VD's preview: Cincinnati Bengals

Vegas Dave

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Last Year:

They are the cream in your coffee, they are the caramilk in your caramilk bar, and they are the ketchup for your French Fries. They are the Cincinnati Bengals. Every NFL season is not complete without a chapter from the Cincinnati Bengals. The NFL?s perennial pi?ata got off to a scorching start last year losing their first four games by a combined score of 119 ? 23. It only took them five weeks to actually show up to a football game when they lost by a ?respectable? seven points to Indianapolis. After a tough loss to Tennessee, Cincinnati won its Super Bowl beating the crap out of the expansion Houston Texans. The Bengals had to wait until week 16, their last home game of the season, to get their first win at home. Drugs may have been involved, but investigations are still continuing to determine how in fact Cincinnati did win that game. Join me as I dig to uncover why the Bengals are running on a hamster?s treadmill of letdowns.

What we learned from Last Year:

Quick, tell me the name of the person who is the owner/president of the Cincinnati Bengals? What? You give up? If you are hypnotized by the fact that the Bengals have not had a winning season in 12 years, then let me wake you out of your deep sleep. His name is Mike Brown, and being the president of this franchise, most of the fault should be in his hands. They haven?t had an above.500 year since he started 12 years ago, compiling a record of 55 ? 137 during his tenure. If you made an investment with your money, and you had lost 40% of it, you might want to change either where you?re investing your money. Not this guy. Mike Brown refuses to give up control of the roster, and refuses to bring in a general manager. The players may have changed throughout his time, but the face of the team has not. With so many high draft picks, and a lot of money under the cap generally every year (because no one wants to play in Cincy) shows that problem are occurring off the field, not on it. If you are drafting in the top five, year after year, you are bound to hit a superstar or two so your luck should change at some point. They bring in one coach, then another, then a third, yet no one can figure this team out. The misery of this franchise has trickled down from its front office. For the first time Mike Brown searched outside of his organization to find a coach and look at how applicants approached the coaching vacancy in the off-season. The better coaches in the league enjoy challenges. They enjoy going to a team who has potential and turning things around similar to what Mike Holmgren is trying to do in Seattle, what Bill Parcells is trying to do in Dallas, and what Dick Jauron did in Chicago. Look at the difference for this job. Dennis Green, Mike Mularkey, Tom Coughlin, and Mike Holmgren (although still employed) wanted nothing to do with it. Even with so few minority coaches Lovie Smith and Marvin Lewis were both had to think about this job. If coaches thought for a second that the problem was the players, and how they were being coached, there would be numerous candidates applying. The feel is that this problem is above them, and it is.

So how does the trickle down theory work? It is simple. The team just lacks effort week in and week out. Who would want to play for such a franchise? A franchise that is mired in malfunction. The players on this team just quit, sometimes during plays, and sometimes throughout the whole game. Even the coaching might be supbar simply because they are handcuffed by Mike Brown. Look at Jon Kitna for example. We all have heard by now that he was 6 snaps short of his bonus last year. Hey, a deal is a deal, and he didn?t meet the requirements, but you know that this organization tried to do everything in its power to screw him. He was the most effective quarterback they had, yet they only started him in week five. So now, he is the starting quarterback this year. Let me ask you something, what kind of effort would you put in for a job where your boss just screwed you? This is a team with a mentality that they will fail, and if you?re going to fail, then why try?

What has changed?:

There a few significant changes to this team, which will likely have very little effect this coming season. The first, and most notable, is the hiring of Marvin Lewis. As mentioned before this is the first time Mike Brown has gone ?out-of-organization? to hire a coach. Why this is significant is because maybe Mike is feeling the heat? This is possibly a last gasp effort to turn this team around without giving his control up. This will create a buzz of hope for this team, probably not for long though.

Next change was the drafting of Carson Palmer. This is significant because the Bengals? franchise will be in his hands shortly. He probably could start right away, not because he?s that good right now, but because his competition is so poor. The reason he won?t start is because they don?t want him to take a psychological beating if the team loses most of its games. For now the team is Kitna?s.

Third significant change was the departure of Takeo Spikes. This probably won?t have much of an effect on the team because they were terrible with him, and they can?t get much worse without him. He?s a good player, and he?ll fit it well on the Bills, a team where his teammates won?t quit nearly as much. This team?s problem is not lack of talent, its lack of effort.

The biggest impact will be from Marvin Lewis, can he get this team to give their best effort. I think the answer is yes, but the first thing they need to do is get Kitna out of the picture. Jon Kitna will be a cancer for this team, like he is for most. Jon has lost his job before to Brock Huard, Matt Hasslebeck, Gus Frerrotte, and even Akili Smith. Why is he still in the NFL? He has never had a chance to play without anyone looking over his shoulder. That won?t change this year as Carson Palmer will be waiting, most likely only a few weeks, before he gets a chance to start instead of Kitna. On top of that, we know Jon?s sentiment about his ?bonus? last year. If he is the team leader on offense, how well will he lead with that burn job in the back of his mind? Shane Matthews is the third string QB right now, but I?d start him over Kitna in a second, simply because he won?t bring the team?s morale down. At least Matthews has thrown for more touchdowns than interceptions in his career.

As I?ve mentioned before, this team has talent, but they just lack effort. They have a solid offensive line anchored by Willie Anderson, a great running game with Corey Dillon, good receivers with Chad Johnson, Peter Warrick, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, and now Kelley Washington. Too bad they don?t have a QB that can deliver the ball to this talented bunch. With a Drew Bledsoe, this team would have easily been able to compete with teams offensively at the very least.

On the defensive side of the ball, Marvin Lewis will really have to pull a rabbit out of his hat. There is trouble all over the secondary, with big question marks at both safety positions. The defensive line looks shaky as well. The only positive might be Dennis Weathersby if he can recover from gunshot wounds. He dropped to the 4th round due to the injury, and might be a potential steal.

With the same owner/president, don?t expect significant changes.

O/U 5.5:

Is there a glimmer of optimism in the Natti? Can Marvin Lewis re-energize this team or is the trickle down curse going to continue? Until we have seen any change, why should we expect a different team? Before I get to their schedule, I?ll leave you with this stat. The Bengals have reached 6 wins only 4 times in the Mike Brown period. Cincinnati was swept by every team in their division last year; I?ll give them one win this time around. That leaves them needing five more wins against: Broncos, @Raiders, @Bills, Seahawks, @Cardinals, Texans, Chiefs, @Chargers, 49ers, Rams. I wouldn?t count Houston a ?guarantee? this year, as they might be looking to avenge their loss last year. Looks like a tough road to six, especially for a lazy team.

Fantasy Sleeper:

If you are looking for a fantasy receiver to steal, this team has a couple. With their awful defense, Cincy will most likely be down in games quite a bit this year forcing them to pass the ball to get themselves back in the game. Although Jon Kitna is pretty bad, and the only thing he can do consistently is throw backbreaking interceptions, he will still complete passes. If this team is constantly throwing the ball, then that is good news for your receivers. Chad Johnson broke out last year, and he?ll probably get most of the attention this year but have a good look at Peter Warrick in the late rounds of your pool, I?m sure he?ll be around.
 

4bubba

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Very intense. I imagine most of the country feels at least as bad about the Bengals as you do.

They will never win a game.
i'll never bet them again.
They will never cover.


LOOKS LIKE I BETTER PLAN ON BETTING THE BENGALS THIS YEAR!!!
 

Vegas Dave

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No no, please do not be fooled. Sharp people get burned on the Bengals more than others.

Contrary to my preview, alot of the public believes the same thing that they do every year, and that is that this is the year the Bengals snap out of it. I believe the words being used are 'renewed optimism'. The public for some reason puts faith into them with all the changes they make every year.

I guess a similar example would be that the public loves to bet on streaks ending instead of continuing. Like a team who's hot, more people will bet thinking the streak will end tonight opposed to betting on the hot team to continue winning. I'm not sure why. Maybe its 'cause the media tells them that. NFL.com has a nice pick of Jon Kitna on the front page. ;)

I really don't care about the Bengals, or should I say I care about them as much as I do any team. One rule that I learned though is NEVER EVER bet on the Bengals. Not until they break out of this franchise "slump".

But hey, don't let me stop you from betting them, I just hope you have long nails. :cool:
 

4bubba

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Sorry Dave, most of the public does not feel the Bengals will do anything. In fact, except for Cincinnati fans and MadJacxk readers, few people even know who the head coach is this year (or any other year).
I know many football bettors in the Vegas area, and none of them think the Bengals will turn it around. I am looking closely at the Bengals, not because I think they will turn it around, but because the vast majority of bettors are against betting them before the season even starts. Thats what makes them a viable point-spread winner.
 

Vegas Dave

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No you're right actually. I got mixed up. For some reason I thought the public liked the Bengals, but then I remembered the one game I bet on them from last year. Tampa -6.5 against Cincy alot of people pounded Tampa Bay. That was the one time I took Cincy, and they got murdered. I just remember seeing Cincy looking like a good bet a few times last year because everyone bets against them, but then they usually get crushed.

Like I said this is just one team I stay away from.
 

dawgball

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I would never suggest betting on Bengals games either way. It is tough to cover large numbers in the NFL, but if you are going to do it the Bengals are a good candidate. I have lost time and time again with the Bengals looking for that turn-around. The last time they were favored in a game was on 9/8/2002 (first regular season game last season) against the Chargers giving 3 points. The final was SD 34 Cin 6.

The safest bet with the Bengals is taking the over. Their offense is not going to get it done, but their defense resembles a caulander. Opposing offenses basically hang whtever number they wish.

Their O/U numbers for the last 20 regular season are 14/5/1. 2 of the unders were posted at 48 and 45 and a third missed by the hook under 41'.

If there is a bet to be made with this sorry team it is with posting big numbers by the other team.
 

BobbyBlueChip

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Good discussion. I agree that this team is a sharp bettors worse nightmare because they always qualify for some rushing angle but they never show up. I'm done with them.

But people have known that this team has sucked for years and been afraid to bet on him, but they still manage to get hammered ATS.

2002 4-12
2001 8-8
2000 5-11
1999 4-11
1998 7-9
Combined 5 year record 28-51 (35.43%)

ATS record in the first 4 games of the season during the last 5 years is 3-16-1, yet no one has ever had high hopes for this team.
 

Wolftaz

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I have read your write ups on various teams, but I can see that you are not very close to the Bengals situation and follow them from a distance. There are quite a few facts that you have to get straight for this to be a credible analysis of the Bengals organization as a whole. This is one reason why I never put much credibility into writers who feel they can cover every NFL team.

Everyone knows that Mike Brown is the biggest reason for the teams poor performance over the past decade, but do you know who is becoming more involved with the organization's decison making process? Katie Blackburn, who was not mentioned once in this write-up. It is no secret in Cincinnati that her and her husband were the lobbyists for Lewis over Tom Coughlin, who was very much interested in the Bengals head coaching position. Katie Blackburn will eventually be the successor to Mike Brown and is the type of person who believes in surrounding herself with intelligent people who know and understand their jobs, unlike Mike.

I am also confused about how Kitna got screwed? I take it that you did not know that Kitna was awarded his bonus by Katie and Mike. Kitna was one of the hottest QB's over the 2nd half of the season last year. The hottest? No, but one who realizes his role and has a grasp for the offense. Who would have thought Trent Dilfer would have lead Baltimore to a Superbowl victory after his past performances? Chad Johnson points to no one other than Kitna for his development and maturity as a WR. The man is a leader in the locker room and that is what is needed from your QB. He is also a very good mentor, along with Shane Matthews, for Carson Palmer.

The greatest impact for this team has already taken place. It was the off season conditioning program was put in place by Chip Morton and Kurtis Schutlz. Morton was strength and conditioning coach with the Ravens when they won the SB and Shultz was with the Maryland Terrapins when they won the NCAA Championship. They have completed a $250,000 renovation of the Bengals weight room and put a premium on conditioning that has not been seen by this franchise in the past. I don't think it will take the Bengals 8 games to get in shape this year, like it did last year. The players have totally bought into the program and has drawn great praise from them.

The departure of Takeo Spikes will benefit this team more than if he stayed with the team. They signed John Thornton, Kevin Hardy, Tory James, Reggie Kelly and Carl Powell with the money it would have taken to sign Spikes. For the Bengals this should have been a no-brainer. Lewis has brought in players who have bought into his system and want to play for him. This is a change from the past where players went to Cincy only as a last resort. These players actually wanted to play for Cincy. The Bengals have also cut loose numerous players who under previous coaching staffs would have never been considered to be let go. This shows a change in philosophy for the organization for the better.

It would also be nice to mention that Marvin Lewis has put together a pretty impressive coaching staff. The additions of Leslie Frazier as Defensive coordinator and Ken Zampese as QBs coach might be the most impressive. Frazier is held in high regard throughout the league and Mike Matrz has nothing but good things to say about Zampese and believes he should be an offensive coordinator soon. Gone is the likes of Lebeau and his laid back style and Ken Anderson, who tried to make every QB under him into a mold of his former self.

In closing I would just like to say I appreciate the views of Vegas Dave, but do not feel the write-up was based on all the facts. This is why I really appreciate the write-ups from guys who follow a certain team or a certain division instead of someone who feels they can write-up the whole league. We have many MadJackers who can give us more insight on specific teams because they look for the little intangibles. Again this is not a bash on Dave only my own personal insight. I am not saying that everyone should go bet the Bengals. Only that I believe that this organization has made the right changes to get this organization headed in the right direction.

:nutkick
 

Vegas Dave

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Wolftaz

That is very good stuff. My previews are just a starting point for discussions on the team. Clearly you are closer to the Bengals than I am, so know alot more about them. By posting my preview it opens up for discussion, agreements/disagreements, and hopefully I myself learn more about them.

Like you said its very tough to know a lot about 32 teams, but I try. ;)

My previews are basically just from what I have seen from the teams. I do watch quite a bit of film on each team including highlights/games. I don't have any correspondants or inside information. I'd say from the response I'm getting I'm doing a decent job.

I try to be as informative as I can from an un-biased perspective. I think my overview on the Bengals or anyother team for that matter is not perfect, but it is informative, and it helps people:

(a) start thinking about football again.
(b) start thinking about how teams will perform this year.
(c) how teams have changed or if they have changed.
(d) help everyone get a better knowledge of each team.

If you want to make money in this businness, that is the only way. The people who visit this forum right now are mostly sharp people. The public will start thinking about this kind of stuff in a week before the season starts. If we all help each other out, we will all benefit in the long run.
 

Vegas Dave

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Just to respond, Jon Kitna is the best this team had last year. That's the only reason he played. Chad Johnson points to Kitna for his maturity because Kitna was the only QB out of last year's three that could get him the ball. Johnson could not mature under the other guys because he would never get the ball. Kitna would not be starting on most teams, and as I have mentionned he has lost his job to Brock Huard, Matt Hassleback, Gus Frerrotte and even Akilit Smith took some of his time last year. He has thrown for more intercetpions than touchdowns in his career, his numbers are below average.

I still don't believe anyone on this team has confidence in Kitna. They brought him in originally to start for Akili Smith, that didn't work out. Then they brought in Gus Frerrotte (who is terrible) to replace Kitna last year. Then they went back to Kitna to salvage their year last year and he did play well. Maybe he performs well when he knows the job is his, like at the end of last year. Whether he plays well or not, his days are numbered in Cincy, once again.

He's blown opportunites to be the outright starter. He can barely get the job done, and he throws heart-breaking intercetpions. He shows flashes of deceny, but very little consistency. In the second half of last year he was pretty hot, but this team had nothing to play for. Matt Hassleback is one of the best QB's in the league when there's no pressure, but he's terrible when there is some value in a game. Maybe Kitna is the same? I know you're not trying to convince me that Kitna is anything special, but this team needs somebody who will consistently put points on the board, and give this team a chance to win. I'm not sure he can do that.

As for your other points, I can't argue with any of it. Its really good information as a matter of fact. ;)
 

Wolftaz

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Vegas Dave,

I appreciate the write-ups on the teams, but like I mentioned earlier, I would like to see people on the board who follow teams religiously post some write-ups. You have opened up the forum for these MadJackers to do so in the future and it will benfit the forum as a whole.

One point to make about the Bengals is that this organization is being run differently than in the past. Mike Brown is no longer the voice for the team, now it is Marvin Lewis. He has more power than Mike would like people to believe.

As far as why Akili and Gus got some of the starts last year instead of Kitna.....Well that all goes back to how the Bengals were ran in the past. The coaches were puppets and weak. Kitna clearly outplayed both Gus and Akili in the preseason only to be told that Gus would be the starter. The writing was on the wall that Mike Brown wanted immediate results and thought that Gus could provide them, which he didn't. Kitna is no superstar but he knows the offense. Like I mentioned before you do not need a superstar QB to win championships, only steady and consitent play. It was well known around Cincy last year that the players wanted Kitna to be the starter. There was alot of unrest with how Lebeau handled the QB situation last year and it showed in their play. I am not sure where you are getting the feeling that the players were not behind him. Carson Palmer is definitely the man of the future, just not this year for his sake.

Dick Lebeau is arguably one of the lamest coaches I have ever seen. The man showed no passion or desire at all. Teams are led by examples, and the Bengals have had no one to lead them since Sam Wyche. Players are known to give their all for Marvin Lewis. He is a motivator and players respond to him. This is something that the Bengals have sorely lacked in the past. They will definately benfit as a team by having him as Head Coach.

The Bengals have earned their spot as one of the worst Pro franchises in history over the past 12 years, but that should not overshadow the changes that have taken place over this past off season. As a Bengals fan I feel the dark days are coming to an end, but it will take some time to earn the respect that they enjoyed in the 80's. I do feel the team will surprise people this year. Some people had them going to the playoffs last year, but poor coaching was definately evident as well as poor conditioning. I feel they have addressed both of those issues during the off-season. Will they make the playoffs? Probably not. But, I would not be surprised to see them go 7-9 or 8-8.
:weed:
 

dawgball

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wolfatz--you may be helping to start the trend. VD starts the conversation then someone with more insight adds what they know. Great info. Being a Bengals fan for several years (up until I moved to Atlanta 2 years ago), I know how it feels to be in your shoes. You want to believe that they are not going to be a doormat anymore. I think you're right that Lewis could serve as the fuel to get this franchise back to respectability.

A couple of things: I think if Akili would not have injured his leg, he would be the best QB for the Bengals...no longer. Kitna is the man of the present. Kitna is terrible. I don't think their defense has been that bad over the last several years except their secondary. But when you are on the field 80% of the game, you are going to give up a ton of points. If Kitna was not going 3 and out, he was turning the ball over--usually in the opponent's half of the field.

Katie Blackburn is no better than havig Mike Brown if Mike is still around. This franchise will not turn things around until Mike is completely out of the picture. The Bengals have historically treated their players with little respect, and the players reflect that. Do you think that Dillon is going to magically forgive the Bengals overnight? I don't. These players have spent thier careers being kicked in the dirt by opponents, upper management, and by their fans. That is not something that Marvin Lewis can make people forget tomorrow.

If Lewis keeps the job for 3-5 years, I think the Bengals will be a stellar team that may actually compete for the big one. But I am going out on a limb and saying that there is no way that the Bengals sniff 8 wins this year.

An example of what the air is like being a Bengal. This next quote was taken from their homepage pop-up poll:

The Bengals haven't won more than two preseason games since the Super Bowl season of '88. What will be their record this preseason against the Jets, Lions, Titans, and Colts?

WTF is that? I think for morale sake, you could word that a little better. Now I don't think Chad Johnson woke up this morning and went to the Bengals website, but that kind of spin drives home to the fans that thier team sucks and they are going to continue to suck.

I hope for the fans and players sake that the Bengals do better this year than in recent past. I am friends with Ken Anderson, and I know he was not a good coach but he did (does) love the Bengals organization. It's time that something happened where Brown is ousted out of town.

GL this season and keep the information coming. I almost hope I am wrong. I apologize about the rant. It comes from built-up tension leftover from my stint pulling for this franchise.;)
 

Vegas Dave

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If the coaching, and mentality of the team has changed so much then 7 - 9 or 8 - 8 is not out of reach. What concerns me is that all of this stuff that you are telling me about conditioning, new coaching, new direction, it all sounds so good on paper. I used to live in Calgary where the Calgary Flames would go through this sort of thing every year. We would hear new management has come in, and put in a system of hard work ethic, we would hear the Flames are trying different strategies, the Flames are being well conditionned so they don't put out poor efforts, but not a whole lot really changed. What happens if Cincy gets smoked in week one? How will they respond? Who will Marvin Lewis put in as QB if Kitna has a poor start and he feels the pressure from 'up above'? How long will he have control of this team if they start just like last year? That will be a key for them this year.

Steady and consistent play from a quarterback will not always win you championships. It will if your defence is as good as Baltimore's, which is one of the best ever. Cincy's defense allows points to everyone. Early and often. Therefore Cincy needs a QB who is above average. Somebody who can constantly put up points too. If they had that, they would resemble a team like Buffalo very much.

My point about the confidence in the team is just this: How confident would you be in a guy that was brough in to replace a failure (Akili Smith), then failed himself and had a replacement come in for him (Gus Frerrotte) and then Frerrotte failed, so by default Kitna got the job back. They had nobody better. Nevermind better or worse, they literally had no other quarterbacks to try out. Although he may have gained some confidence from teammates in the second half of last year, as soon as he starts to falter this year people will be calling for Palmer or even Matthews.
 

Vegas Dave

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dawgball

I agree.

The Bengals are like that drunk uncle that keeps stumbling to the family dinners. He looks drunk, and smells like alcohol yet he says he's changed. This time though, he's wearing a clean shirt, and at least he's shaved his face, but in my books the jury still out on whether he's changed or not.

P.S. Maybe he has a flask in his back pocket. ;)
 

Hoops

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As a fellow Bungals fan I must say, though the QB selection is slim, Kitna will never be the answer if they even want to sniff the playoffs again. He throws too many INT's and always seems to make a terrible decision at key points in the game. Hopefully Carson can get things going in a year or two.

Losing Spikes isn't that big of a deal. He got too much pub after (I think it was Bettis, not sure) being lauded as better than Ray Lewis. Not even close. Simmons played just as well or better for Cincy last season.

What kills me is their second round pick from last year, Thompson, is a big safety, looks like a tank...yet they might have to put him on the bench because he's afraid of contact..doesn't like to hit. Wonderful.
 

dawgball

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I was driving to get my haircut at lunch and listening to talk radio. They had Corey Hall (acquired by Falcons from Bnegals this year) on Two Live Stu's--sidenote:eek:ne of the best sports talk shows i've heard.

They asked what Corey what the differences were playing in Atlanta compared to Cincy. First, he laughed. Then,he basically said that there is no similarity. Here the players, coaches, and management all work as a team. There the players only want to play well, so they will get traded. He said the management basically had ruined the hearts of the players there. He said he was actually scared that no teams would be interested in obtaining him because they had never seen him on a winning team.

Not that I put a terrible amount of weight in what he was saying, but I thought it was interesting that he was on the radio after we were having this discussion.
 

dawgball

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I was driving to get my haircut at lunch and listening to talk radio. They had Corey Hall (acquired by Falcons from Bnegals this year) on Two Live Stu's--sidenote: one of the best sports talk shows i've heard.

They asked Corey what the differences were playing in Atlanta compared to Cincy. First, he laughed. Then,he basically said that there is no similarity. Here the players, coaches, and management all work as a team. There the players only want to play well, so they will get traded. He said the management basically had ruined the hearts of the players there. He said he was actually scared that no teams would be interested in obtaining him because they had never seen him on a winning team.

Not that I put a terrible amount of weight in what he was saying, but I thought it was interesting that he was on the radio after we were having this discussion.
 

Wolftaz

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dawgball,

Corey Hall is commenting on a completely different coaching staff than the one that is in place now. There is no doubt that the Bengals have been subpar in the past in their treatment and development of players and his comments are justifiable about the previous staff. I do believe that this is changing with some of the things that Marvin Lewis and the organization has done in the off-season.

The $250,000 overhaul of the weight room and the hiring of a nutritionist to complement the off-season conditioning program is something the players greatly appreciate. Players have made numerous comments on how things have changed for the better.

Hoops makes a good point about Spikes. I do not feel that he is that great of a loss. He is a good player, but I also believe that Brian Simmons will flourish in the transition from ILB to OLB. Leslie Frazier wants to utilize Simmons' speed to create pressure from the outside, something the Bengals have lacked in the past.

The special teams should also improve under the new coaching staff. Marvin Lewis has emphasized the importance of good special teams play and it showed in their recent mini-camp. A good portion was spent on special teams, something that the previous staff spent minimal time practicing.




:D
 

broondog

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Have to agree with what Wolftaz is trying to get across to you people, Vegas Dave keeps pounding yesterday............Wolftaz is trying to give insight to tomorrow!
I actually think Mike Brown may be showing the other side of his leaf...I think he's heard the outcry for change...When street vendors outside your Cadillac , taxpayer funded, stadium sell t-shirts in bold letters saying"Mike Brown sucks" and your teams fans are buying them, you may want to take a look at the past 12 years and consider change.
As far as Vegas Dave's views......and I'm not calling you out......but, I think maybe it's more "opinion" or "personal perception"
Again: what Wolftaz is saying: Let loyal fans give facts and insight to teams changes and when they do, ponder the validity of it..........it may benefit us all$$$$$$:D
 

4bubba

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//

Yes,

The greys are lightening, the darkness lifting. On the horizon shows distant hills and trees. Colors slowly return. Brighter and brighter becomes the sky and wells up in each of us an anticipation of the days arrival. The awe of the endless possibilities that are unfolding. The tease of hope. Beautiful, but agonizingly slow in its approach.


ITS THE DAWN OF ANOTHER FOOTBALL SEASON !!!!!!!!


Just think ahead to that first Thursday night, the first game of the season. A half hour before game time. Trying to listen to the TV commentators saying the same thing they said last year. Watching some idiot with a microphone walking on the field saying nothing a lot. Just waiting for the game to start. Waiting for the first kickoff.

Try to join a group of NFL fans. The building emotions form an electricity in the air. A casino sportsbook is a unique place as all the NFL "experts" crawl out from the shadows again. The betting windows jammed with excited people. Opening game at a casino sportsbook/bar is a tremendous place to be. I highly recommend it.
 
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