"you lie"

DOGS THAT BARK

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did my interpretation of GG (Gumby's Grifting) on this issue last week but Charles does MUCH better job--however I disagree with Charles on lie being subtle--its was---
"A lie (also called prevarication), is a type of deception in the form of an untruthful statement, especially with the intention to deceive others "
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
September 18, 2009
Does He Lie?

By Charles Krauthammer

WASHINGTON -- You lie? No. Barack Obama doesn't lie. He's too subtle for that. He ... well, you judge.
Herewith three examples within a single speech -- the now-famous Obama-Wilson "you lie" address to Congress on health care -- of Obama's relationship with truth.


(1) "I will not sign (a plan)," he solemnly pledged, "if it adds one dime to the deficit, now or in the future. Period."
Wonderful. The president seems serious, veto-ready, determined to hold the line. Until, notes Harvard economist Greg Mankiw, you get to Obama's very next sentence: "And to prove that I'm serious, there will be a provision in this plan that requires us to come forward with more spending cuts if the savings we promised don't materialize."

This apparent strengthening of the pledge brilliantly and deceptively undermines it. What Obama suggests is that his plan will require mandatory spending cuts if the current rosy projections prove false. But there's absolutely nothing automatic about such cuts. Every Congress is sovereign. Nothing enacted today will force a future Congress or a future president to make any cuts in any spending, mandatory or not.
Just look at the supposedly automatic Medicare cuts contained in the Sustainable Growth Rate formula enacted to constrain out-of-control Medicare spending. Every year since 2003, Congress has waived the cuts.
Mankiw puts the Obama bait-and-switch in plain language. "Translation: I promise to fix the problem. And if I do not fix the problem now, I will fix it later, or some future president will, after I am long gone. I promise he will. Absolutely, positively, I am committed to that future president fixing the problem. You can count on it. Would I lie to you?"
(2) And then there's the famous contretemps about health insurance for illegal immigrants. Obama said they would not be insured. Well, all four committee-passed bills in Congress allow illegal immigrants to take part in the proposed Health Insurance Exchange.
But more importantly, the problem is that laws are not self-enforcing. If they were, we'd have no illegal immigrants because, as I understand it, it's illegal to enter the United States illegally. We have laws against burglary, too. But we also provide for cops and jails on the assumption that most burglars don't voluntarily turn themselves in.
When Republicans proposed requiring proof of citizenship, the Democrats twice voted that down in committee. Indeed, after Rep. Joe Wilson's "You lie!" shout-out, the Senate Finance Committee revisited the language of its bill to prevent illegal immigrants from getting any federal benefits. Why would the Finance Committee fix a nonexistent problem?
(3) Obama said he would largely solve the insoluble cost problem of Obamacare by eliminating "hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud" from Medicare.
That's not a lie. That's not even deception. That's just an insult to our intelligence. Waste, fraud and abuse -- Meg Greenfield once called this phrase "the dread big three" -- as the all-purpose piggy bank for budget savings has been a joke since Jimmy Carter first used it in 1977.
Moreover, if half a trillion is waiting to be squeezed painlessly out of Medicare, why wait for health care reform? If, as Obama repeatedly insists, Medicare overspending is breaking the budget, why hasn't he gotten started on the painless billions in "waste and fraud" savings?
Obama doesn't lie. He merely elides, gliding from one dubious assertion to another. This has been the story throughout his whole health care crusade. Its original premise was that our current financial crisis was rooted in neglect of three things -- energy, education and health care. That transparent attempt to exploit Emanuel's Law -- a crisis is a terrible thing to waste -- failed for health care because no one is stupid enough to believe that the 2008 financial collapse was caused by a lack of universal health care.
So on to the next gambit: selling health care reform as a cure for the deficit. When that was exploded by the Congressional Budget Office's demonstration of staggering Obamacare deficits, Obama tried a new tack: selling his plan as revenue-neutral insurance reform -- until the revenue neutrality is exposed as phony future cuts and chimerical waste and fraud.
Obama doesn't lie. He implies, he misdirects, he misleads -- so fluidly and incessantly that he risks transmuting eloquence into mere slickness.
Slickness wasn't fatal to "Slick Willie" Clinton because he possessed a winning, near irresistible charm. Obama's persona is more cool, distant, imperial. The charming scoundrel can get away with endless deception; the righteous redeemer cannot.
 

RAYMOND

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http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/09/18/obamas-real-person-health-care-story-not-that-real/?icid=main|main|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.politicsdaily.com%2F2009%2F09%2F18%2Fobamas-real-person-health-care-story-not-that-real%2F
 
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Chadman

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I wonder how Krautie feels about this newest revelation regarding the original "You Lie" individual? The hits just keep on coming from the do as I say, not as I do, republicans... :D

?You lie? Wilson shows two faces on illegal immigration
BY KATHLEEN MILLER

Published: September 18, 2009

The anti-illegal immigration movement is singing Congressman Joe Wilson?s praises, but the lawmaker who was rebuked by the House this week recently helped extend the stay of one of those very ?illegals? the activists hope to remove from the country.

Hundreds of illegal immigration opponents are gathering in Washington right now for the annual Federation for Immigration Reform (FAIR) effort to lobby Congress for tighter border controls and other policies designed to keep undocumented immigrants out of the U.S.

This year, they?re making Wilson, a South Carolina Republican, their new poster boy after he famously shouted ?You lie!? during President Obama?s speech on healthcare reform last week. Wilson?s outbust occurred as Obama was saying he has no intention of giving illegal immigrants access to health care benefits in his reform plan, and CNN personality and avowed anti-illegal immigration crusader Lou Dobbs is giving Wilson ?great credit? for advancing the cause, per The Washington Independent and Politics Daily.

Wilson may have a conflict of interest, however. Two months before he heckled Obama, he introduced legislation to keep Sainey Fatty, an illegal immigrant from Gambia, in the country. Fatty came to the U.S. for school in the early ?90s and lived here for seven years while under a deportation order, according to his friend Bill Cook?s blog.

In his bill, Wilson asks Congress to forgive Fatty?s immigration woes, drop the deportation order against Fatty and allow him to remain in the country legally.


Wilson?s communications director Ryan Murphy told Raw Story in an e-mail that ?Congressman Wilson does not support illegal immigrants getting access to a government taxpayer funded health insurance program.? He did not respond to questions about what motivated Wilson to keep Fatty in the country or whether Wilson supports Fatty?s ability to receive medical care in the U.S.

Officials with Immigrations and Customs Enforcement told Raw Story they aren?t allowed to comment on the details of requests for asylum, although Fatty?s friend Cook says in his blog that Fatty is allegedly a Christian convert who abandoned his Muslim roots. Cook did not respond to Raw Story?s request for comments, and restricted the public?s ability to view his blog after Raw Story left a voice-mail message at his office. Government workers familiar with the process in which members of Congress fight deportation orders say many undocumented people file asylum claims stating they would face violence if they return to their native countries after converting to Christianity.

After South Carolina Republican Senator Lindsey Graham followed Wilson?s lead, Fatty gets to stay in the U.S. for at least the next 15 months. Graham introduced legislation similar to Wilson?s in the Senate, which essentially gives Fatty an automatic stay on the deportation order to give the Senate time to act on Graham?s bill. Fatty is now allowed to remain in the U.S. until the 111th session of Congress adjourns.

?By the grace of God, Fatty has been granted a stay on his deportation,? his friend Cook?s blog reported last month. ??Congressman Wilson and others reached out to Senators DeMint and Graham, who were able to secure a temporary stay?word reached Fatty less than 30 minutes before his flight out of the U.S. was slated to leave today. Praise God for His kindness!?

On Wednesday night, Congressman Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) lauded Wilson for a different reason during a reception for efforts to end illegal immigration: ?It looks like the Senate is going to fix the language in the health care bill,? said King, ?to require proof of citizenship? amnesty in the health care bill has gone down because of who? Joe Wilson!?

Fatty did not respond to requests for comment, but the company website for HIS International, a South Carolina group that bills itself as a non-denominational Christian organization, lists him as an employee since 2003.

The group?s website says it helps foreign students with practical matters like getting driver?s licenses and gives these students the ?option? of joining them for Bible study sessions and retreats. They also provide help accessing medical care.

[I swear, you just can't make some of this stuff up...]
 

The Sponge

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Not sure if this is off topic because i don't read DTB hypocritical garbage anymore. I won't read anything that the poster doesn't read himself let alone deal with a hypocrite like this.
My question is when theses shit bag hypocritical republicans denounced Move On dot org for what they said about General Betray-us these no good fukers had a vote to denouce Move -on.:shrug: All the Republicans found this was a necessary use of their time. :shrug: Now this shit bag rat fuking disgrace of a Insurance company shill Wilson, disgraces himselfs on NTV, and this now is somehow a waste of the tax payers time according to Republicans.:shrug: To make matters worse almost all of them voted to support this poor excuse of a human.:shrug: How anyone can support these hypocritical douche bags makes a guy wonder what kind of douche bags they are.
 

Duff Miver

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Right behind you
r Lou Dobbs ,Wilson, South Carolina Republican Senator Lindsey Graham?to require proof of citizenship? amnesty in the health care bill has gone down because of who? Joe Wilson!?

I hope all three of them find themselves in an Emergency Room with major myocardial infarction -

"Yes, sir, we believe you may be having a heart attack, but we need to see your passport. No passport, no treatment. Sorry, sir, but it's the law.....................................Oops, call the morgue."
 

Trench

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Skulnik, your village called. They are missing their idiot.
KC... go easy on poor Skully. He's just geographically-challenged (the poor shmuck thinks Hawaii's in Indonesia) and I figure if it makes the little feller happy, well, dog-gonnit... why take away something that brings him such joy and gives him a sense of purpose in this crazy ol' world we live in.
 

Hard Times

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KC, what's with the name calling, can't we just disagree without it?

TIA.

Don't let the name calling get you down,basically all we got in this world is our beliefs and of course our opinion that coincides with our beliefs .
Someday you may be proven correct on this BIRTHER issue.
Just so you know,I believe that over half of the congress and 90% of the senate aren't American citizens,there not even from this planet, Aliens from another Galaxy sent here to rule over a slave colony.
Take a good look at this bunch of dorks,they all lie,they steal,they have no morals,they can't possibly believe in GOD and they are constantly trying to fulk someone,trying to reproduce .What do you think ??
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Hmm we got off topic of "the Lie"

ok a question

Psst Gumby--your constitutional scholar--correct?

Then maybe you could explain ruling below and tell us exactly how we could prevent them from healthcare--and while on that topic why did you thumb your nose at current laws and advocate sancuary cities for illegals.

<CENTER>[SIZE=+2]Plyler vs. Doe
1982
- A Summary -[/SIZE]</CENTER>
In 1982, the Supreme Court rules in Plyler v. Doe , 457 U.S. 202 (1982), that public schools were prohibited from denying immigrant students access to a public education. The Court stated that undocumented children have the same right to a free public education as U.S. citizens and permanent residents. Undocumented immigrant students are obligated, as are all other students, to attend school until they reach the age mandated by state law.
Public schools and school personnel are prohibited under Plyler from adopting policies or taking actions that would deny students access to education based on their immigration status.
Based on the Supreme Court's ruling, public school districts should consider the following practices in working with ELL students:
  • School officials may not require children to prove they are in this country legally by asking for documents such as green cards, citizenship papers, etc. They may only require proof that the child lives within the school district attendance zone, just as they might for any other child.
  • Schools should be careful of unintentional attempts to document students' legal status which lead to the possible "chilling" of their Plyler rights.
  • The following school practices are prohibited:
    • Barring access to a student on the basis of legal status or alleged legal status.
    • Treating students disparately for residency determination purposes on the basis of their undocumented status.
    • Inquiring about a student's immigration status, including requiring documentation of a student's legal status at initial registration or at any other time.
    • Making inquiries from a student or his/her parents which may expose their legal status.
  • Federal Program Requirements - Federal education programs may ask for information from parents and students to determine if students are eligible for various programs, such as Emergency Immigrant Education. If that is the case, schools should ask for voluntary information from parents and students or find alternative ways of identifying and documenting the eligibility of students. However, schools are not required to check or document the immigrant status of each student in the school or of those students who may be eligible for such programs. The regulations do not require alien registration numbers or documentation of immigration status.
  • Social Security Numbers - Schools should not require students to apply for Social Security numbers. If schools decide to pass out Social Security registration forms to assist the Social Security Administration, they must tell parents and students, in appropriate languages, that the application forms are merely a service and it is up to the parents and students whether the applications are actually filed. They should stress that schools will not monitor the filing of these applications. Additionally, schools should not require any student to supply a social security number.
  • School Lunch Programs - In order to qualify for Free or Reduced Lunch Programs, all applicants are required to furnish either of the two following types of information:
    • Social Security numbers of all household members over the age of 21, should they have one
    • For all household members above the age of 21 who do not have a Social Security number, an indication of the application that he or she does not possess one.
    • If a student or household members over the age of 21 do not have a Social Security number, "none" should be written in that space or another identifying number could be assigned by the school.
    • Parents and students should be reminded that the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) prohibits any outside agency, including the Immigration and Naturalization Services (INS), from getting this information without obtaining permission from the student's parents or a valid court order.
    • School lunch programs are interested in determining household income, not in determining a student's legal status.
  • Communication with INS - Any communication to INS initiated by a school or school official concerning a specific student is prohibited. If parents and/or students have questions about their immigration status, school personnel should refer them to legal service organizations, immigrant rights organizations, or local immigration attorneys. They should not advise immigrants to go directly to INS offices without first getting proper advice from an attorney or immigrant rights advocate.
  • Requests for information by INS - School personnel are prohibited from cooperating with INS in any way that may jeopardize an immigrant students' right of access (with the exception of the administration of F-1 and J-1 visas). INS requests for information can only be released upon the presentation of a valid subpoena. All school personnel should be advised of this policy. If a subpoena is presented, it may be advisable to check with an attorney to properly check into the validity of the subpoena.
  • Requests by INS to enter a school - School personnel should not cooperate with INS in any manner that jeopardizes immigrant students and their right of access. The school principal should meet with INS officials in the front office with a credible witness present, deny the INS officials consent, and request to see a legal warrant. If a warrant is presented, the principal should determine that it:
    • Lists the school by its correct name and address
    • Lists students by name
    • Be signed by a judge
    • Be less than ten days old
    • Be served by an INS officer with proper identification.
  • <DIR>To protect other students in the school, the principal should bring the INS officials to the office and request that they remain there while the named student(s) is brought to them. The principal should immediately inform the Superintendent and school attorney.
    </DIR>
School District Personnel should always consult an attorney to clarify their duties and responsibilities under Plyler. This document is intended solely for guidance.
Source:
"Immigrant Students: Their Legal Right of Access to Public Schools. A Guide for Advocates and Educators" by John Willshire Carrera, Esq. National Coalition of Advocates for Students.
 

Chadman

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I don't think I was off topic, Wayne, I think I was dead on the topic, but I noticed you bypassed my comment, but no worries. I won't hold my breath waiting for Krauthammer to come out strongly in his measure of Wilson - what's the conservative fun in THAT? :shrug:

I'd be curious to learn exactly what is meant in his second "point" when he says illegals will be allowed to be take part in the exchange? Do all of the legislations say specifically that illegal aliens can take part in the exchange? What is the exchange, anyway? He mentions in his next line that these people are here illegally, so I assume it would have to be specifically addressed that they COULD be a part of things. Not saying it's not true, I just am not privvy to the info. I don't think illegals should have access to anything, personally, but I guess Wilson does - at least his personal illegals, anyway.

Again, who is lying here? Certainly wonder about the person who accuses others of lying, when they are doing the thing they are ranting about? Laughable.
 

Trench

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Again, who is lying here? Certainly wonder about the person who accuses others of lying, when they are doing the thing they are ranting about? Laughable.
wilson.jpg

Joe Wilson explains how every day when he gets home from the office, Sainey Fatty
hands him a daiquiri and rubs his feet.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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I don't think I was off topic, Wayne, I think I was dead on the topic, but I noticed you bypassed my comment, but no worries. I won't hold my breath waiting for Krauthammer to come out strongly in his measure of Wilson - what's the conservative fun in THAT? :shrug:

I'd be curious to learn exactly what is meant in his second "point" when he says illegals will be allowed to be take part in the exchange? Do all of the legislations say specifically that illegal aliens can take part in the exchange? What is the exchange, anyway? He mentions in his next line that these people are here illegally, so I assume it would have to be specifically addressed that they COULD be a part of things. Not saying it's not true, I just am not privvy to the info. I don't think illegals should have access to anything, personally, but I guess Wilson does - at least his personal illegals, anyway.

Again, who is lying here? Certainly wonder about the person who accuses others of lying, when they are doing the thing they are ranting about? Laughable.

Chad-- Kraut said calling O Liar was inexcusible as most have -in fact I don'tknow anyone that defended it--you just don't do that especially on TV broadcast.
Now as for who is lying
--- just how many boldface lies of O's would you like me to put up.
--then how many associates that that were not who he thought would you like me to list

He's a certified grifter Chad--no 2 ways about it.
Sheez He quads the deficit and claims its the era of responsibity--appears to me the only responsibily I see is the tax payors.

I told you from the start -the cuts will come on people that have been responsible --Medicare/ssn.
Those that will benefit will be Da Base/societies deadbeats-freeloaders.

Thats exactly why the slient majority is no longer silent ;)
 
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