Was the war worth it.

[DOGS THAT BARK]

This was question on Asian forum that is predominately Islamic.
They been giving me just a tad of flack on reply
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by: wchoehn
Posted on: 04/05/03 20:23
Msg #224

Absolutley!!!
1st things 1st.The past administration in U.S. had a lot to do with advancement of terrorism.
It was governed by a very weak and immoral leader. When you have a commander and chief with a pedigree of a peace protester followed by a bunch of leftist who think you can talk and reward fantics you get what you ask for.
Results terrorism flourished unabated.This was huge flaw followed by a greater flaw by Osama,that he could attack US and we would whine and do nothing as in the past.A huge mistake that that has wreaked havoc on terrorism every since.Here are the results of his little miscalculation.It swayed 1/2 the liberals many from New York that the only defense against fanatic terrorists is greater terror.
How it has unfolded as I see it.
Afgan has always been an untouchable haven as Osama himself said.--and it took Pakistan off the hook because of its close proximity.After taking Afganistan it is whole new ballgame.In fact a little known person whose name is Garrett was sent to Pakistan with 3 other persons and did(with help of Pakistan)what no country could do before,brought out the terrorist that killed the FBI people in Virginia and shortly later brought out the mastermind of 1st Trade center bombing.
How did this occur? Because the world relizes we now have leader with some hair on his nuts who does not make idle threats and will fight terrorism with a vegenence
Considering that taking Afganstan took away their saftey net and shocked Pakistan into reality imagine what the taking of Iraq plays in fighting terrorism.It takes away the countries that harbor terrorist only tool of leverage. The price of oil.From my view the real purpose and victory in this war was the fight against terrorism and not by owning Iraqi oil,simply by contoling the price of oil and in turn getting assistance from mid east countries in fighting terrorist by the ability to collapse their economy at will if they harbor them.If you do not think so watch Syria in the coming months.Hezbolah and others are not feeling very comfortable right now.
---and speaking of economy's and more leverage,it appears Allah "is" on somebodys side.Just when we need edge to have China come in line to curb N Korea's blackmail,mother nature provides the link.We enriched their economy and now if we choose----
I expect that situation to be resolved in short order.
The 2 above terrorist that were captured both said the same. In a way they were glad they were caught,they did not regret what they did but having to look over their shoulders continuosly was fate worse than death.It not going to get better.In 2 1/2 years since a world anti terrorist info system was formed they have accomplished more than the the 15+ years Osama and others have devised system to hide.Ever wonder how a suicide bomber can destroy himself completely and they know within a day who he was?
The coming years will not be a good time to be a terrorist unless their objective is 72 virgins

 

[StevieD]

My God, I had no idea that avoiding service in Vietnam by dodging your way into the National Guard because your daddy had influence put you ahead of a draft dodger. Seems to me in those days it was the same thing except the draft dodgers were usually the ones without the political connections to get into the National Guard.
If it was so well known that we had a President who was soft on terrorism why didn't Bin Laden attack the WTC during Clintons term instead of Bush's? I mean it would make sense to attack while the weak guy was in office. And I don't need a llist of attacks during Clintons Regime because I don't think he was so great either. But Bush had to have the catastrophe of the WTC before even he had the sack to attack with the force we did.
Maybe all this terrorist activity is the result of a few previous administrations who propelled these tyrants into power and supported them and yes, even armed them and in some cases did business with them.
And we will not know if this war was worth it or not for a few years. I am sure it was worth it for Halliburton but we have to see what kind of a government develops there.
I said it before and I see that Bush has finally picked up on it. This War in Iraq was not a war but just a battle in the War Against Terrorism.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Stevie The differnce between Bush and Clinton as far as commander and chief go.
Did you see the sense of pride and sparkle in his eyes when Bush landed on the carrier and the respect the military gave him.

You could see the same twinkle in Clintons eyes and pride while watching the protests and listening to Hilliary shrill.---and as far as respect from military,when he made his trek to "the wall" on vets day they turned their backs and showed him what part of anatomy he could kiss.

I assume they didn't attack during Slicks administration because things were going great,plus they were waiting for reinforcements aka the 5 terrorists he pardoned when he left

 

[djv]

I ask this question of my self a little differant. Do I feal Safer Now.
Not at all. At least not safer due to Iraq war. And I have a hard time calling it a war. More like a 22 days skirmesh. I new we would go through what little war machine he had left since 91 war fast. But then the little terror attacks would start. Same chit been on going in Israel now 30 years.
However some things we have started to do here at home are making sence. Watching Air Ports closer. Our Cost Gaurd watching ports with many new devices. Americam people keeping there eyes open for things that seem strange. More local people getting new training. Now we need to improve on our borders. We still have a eastimated 750 thousand coming acrosse our border with Mexico. That'seach year.
So my answer so far is Iraq has not did anything for me. If it was a feal good thing. Sure I feal great we did it fast. Would have been surprised if we had not.
So many other countries just like Iraq. I guess anytime we need to feal good we can knock one of them off.
Some how that does not seem like the America I grew up in.

 

[dr. freeze]

War on Iraq's best effects may turn out to be the message that countries like Syria, Lybia, Iran, Saudi's and Egypt get.

DJV -- what else could be done to make you "feel" safer?

Only thing I can think of, would be to deport every Arab....but that isn't very feasible and also is not what we stands for.

 

[AR182]

wasn't the world trade center attacked in 1993, while clinton was in office ? please don't tell me that bin laden wasn't involved in that attack, because all of these terrorist groups have different degrees of separation. in other words they are all connected one way or another.

 

[Chanman]

Good Post DTB. I had friends in the military that hated Clinton as much as he hated them. I find fault w/Bush on points djv brought up, but at least Bush confronted our enemies and our military is behind Bush. If I remember correctly William Jefferson didn't think very much of the military and even put it down in words- the letter he wrote to get out of military service. Lets not forget the victims of these Islamic Terrorists and how they were killed. Guess I agree w/ The Chicago Way. Remember "The untouchables"? Went something like 'He brings a knife' 'You bring a gun.'
P.S.- If I was an Islamic Extremist I wouldn't like the first post either.

 

[shamrock]

ar- you are correct, wtc was first attacked in 93. Maybe could it possibly be terrorist fanatics don't really give a shit who the president is?? Possibly this is a stretch, but maybe they don't play the partisan game that so many in this country like to waste their time on. Clinton is over guys, time to move on. Some people will still be trying to blame shit on Bill and his bj 50 years from now.

Being that Bush Sr. held office until 93, and the 8 previous years, it could be just as easily surmised that he was more responsible than Clinton who had just undertaken office in 93. My guess is that it had little to do with who was sitting on Pennsylvania Avenue. Terrorists are just that, plain and simple. And the sooner the country becomes united, rather than wasting endless time with political partisan nonsense the better.


I mean really, Bush had to get over to Iraq because of all these soft Clinton years, are you serious?? I don't know where the Hell people come up with these theories. And what Bush Sr. was compelled to desert storm resultant of all those soft Reagan years??? Give me a break. Move on folks, some people won't be happy until there is another Civil War in this country..

Best
shamrock

 

[Chanman]

With all due respect Shamrock- Do you honestly think the WTC Airliner attacks would taken place if these present day results would have been known? Don't think Korea isn't doing a double take either. I don't agree w/ the previous statement that whatever good happens during a President's Term is to his credit and vica versa, but most ppl see it that way.
Also the Clintons are as Partisan as you can get! Remember before all this started- Rivers of Blood, Islamic Warriors Fighting to their death. etc.? Nah we shattered those myths and exposed a few more.
Not trying to be partisan myself, but Thank F*cking God the Wooden Indian, (Gore), isn't @ the helm- IMO. Would really be fun trying to be Diplomatic to the Arabs w/ J. Lieberman as VP too.
Best to you...Chan

 

[djv]

Doc I mentioned I feal safer but it has nothing to do with Iraq war. Another thing that would be nice is to get Bin Laden found. He is the planner of 9/11 and the one many ralley around. When your dealing with those who are willing to give there life.
Well you dont scare them with what happened in Iraq. They fight with human bombs and things like 9/11. They could care less how many tanks or war planes we have.

 

[AR182]

shamrock,

in case you were referring to me, i was answering stevied's post. you are right that these finatics don't care who the president is. but it seems that they picked the wrong administration to do 9/11. of course it remains to be seen how a democratic admin. would have reacted to these events.

 

[StevieD]

AR, never before in American history had we been attacked on our own soild and had so many deaths in such a dramatic horrifying, sickening attack. The American people came together and vowed to get the thugs who planned that attack. It didn't matter who was president at the time, Bush, Gore, Clinton or the Olson Twins the answer would of been the same. After it was determined that Afaghnastan was hiding Bin Laden that was all we needed to hear. There was not much protest to that war.
Iraq, that is another matter. The thread from Bin Laden to Hussain has not been clearly defined yet. If it was they wouldn't be talking of Liberation, or WMD, or Chemical weapons as the reason.
So we had some protests big deal, that's what seperates this country from the rest of them.
You are right there is too much partisan politics going on in this country but it is not a one way street. Both sides are engaged in it.

 

[djv]

StevieD I can agree to a point. That point being you will not here much about it. It's called the chitty mess in Afaghnastan. We have war lords back in power in about 1/2 the country. The woman are back with there faces covered. Our planes get shot at. But its the locals now that we say we support doing it. We are putting little money into it. Not like the Billions for Iraq. You have to ask why. Well Afgan has no oil to help repay any bill. We are trying to make the capitol look good. But even there it's not safe. We been there over 17 months. We did chace the taliban in to the mountains. We did kill some to. Now we leave the rest a mess. When some other group that hates us get's in there. Then we will ask how that happen again. I guess what im saying. Why are people that are so well informed not asking why we didnt complete one job. Before we started the next. The general in charge of Afgan had the guts to say were not there to rebuild anything. Why do I think he may have had his last promotion.

 

[AR182]

stevie,

i agree with you 100%, i think whoever was president would have gone after bin laden in afghanistan. i meant to post this in my previous post, but my wife started talking to me & forgot(lol).
iraq is another matter. as far as the bin laden-saddam link it's there, maybe not a direct link between these two, but there is a link between iraq & alqaeda. i posted a few articles where the connection was made. it was reported that papers were found also connecting them. even with the connection the wmd's must be found only to keep out of "the bad guys hands".

i have nothing against protests, were in a few of them myself. but it seems alot of these protests were against bush, & not the war. they were personally attacking bush, which i think is wrong. also there were many protests that were led by marxists, & i don't think many of the protesters knew that they were being used.

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Numbers so far:

DEATHS: 1101 Iraqi civilians dead (many women and children) in battle (sic) for Baghdad.

WOUNDED: 6800 wounded.

WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION: 0

To the many bigots, racists, conspirators to murder who frequent these boards, I'm sure the polls will indicate that it was worth it. The Washington scum who launched this invasion are probably quite satisfied with the results.

The latest propoganda from DC is that "...we may never find the weapons of mass destruction....". And they call Clinton a spin doctor. But then again, we did this to liberate the Iraqi people. I wonder how liberated the 1101 dead Iraqis' feel.

We have set the stage for many future terrorist attacks because of the actions of the criminals in DC. Texas justice!!! Funny how our lives are getting back to normal these days. Real funny how the "liberal" media aint showin any photos of these Iraqi kids who were blown apart by some of those great new bombs we got with the cutesey, sound-bite, names.

Was it worth it? Has to be the silliest, dumbest question ever asked on this board. Do you putz's remember that hillbilly slimeball in the White House invaded because Hussein didnt destroy the weapons of mass destruction.

Remember?

Remember?

1101.

This country has never been lower. I never thought we as a nation could commit such atrocities. I guess I'm quite naive. Move over Dixie Chicks, there are a lot of us out here who feel more stongly than you.

Although I don't believe in God, in Bush, Cheney and Rumsfelds case, I wish there was one, because they would surely burn in hell for eternity. Instead they will reap the financial rewards of their murder. Great country we live in huh.

Ed

 

[djv]

Eddie lets not forget we lost over 150 of our GI's over there.
And like I said above. We never finished in Afgan.

 

[shamrock]

ar- was not referring to anything regarding you my friend other than that fact that you were correct regarding who was president in 93.

Actually I voted for Bush, must admit was not very wild about either choice. Also voted for Clinton, also voted for Reagan. Just really believe that way to much time and energy is spent pointing fingers and party bashing instead of building a better safer United country.

Shamrock

 

[SixFive]

Nice response, Eddie. How about the 100s of thousands Hussein had already killed? 1100 seems a small number compared to how many more would have been killed if he were to remain in power. War is hell and innocents always get killed. I do however think the Kurds are pretty happy.

To say this country has never been lower shows that you have a mighty short memory, and I really don't think you believe that. I think you're just trying to stir up the rednecks on the board like me.

Seeing how you don't believe in God, what do you have to look forward to? When a family member dies, what is said at the funeral? That's a sad, sad existence. I might be an ignorant dolt of a hillbilly redneck, but I do have a hope, and I don't have to berate others to get hard like you.

 

[StevieD]

The reason the protestors seem to be protesting Bush instead of "The War" is because the Right Wing Media and the President himself have made this seem like it is their war. How many times have we heard "Thank God we have this President in the White House at this time." and all that crap. They have even tried to tie the tax cut into the war by making it seem unamerican to disagree with anything this admistration does. Sometimes it seems like the only person in the country allowed to disagree with the Presiden is Colin Powell. And even he got some heat from Right Wing Media when he did.

 

[Chanman]

Ahhh Eddie! If only words were actions. Sigh Maybe 6'5" & I could tag team rassle u & StevieD. Best 2 outta 3. Seriously I welcome your input, but still disagree. Don't take this wrong- just still am not swayed. Best to you...
P.S. 6'5" you distract Stevie and I'll get a folding chair to hit him from behind.

Great country we live in huh- posted by Eddie!

You said it!