95%. You have to remember that MOST, not all, American business owners are cut from the same cloth as American workers. We are born and bred to continually improve. If not, you're dropped from the game. Should it be like that? Not necessarily, but that is why we, as a country, are where we are.

Living in Atlanta you see why the Democratic party does not work. Government offices are WAY overstaffed and the workers are absolutely pathetic. I have lived in several cities, and I understand that city (and most government) employees do not care, but the workers in Atlanta take it to another level. For example, I called the Tax Commissioner's office the other day becuase my property was mis-appraised. The lady that answered the phone asked me how I got her number. It was on top of my bill. It was 3:45 pm and she said this was the 12th call that she received today, and it is usually only around 4. She proceeded to tell me that she had decided that she was NOT going to answer the phone again because it was not right that she had to answer the phone that much. 12 times! After talking to her for about 10 minutes, I had no information about my property, but I did find out that answering the phone was her primary job detail. 12 times! It took me approximately 5 weeks to get someone on the phone that admitted that the appraisal was incorrect. Then I went into getting it changed. Enough said.

Sorry about the ramble, but why I brought up politics is that I am not necessarily Republican either. I have been researching the Libertarian party and wanted to see people's take on it.

Any opinions?

 

[djv]

dawgball you mention benifts/insurance. What get's me is how little the State and US Government employies pay for there insurance packages. My coverage at work last 3 years alone went up over 22%. Guess who payed for it. ME. I believe our State, US workers and Officials need to get nothing better then what I had and payed for. Why should we have to give them so much extra. They will tell you they get payed less. Thats BS to.

 

[JT]

As a union member and one who takes alot of pride in my work I do find it disturbing when the Reps in each store are usually the worst or one of the worst workers. I feel it gives justification to companies and people's general opinions of unions. Still, in principle I believe in them.