What The Appeasement Protestors Don?t Understand

Turfgrass

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Going after Saddam Hussein is not a substitute for the war on terror. These are two separate, though similar campaigns.

The Hussein Campaign. Enforce the United Nations that Saddam Hussein disarm. The disarmament deadline was set in 1991, ten years before the attack on the Twin Towers. That deadline was 15 days. We are now over 4,300 days past the deadline. There was a good reason to disarm Saddam Hussein in 1991, long before we ever heard of Osama bin Laden. There is greater reason to disarm Saddam Hussein now.

The Terrorist Campaign. Seek out and destroy those who were responsible for the attacks of September 11th and all who seek to bring terror to our shores as well as those who support them.

There are, of course, connections and similarities between the two campaigns. The focus for both is on the Middle East. Saddam Hussein, the object, of course, of the Hussein Campaign, is known to offer financial and material support to the Islamic terrorists, the objects of The Terrorist Campaign. But the danger presented the our country and the peace and stability of the Middle East and the rest of Europe posed by Hussein is distinctly separate from the threat posed to Americans by Islamic terrorists. The point here is, though, that the two campaigns are separate .. and each campaign would be undertaken whether or not the other campaign existed.

Now ? if you have followed this rather simple concept thus far (which probably means you went to a private school), you will understand that a raid on a Pakistani village looking for Osama bin Laden is a part of

The Terrorist Campaign, not the Hussein Campaign. Likewise, taking out an Iraqi missile battery is a part of The Hussein Campaign, not The Terrorist Campaign.

Taking this a step further; launching an attack on Saddam under The Hussein Campaign does not constitute an admission of failure for The Terrorist Campaign and is not a substitute for actions that might be taken against Saddam.

There, got it? We have two different battle plans being worked right now, and each one pretty much stands on alone. So when you hear bonehead liberals like Bill Maher saying that Saddam shouldn?t be attacked because he had nothing to do with September 11th, try to explain this to them, would you? On second thought, never mind. The idiot wouldn?t understand the concept.
 

TheShrimp

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Re: What The Appeasement Protestors Don?t Understand

Turfgrass said:
Going after Saddam Hussein is not a substitute for the war on terror. These are two separate, though similar campaigns.

The Hussein Campaign. Enforce the United Nations that Saddam Hussein disarm. The disarmament deadline was set in 1991, ten years before the attack on the Twin Towers. That deadline was 15 days. We are now over 4,300 days past the deadline. There was a good reason to disarm Saddam Hussein in 1991, long before we ever heard of Osama bin Laden. There is greater reason to disarm Saddam Hussein now.

But. . .isn't the UN not approving an attack on Hussein?

But, it sure is a convenient organization when it supports US agenda, isn't it?

And what do you mean by "long before we ever heard of Osama bin Laden". WE knew of Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda back in 80s. We helped them fight the Russians.
 

Turfgrass

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As I have posted in another thread I will post here for you Mr. Shrimp.

There's certainly an argument to be made that the U.N., as presently constituted, is worse than useless. For one thing, despite the U.N.'s professed aversion to war, what it really seems to object to is victory. In the U.N.'s 58-year history, two wars have been waged under Security Council auspices: Korea and the Gulf War. Both ended with less than total victories, leaving in power two of the worst tyrannies on earth, which are now two of the world's most dangerous rogue states. (If the U.N. instead of the Allies had fought World War II, Germany might still be ruled by Nazis instead of weasels.)

Let?s make this as crystal clear as we possibly can. The United States is a sovereign nation, not a political subsidiary of The United Nations. The United States can and will act both diplomatically and militarily as it deems necessary to protect it?s vital interests abroad and the security of its people at home.
 

Turfgrass

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And what do you mean by "long before we ever heard of Osama bin Laden". WE knew of Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda back in 80s. We helped them fight the Russians.

The Vast Majority of Americans (except for you guys who knew that we were helping him fight the Russians) never knew of Osama bin Laden by name like we do now. Or do you disagree with that.
 

Turfgrass

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French, Chinese and Syrian companies "have been illicitly supplying Saddam Hussein with materials used in building long-range surface-to-surface missiles," the New York Times' William Safire reports. Safire says Iraq used French and Syrian middlemen to purchase 20 tons of "a transparent liquid rubber named hydroxy terminated polybutadiene, familiarly known in the advanced-rocket trade as HTPB" from a Chinese company. A French company, CIS Paris, brokered the deal, in which the HTPB was shipped by sea from China to Syria, then trucked into Iraq, all in violation of U.N. sanctions.

"Perhaps a few intrepid members of the Chirac Adoration Society, formerly known as the French media, will ask France's lax export-control authorities about these shipments," Safire writes.
 

TheShrimp

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All right, fine. But in the post you made to start this thread, you said The Hussein Campaign was about making him pay for defying UN resolutions.

Am I imagining this statement "The Hussein Campaign. Enforce the United Nations that Saddam Hussein disarm" is written above? Am I seeing things?

You said we have two separate things here. You said they stand alone.

1. The Hussein campaign based on UN resolutions that he defied, and

2. the terrorist campagin based on getting the people responsible for 9/11.

But then you tell us the UN is useless. So, maybe you could reiterate what the "Hussein Campagin" is based on. Because somewhere between us attacking him based on what the UN does and us not needing the UN approval I must have got lost in your stellar logic.

Maybe it's too much Bill Maher. Maybe it was going to college. Maybe you could help me figure out why I'm so damn dumb. :shrug:
 

Turfgrass

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Let me break it down for you then: When we Kicked Hussein's A$$ back in the early 90's, we never got to finish. Now we're gonna finish what we started. Dispite the mighty UN.

I'm not real sure where you want me to go with this.
 

TheShrimp

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OH...so the Hussein Campaign is not about his defying the UN (sorry, I thought I read that somewhere in this thread)? It's just about finishing what we started.

But...

I guess I still got a lot to learn then because I thought the point of the '91 campagin was to get him out of Kuwait. Is he still in Kuwait?
 

Turfgrass

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What do you think bud? We should just let him do his thing?

Is that what you're saying?

Maybe I'm confused. Maybe your saying that the UN is a good thing.
 

TheShrimp

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This ain't my thread.

*You* were going to tell *us* what the appeasement protestors don't understand.

I thought I might get a little information. Something to help me understand. . .you know.

Instead, what it seemed to boil down to is "When we Kicked Hussein's A$$ back in the early 90's, we never got to finish. "
 

Hoops

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Re: What The Appeasement Protestors Don?t Understand

Turfgrass said:
Going after Saddam Hussein is not a substitute for the war on terror. These are two separate, though similar campaigns.


Someone tell this to Bush and Powell. They've been pretty busy the last few months insisting they are one in the same.
 

Turfgrass

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The Hussein Campaign is to get Hussein to disarm. Like he said he would. That's all I can say. Maybe you know a deeper reason than that. I have explained it the best I know how. Sorry if it doesn't work for you. At least I tried.
 
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just cover

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I finally have to say something about all this...

1. The UN is the most useless waste of time and money for all nations. Every single country has an agenda whether it be open or secret, and nothing ever gets done. Yes we have an agenda in this whole situation, but dou you really think the nations that are threatening a veto of a war resolution don't. Get real and wake up.


2. Saddam is a terrorist plain and simple period. If you don't think so what do you call him giving money to suicide bombers family. Also the man has billions at his disposal and some people here and in the world think that since there is no paper or legal proof that he didn't provide some sort of cash or aid to the cowards that crashed that airplanes into our buildings. Get a LIFE. Also if you don't think he isn't taken out or exiled or whatever that he will just be a good boy and torture, kill, and suppress his own people- you are crazy. How much longer do we wait for him to disarm? He is going to do this cat and mouse game until someone stops him. I would like to bet anything that if and when we finally have had enough of this bullshit and go in that he uses all the chemical and biological stuff he has on us. He is in corner because this time if we go in he is coming out.

3. Yes the US has an agenda in this whole matter but who doesn't. What would happen if the whole area destabalizes and goes to shit and the US is hurt even more economically. Every single country we help and give aid to would also suffer. Which some of these countries I would of cut off a long time ago.

4. The poor innocent Iraqis that will die in a war. Well to BAD. WHY DON"T SOME OF YOU PEOPLE WHO CARE SO MUCH FOR THEM GO OVER THERE AND KNOCK ON A DOOR IN BAGHDAD AND SAY "HELLO I AM A CARING AMERICAN IS THERE ANY NICE PLACES TO EAT AT AROUND HERE OR TELL ME YOUR REAL FEELINGS ABOUT SADDAM". Then see what happens.

All this is scattered and pieced in but I am sick of it and had to say something. I will probably get some nice replies back so bring it on you Saddam lovers.

jc
 

ferdville

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While "loss of face" is more often equated with Asian culture, I feel that it has something to do with this situation as well. If the US allows Saddam to look us in the face and back us down, what kind of message does that send to every other penny-ante dictator or would be anarchist in the world? This is dangerous business. I realize that thinking along these lines is sophmoric at best. But, facts are facts. When you let a bully back you off, there is usually a price to pay later. Secondly, what about some of our allies? Do you think that they are confident that we will be there to back them up in need? I doubt it. So everybody in the world runs out to make sure they have their nukes - just in case - because you sure can't count on the United States to be there for you. And that, is a far more dangerous situation that the one we see today. Again, I am aware that this is an immature stance to take, but it more than makes sense to me.
 
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