The Myth of the SEC (reply to Cie Grant)

[Scott4USC]

The Myth of the SEC

I think it's important for people to know that the SEC contrives its high rankings by playing a bunch of nobodies, and I'm sure some of you haven't seen this yet, so enjoy. Note: this was compiled before this year's bowl games. Also, i did not write this but another fellow trojan did to prove the SEC is not the best conference. And he certainly did.

This is to show how the SEC (or the Big XII, for that matter) inflates its rankings by playing a weak schedule, then beating up on the bad teams in the league to produce five or six top 25 teams.

The SEC has played 243 nonconference games over the past six years, includng this year (not counting bowl games). Of those 243 games, only 54 were road games (22%). That's right, 12 teams over the course of six years played a total of 54 road games against nonconference opponents. That averages out to 3/4 of a road game every year per team, meaning on average, teams in the SEC play less than one road game out of conference a year. And the majority of those road games were games played by teams who had traditional rivals in other conferences (South Carolina and Clemson, Georgia and Georgia Tech, Florida and Florida St.). To compare to the Pac-10, the Pac-10 played 72 road games out of 205 nonconference games (35%).

Even more startling is the fact that the SEC played only 68 games against BCS teams (28%) vs. the Pac-10's 85 games against BCS teams (41%). 12 teams on average played less than one game a year against BCS competition in nonconference play, while the Pac-10 played an average of one and a half BCS teams a year over the past six years. Against BCS competition, the SEC had a losing record over the past six years, going 30-38 (44%). The Pac-10 had a winning record against BCS teams, going 46-39 (54%). The majority of those 30 SEC wins came from four teams-- Tennessee (7-1), Kentucky (5-1, but played only Big Ten doormat Indiana six times), Vanderbilt (5-3, but played Duke for four of those victories), and Georgia (5-3, 3-3 against GTech). The other eight teams in the SEC could only win eight games in six years against BCS teams (going 8-30).

Here is the breakdown of the Pac-10's and SEC's nonconference records over the past six years against the other BCS conferences (does not include bowl games-- this is about scheduling):

ACC
Pac-10 2-2, SEC 14-20

Big East
Pac-10 6-2, SEC 6-7

Big Ten
Pac-10 14-13, SEC 5-1

Big XII
Pac-10 13-11, SEC 2-3

Pac-10
SEC 1-6

SEC
Pac-10 6-1

Notre Dame
Pac-10 5-10, SEC 2-1

To further illustrate the point, the SEC was 151-24 in games against nonconference teams that weren't in the BCS conferences (86%). Even the bad teams in the SEC prop up SOS for the good teams by playing horrible teams that guarantee them wins. Auburn is a good example of what the SEC does to inflate their rankings. If Auburn had played the usual cupcake schedule that they have played in the past, they would be 9-3 right now and ranked in the top 15 most likely, having "only" lost to LSU, Mississippi and Gerogia, while beating supposedly good teams like Arkansas and Tennessee. However, because they chose to play someone legitimate, they are 7-5 and look

they are 7-5 and were looking for a new coach.

This is what the rest of the SEC does, with the exception of Florida, which has to play FSU every year (and loses, by the way) and sometimes Miami (losing to them, too). The following are the SEC teams and their records against BCS opponents listed first and their record against non-BCS opponents over the past six years.

TEAM BCS record, non BCS record
Alabama 0-4, 13-5
Arkansas 1-0, 19-0 (yes, played only one BCS team over the past 6 years)
Auburn 1-5, 14-0
Florida 1-7, 12-0
Georgia 5-3, 12-0
Kentucky 5-1, 10-4
LSU 1-2, 15-2
Mississippi 0-2, 17-1
Mississippi St. 1-3, 13-3
South Carolina 3-7, 8-2
Tennessee 7-1, 12-0
Vanderbilt 5-3, 6-7

This is how the myth of the SEC is perpetuated. Since every team is guaranteed three or four wins to start the season, and then they get 3-4 more wins against the bottom half of the SEC, they have 6-8 wins before playing any of the tougher teams. With just one or two more wins, you have five or six teams with a minimum of eight wins in the "tough" conference, leading to higher rankings for all of those teams and increase SOS.

If you're wondering how the SEC did in bowl games over that time, here you go. After all, if they were truly a much better conference, their bowl record would show it, would it not. Over that same period, the SEC was 21-20 in their bowl games, certainly not dominant like they all claim to be.

Here are the nonconference schedules of both conferences so you can see how sickening the schedules of the SEC teams really are.

Fight On!

Alabama
BYU, E Carolina, S. Mississippi, Houston, Louisiana Tech, S. Mississippi, @UCLA, S. Mississippi, Central Florida, UCLA, Texas El Paso, S. Mississippi, Mid Tennessee, @Oklahoma, N Texas, S. Mississippi, @Hawaii, S Florida, Oklahoma, N Illinois, S. Mississippi, @Hawaii.

Four nonconference road games in six years. Four games against BCS teams. 0-4 r

Stupid. Here's the SEC's schedule over the past six years of nonconference opponents.

Alabama
BYU, E Carolina, S. Mississippi, Houston, Louisiana Tech, S. Mississippi, @UCLA, S. Mississippi, Central Florida, UCLA, Texas El Paso, S. Mississippi, Mid Tennessee, @Oklahoma, N Texas, S. Mississippi, @Hawaii, S Florida, Oklahoma, N Illinois, S. Mississippi, @Hawaii.

Four nonconference road games in six years. Four games against BCS teams. 0-4 record against BCS teams.

Arkansas
SW Louisiana, SMU, @Memphis, @SMU, Louisiana Monroe, Mid Tenn St., SW Missouri St., Boise St., Louisiana Monroe, UNLV, Weber St., Central FLorida, Boise St., S Florida, Troy St., Louisiana Lafayette, Tulsa, @Texas, N Texas, New Mexico St.

Three nonconference road games, ONE GAME against BCS teams. 1-0 against BCS teams.

Auburn
Virginia, Louisiana Tech, Central Florida, Appalachian St., Idaho, Central FLorida, Wyoming, N. Illinois, Louisiana Tech, Ball St., @Syracuse, Louisiana Tech, @USC, W Carolina, Syracuse, Louisiana Monroe, USC, @GTech, W Kentucky, Louisiana Monroe.

Three nonconference road games in six years. Six games against BCS teams. 1-5 against BCS teams.

Florida
The Citadel, NE Louisiana, @FSU, W Michigan, Central Florida, FSU, Ball St., Mid Tenn St., @FSU, Marshall, Louisian-Monroe, FSU, Alabama Birmingham, Miami, Ohio U, @FSU, San Jose St., @Miami, Florida A&M, FSU.

Four nonconference road games in six years, three coming from OOC rival Florida St., the other coming from in-state rival Miami. Eight games against BCS teams, all coming from traditional OOC rivals. 1-7 against BCS teams.

Georgia
Kent St., Wyoming, Georgia Tech, Utah St., Central Florida, @GTech, Georgia Southern, New Mexico St., GTech, Arkansas St., @GTech, Houston, Clemson, Northwestern St., New Mexico St., GTech, @Clemson, Middle Tennessee, Alabama Birmingham, @GTech.

Four nonconference road games in six years.

Could not do anymore, but I think this most certainly proves my point. NOBODY can argue with this. Facts are facts. Don't be duped into thinking the SEC is so tough. :lol:

 

[Blackman]

Why the new thread? If you are going to reply to him, (which you did in his thread) why do you need to start another new thread that is an obvious paste of the previous response. I didn't think you were allowed to spam.

 

[Scott4USC]

After I replied, I thought this piece deserved its own thread. So I apologize for posting it twice, but there is no harm in that. Cie Grant who i respect on madjacks, posted something that was absolutely false. Many people continue to think SEC conference is so tough, so everybody should see the thread and learn the truth. Hard core facts to prove the SEC being a dominant conference is a MYTH!

 

[Blackman]

Fair enough....just a question - what conference do you think is stronger - the Pac10 or the NFC?

 

[Scott4USC]

I do know that many people here feel the SEC is stronger than the Pac 10. So here is another write-up to prove that assumption false as well. Many people here hate these posts, but I think they just hate being proved wrong.

Pac-10 vs. SEC past four years

Went back over the records of the two conferences and how they fared against BCS conference and Notre Dame over the past four years (since 2000). Here is what I found.

Pac-10 was 34-34 vs. BCS competition. SEC was 32-35. Of the 67 games against BCS conference competition, 23 were played because they were bowl games, and another 15 were played because of rivalry games (Georgia vs. Georgia Tech [ACC], Florida vs Miami and FSU [Big East, ACC] and South Carolina vs. Clemson [ACC]). That means the 12 teams of the SEC scheduled 29 games against BCS competition in four years, or a little more than one game every other year per team. The Pac-10 played 15 of its 68 games against BCS competition because of bowl games, and another four were from a rivalry game (USC vs. Notre Dame). That means the ten teams of the Pac-10 scheduled 49 games over four years, a one and a quarter games a year per team.
The SEC was 1-0 vs. Notre Dame, 16-11 vs. the ACC, 8-4 vs. the Big Ten, 4-8 vs. the Big East, 3-6 vs. Big XII and 1-6 vs. the Pac-10. That's right, the SEC's worst record against any one conference over the last four years comes against the Pac-10. Only LSU's victory against one of the worst Pac-10 teams in recent memory, this year's Arizona team, puts a W in the victory column against the Pac-10. Other losses were Auburn to USC (twice), Alabama to UCLA (twice) and Mississippi St. to Oregon (twice).

The Pac-10 was 12-12 vs. the Big Ten, 9-10 vs. the Big XII, 4-4 vs. Notre Dame, 3-4 vs. the Big East, 0-3 vs. the ACC and 6-1 vs. the SEC.

And the quality of teams the Pac-10 played was much better than the quality of teams that the SEC played. In the Big Ten, the Pac-10 played Michigan, Ohio St., Purdue and Wisconsin four times, Illinois three times, Iowa twice, and Penn St., Michigan St. and Indiana once. Only five of those games were because they met in bowl games The SEC played Michigan three times, Ohio St. twice, Penn St., Illinois and Minnesota once and Indiana four times. Eight of those games were played in bowl games. The only games scheduled against Big Ten competitition were the four times that Mississippi played Indiana, a time that Indiana went 12-34.

In the Big XII, the Pac-10 played Colorado six times, Kansas St. four times, Texas three times, Oklahoma twice, Nebraska, Oklahoma St., Baylor and Kansas once. Only five of those 19 games were the result of bowl games. The SEC played Oklahoma three times and Kansas St., Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Nebraska and Iowa St. once. Six of those nine games were bowl games.

The only BCS conference that the SEC routinely scheduled for games out of conference was against the ACC, and again, 12 of those games were rivalry games against members of that conference (South Carolina/Clemson, UGA/GTech, Florida/FSU). Throw in another six that were bowl games, and the SEC played only nine games against the ACC that weren't rivalry or bowl games.

Still, the record pretty much speaks for itself: the SEC's worst winning percentage against BCS conferences comes against the weak Pac-10. Try and spin that one away. When it comes right down to it, the Pac-10 will go out and play tough competition, and holds its own-- even its lesser teams. Arkansas has played only two BCS conference teams in the past four years, and those were both in bowl games. Mississippi St. has played only three, one of them being a victory over Texas A&M in a bowl game, and the other two losses to Oregon (Pac-10). Mississippi has also played only three BCS conference teams in the past four years, and two of those were in bowl games. Kentucky scheduled four games against Indiana, and that's the only OOC BCS teams they've played. Bama has played five OOC BCS games and is 1-4 (the victory was in a bowl game, the losses were scheduled OOC games).

In the Pac-10, Arizona (worst team in the Pac-10 the past four years) has played four OOC BCS teams, none in bowl games (Ohio St., Wisconsin, LSU and Purdue). Cal has played Illinois (twice), Rutgers, Baylor, Michigan St. and Kansas St. (no bowl games). Stanford has played Texas, Boston College (twice), Notre Dame three times and Georgia Tech (bowl game). Only Oregon St. has done what the SEC routinely does, and that is avoid BCS conference teams except in bowl games.

The fact that the Pac-10 is .500 in its out of conference BCS conference games is quite remarkable, considering that most of the games were not in bowl games. What is truly pathetic is how the SEC keeps claiming how superior they are, but against BCS conference competition, they have a losing record over the past four years. It's obvious that the conference inflates its importance by beating up on patsy OOC opponents and racking up victories that are then used to bolster its superiority claims. If every team has at least eight wins, it has to be a good conference, right? Uh-huh. Sure. The bowl record says they are 12-12, while the Pac-10 turned out to be 8-9.

 

[gman2]

scott:

i gotta say, your research in terms of specific numbers and records is impeccable. numbers would certainly support your claim

this is how i have, and always will, look at pac-10 vs the rest of the country (and maybe some agree/disagree) :

i think most people have issues with the pac-10 because -- and you can argue this, but its a little bit perception and a lot reality -- they play such a finesse game and their style of play is not as physical as the sec or big 10 or big 12.

now like i said, this is a subjective opinion. it cant be proved right, nor can it be proved wrong. its just the way i feel.

now i must say that usc is the exception. it was refreshing to see a team play physically and aggressively the way usc did all season. its clear carroll wants to instill toughness into a program that used to be pretty soft.

unfortunately, the rest of the pac-10 (except for maybe washington state's defense) is anything but physical.

that doesnt mean they arent capable of winning. in fact, oregon is one of my favorite teams in the country. but theyre not particularly down-and-dirty tough either.

so usc and wazzou are the only teams that are capable of grinding it out with east coast teams.

bottom line is this: pac 10 football is what it is. theyre never going to be a rugged conference. thats not necessarily a bad thing at all. in fact, their offenses are far more diverse and potent than a lot of east coast offenses.

its just that all sec/big10 arguments vs the pac10 are just pointless because so much of it is perception becoming reality.

but thats just me

 

[Scott4USC]

Good post G-Man, as always. I agree with you. Just because Pac 10 teams play different style, does not mean they cannot compete. Also, Pac 10 is not afraid to play quality OOC opponents and this conference beats up on each other which people do not seem to realize.

This perception of Pac 10 playing soft (USC happening to be in this conference) has made me a lot of money on USC. 2 years in a row I cleaned up on USC in bowl games because people thought USC was not as good as opponent, mainly becuase they play in the pac 10. Obviously people were wrong. I think I now lost all value betting on USC.

Thanks for the post, very well written and enjoyed reading it. I agreed with everything you said.

 

[gordon liddy]

SEC's non-conference scheduling may be weaker because their conference play is tough. PAC10 teams may can afford to have tougher non-conference schedules due to weak conference play.

SEC 5-2 Bowl Games + National Champ this year.

 

[Scott4USC]

gordon liddy

Re-Read my article. I knew someone would say that, and I showed that statement is false as well. Did you ever think that the conference teams are not that great? You think they are always great because of their over-all record. YOU WERE MISLEAD! Your statement is false because the SEC teams rake up easy wins, then it ranks them in top 25, gives you/public the perception they are really good. Also factor in the best teams do not often play each other because the conference is so big. I just laugh at everyone who thinks the SEC is such a superior conference. Numbers do not lie. Records do not lie. Look at the SEC record vs BCS teams. Look at their bowl record last 6 years. Read my write-up again, and I guarantee you will not think the SEC is such a superior conference.

If you read my write-up carefully, you would not have posted

SEC's non-conference scheduling may be weaker because their conference play is tough. PAC10 teams may can afford to have tougher non-conference schedules due to weak conference play.

 

[Kdogg21]

face it, the Pac10, is more like the Shit10...and your kind of contradicting yourself on the weak schedule. now if the AP is giving us a different perception of the SEC having 5 ranked teams in the top 25, maybe we should think twice about USC being number 1 than....

 

[Scott4USC]

You do not seem to understand how the system works. TO be ranked you need WINS. SEC plays crappy OOC schedule and racks up 3-4 easy wins every year. AS I PROVED.

Pac 10 generally plays a tougher OOC schedule and racks up early losses. You cannot be ranked top 25 if you have losses, correct? AS I PROVED.

Then factor in teams in SEC do not all play each other, and almost every year, top teams might skip each other. Happens all the time because SEC big conference. Therefore get more teams ranked. Very very easy to understand, why is it so difficult for you?

So if you think a conference is superiour for playing crappy OOC schedule, then feel free to think SEC is tough. However, i then went on to prove how the SEC has had little succuss against BCS competition and little succuss in bowl games (for people to consider them tough conference). That is to prove the argument of people saying the teams in the SEC are so tough that is why why play poor OOC schedule. I proved that wrong.

THEN, you say the PAC 10 is crappy conference, but then the PAC 10 beats up on the SEC every time. PAC 10 is not afraid to go out and play tough competition. Pac 10 does beat up on each other teams 1-10. That is a fact.

So where is your argument? You have none, you just have an opinion. Your ignorant if you still think SEC is superior to any conference after reading my writings. If you still think so, prove it? YOU CAN'T. Truth hurts sometimes and sorry to break your heart, you been duped on how strong of a conference the SEC is. Keep thinking PAC 10 sucks, because I continue to make huge $$$ because of that thinking.

 

[Mr Hockey]

In the end Scott, all that matters is that the SEC has more champions on the field in the last decade then the Pac 10 does. This isn't a coincidence either. The SEC is a tougher conference week in & week out against each other then the Pac 10 is as they physically beat each other up more then in the Pac 10 which is more of a finesse conference. I enjoy both conferences & especially the offense in the west coast but if I had to take a team with a title on the line especially in bad weather, I'd prefer a SEC team every time.

 

[Scott4USC]

I am simply stating why the SEC has so many teams ranked top 25. Also, this is clearly the SEC formula to get teams in the top 25 and teams to win the NC. I clearly showd that the SEC is not the best conference and is comparable to the Pac 10. I do not care for that formula and I am glad USC does not either. I want to EARN my Championships playing the best.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Yeah like how your team earned its title this year

Teams that win the national title earn it, what about that don't you get.

Is it any coincidence that the Pac 10 arranges solid ooc games? The Pac 10 is weaker then the SEC from top to bottom & quite frankly they need those ooc games in the current BCS formula as their conference isn't considered strong by many.

Why don't you stop ignoring the obvious? Go celebrate your paper championship some more.

 

[coot149]

SO JUST WHY DID THEY MAKE THE BCS?

SO JUST WHY DID THEY MAKE THE BCS?

Answer: to keep teams like USC, who plays nobody, to sneak in the title game.

I might be the biggest Miami fan around, but I know they play in a below average conference. The SEC, by FAR, is the toughest conference in college football.
WHY:
1)they have by far the best athletes- please argue this one, please
2)they have better coaching(as a whole) pete is good though
3)they have multiple styles- fun and gun to whatever the hell tuberville runs
4)THEY HAVE THE BEST FAN SUPPORT AND PLAY IN VERY HOSTILE STADIUMS

 

[Scott4USC]

coot149

I agree with you that the SEC has more fan support. Although, Pac 10 teams have "not" struggled playing teams in the SEC.

How come the Pac 10 has a better record head to head than the SEC?????

How come the Pac 10 has a better record vs top competition than the SEC????

How come the SEC is afraid to play tough competition????

Why is the Pac 10 not afraid to play tough competition????

How come the SEC does average in bowl games for being such a superior conference?????

SEC has more teams than the pac 10 so there "might" be more athletes in the NFL from the SEC. However, I would "not" be suprised if there were more athletes from the pac (despite have less teams) playing in the NFL than the SEC. Not suprised at all. I would be curious to know the #'s.

Pac 10 in my "opinion" has better offenses and offensive minded coaches. Who are the great coaches in the SEC??? Who? Top 3 coaches in the pac 10 are Carroll, Tedford, and Belotti. The Washington St. coach did damn good job his first year. Also a lot of the other teams have new coaches this year so it is question mark.

You need to read my write-up again. You obviously didn't the first time or you skimmed it. You would be ignorant to say the SEC is better than the Pac 10. You cannot say the SEC is superior after reading my write-up. But then again, I do not just say it, i prove it. You just say but have "nothing" to back up what you say. AGAIN, that is why it is a "Myth" why the SEC is a dominant conference. Try supporting your opinion.

The SEC, by FAR, is the toughest conference in college football.

This statement by you makes you look stupid and ignorant because what i wrote you cannot dispute. Facts are facts, and the SEC Dominance is a MYTH. Simple as that. Prove it otherwise, don't just voice your opinion with no support, especially when your posting it in a thread that proves that the SEC is no better than the pac 10.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Once again how many national titles has the Pac 10 won in the last 10-15 years?

People remember who won titles & the Pac 10 sure hasn't done much in that department of late now have they.

 

[Mr Hockey]

nm

 

[Mr Hockey]

http://www.shopncaasports.com/product.asp?pid=14938&sch=USC

http://www.shopncaasports.com/product.asp?pid=14946&sch=Event


I wonder what the difference between these products are from the official NCAA Sports Shop.

 

[mansa_musa]

The SEC w/ its better athletes & better coaches is still just 1-6 on the field against the Pac 10 this CENTURY!!!!

The BCS has shown that it rewards the best teams from the weakest conferences to play in its title game. That's why Florida St & Miami have been in that game so many times.

And speaking of the paper championship, LSU got its title because the coaches were contractually obligated to give it to them. That means that it was agreed to "on paper" that the winner of the BCS game would be awarded its trophy. LSU beat a team that failed to win a 12 team conference title. But, I can see why SEC fans would think that LSU is a true champion. They earned the first win over a Pac 10 team by an SEC team this century! Congrats!!!!

Scott put it there for you in writing. The SEC feasts on D-II & non conference lightweights. The next time a "tough" SEC team wins a game v a Pac 10 team on an SEC homefield will be the first time this century!!!

The Pac 10 plays a tough non-conf schedule to prepare for a tough conference slate. The SEC plays weaklings to build their win totals. If the SEC was so strong, it's teams would schedule tough games to prepare for conf play. That is much more logical than a weak conf playing tough non conf teams to prepare for a soft conf schedule. To prove my point, look at Florida. The Gators by far played the toughest non-conf schedule of any SEC team. They didnt beat any OOC opponent of significance (losses to Miami, Florida St & Iowa--wins v SJSU & FAMU) all season!! But that tough non-conf schedule prepared them to win @LSU, @Arkansas & v. Georgia.

All I can say to SEC fans is, can I please be your bookie!???! You fools!!!