Career situation question(another one)

NySportsfan

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It seems this guy hemispack has been doing this a lot asking for advice on things, and I've asked for it in the past about various things...I want to explain my situation briefly and vaguely and see what you guys would do.........Basically, I need to know how I should go about and approach somebody, that is in a position to help me obtain employment...A guy I work for at the country club, is high up at an Insurance company...I want to get an entry level job, and eventually work my way up to real estate appraiser.....should I......basically mention how I want to enter that industry, and if he wouldnt mind looking at my resume and helping me if I can, and basically add how I have always been interested in financial services, Im a fast learner, and how I am looking to get a foot in the door. I dont want to act as if I expect help, It's just that this is my best shot, I just dont know how to approach it subtely and hopefully get this guy to make a call or put a good word in for me that may not show up on my resume.....
Secondly, another resume question as a follow up to one a few weeks ago......I have been looking at chronological and functional resumes......I basically want to use the one that de-emphaizes my lack of college degree, but emphasizes my skills and previous work experience, plus an effecticve cover letter...Hopefully dogface responds again or others who are adept with these things, Id really love the extra help from those of you with more experience......Thanks a lot as always, I think we're turning this place into fawkin monster.com, LOL but I truly appreciate it

Michael
 

skulldog

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Mike, here we go again. The hell w/the insurance guy, if you want to be a real estate appraiser, then check the laws in the state you reside in and take the course. In Ma, you sign up for the course and you become a trainee then while your putting in the time, hours schooling, you can be working w/an appraisal firm.

I'm sure it's easier in most other states.

GL
 

TJBELL

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Re: Career situation question(another one)

NySportsfan said:
mention how I want to enter that industry, and if he wouldnt mind looking at my resume and helping me if he can, and basically add how I have always been interested in financial services.

Hell Yes! Be straight forward and maintain eye contact. You have NOTHING to lose with this guy!

REMEMBER: Now a days, it's not always WHAT you know, it's WHO you know!!!

Go for it! You may regret NOT asking someday!!!!

GL!!!
 

NySportsfan

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skulldog, I know, But Im fawkin young and not in a set career, thats why I keep jumping around......The Residential/Commercial real estate appraiser job is after like 4-5 yrs working as a clerk making 30-35k, and would be for the Ins.Company, but taking the courses and working for an appraiser firm outside of Insurance is an option also..........TJ, Yea I think I have to just flat out ask him, Hey, can you help get my foot in the door, I really need the help, I have the ability I just need someone to believe in me and help me get a start........That has to be the best way to go........I was going to fax him a letter I hand wrote, or call, as opposed to bothering him at the golf course obviously when he;s there on leisure, but I was thinking I'd mention just how I had something I wanted to discuss with him, and whether it'd be ok to call him at home. In persons easiest, I considered email but thats kind of tough, you cant always get your point across.....Hopefully I get some good advice, Thanks

Mike
 

ryson

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NySportsfan said:
I was going to fax him a letter I hand wrote, or call, as opposed to bothering him at the golf course obviously when he;s there on leisure, but I was thinking I'd mention just how I had something I wanted to discuss with him, and whether it'd be ok to call him at home. In persons easiest, I considered email but thats kind of tough, you cant always get your point across.....Hopefully I get some good advice, Thanks

Mike

Do it face to face, been involved with many deals that were done while golfing...EXCELLENT place to do business.
 

NySportsfan

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Ryson, Thanks a lot...........Im certainly going to hint I have something I want to discuss with him, but I dont know if I should go into MY whole story when HE is enjoying a leisurely round of golf, plus I dont really want the other guys to hear, as it isnt their business, Thats the only sticky thing, Maybe hint at it, and then see if I can talk after the round to him about it, Just a little tough, But face to face probably is the way to go, followed up with a phone call, need some more comments guys, you guys are all older than me and have had more jobs than me

Mike
 

dogface

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Michael-

You asked so I shall respond! LOL! Let me put things in a different perspective before I dispense my thoughts.

But here are two questions everyone should ask IMO when searching for a career or a career change?

What do I want? and
How do I get what I want?

You must answer those first in your own mind before soliciting advice. Why you might ask? Simply put to clear up any questions you might have pertaining to the situation, aslo as a guide to your thought process on what you would do. (It demonstrates your ability to assess an issue or problem and then come up with solutions to solve it.) You problem is acquiring a job in a certain field with limited education and no degree.

You potential for solutions are prominient people that you are familiar with, and...

Let me read your thoughts, if too personal you may e-mail as well. I am in and out today, o replies either here or e-mail may and will be intermittent.


TSI
 

Nick Douglas

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dogface is right on target. By far the biggest struggle most people (including myself) have is deciding what they want. Once you actually know what you want and are committed to it, the second question is then pretty important, too.
 

NySportsfan

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dogace, I can answer those.........What I want, is an entry level type clerical position in Insurance with the potential for further education and advancement.......How am i going to get it............Speak to my contact, and send a resume, and hope he can put a good word for me, or there is something he can do to help me get an interview and a foot in the door, I am supremely confident in my ability to learn and process things and learn quickly that I can take it from there, but passing the initial barrier and getting the start is the hardest part, IMO, Looking forward to your response and everyone elses

Mike
 

dogface

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I assume then you are looking at an entry level position with the hopes that while doing that position, they will also provide some payment for your education as a benefit?

If so that is a good strategy getting educated on the companies dime, but it does have it's pitfalls with time concerns. I think I am correct in earlier posts stating you are not the college typoe, just didn't enjoy it etc. correct? What would make the difference in the next educational venture, understadning that education provides a stepping stone. (I understand it is not necessary, but I will admit it is helpful with opening doors.)

Put the resume on hold when dealing with this individual, you seem genuinely impressed with this individual and you would also like to tap him as a resource. So let's not put the cart before the horse. I am a believer that you earn the right for information or help, and then the "good" stuff comes later.

I would first find someone phone book etc., or somebody out of this guys realm of contacts and seek to get a "job shadow" experience with a professional that is doing exactly what you are doing. Spend a day with that person to see what the daily tasks are, (even if you think you know) and then truly get a glimpse of what his or her life is like. During this experience you then will have the opportunity to not only ask questions about this person's background, their likes and dislikes, and how they got into the industry, but it will provide a road map for your discussions with the person you are mentioning. (This shows that you are not the average joe just trying to break in somewhere off of someone's coattails and shows you are willing to "DO" what is necessary to find out about the job, and potentially earn that type of position.

This will also provide a basis for starting and holdong a conversation with this individual, and ultimately getting you what you want. I would invite him to a liunch that you of course will be paying for, and state something to the fact that you respect what he does, you are actively researching this career, and that you would value the time to be able to pick his brain. Once you get to that point, you spill the beans. Tell him about what you have been doing to research the position, that you even went as far to do some job shadowing (I recommned a couple) and that you think you have the skill set to be succesful in that career, Ask him where youu should turn for more information (thus getting those all important contacts with his name as a referrral, etc. such as: Mr. Jones mentioned that I should contact you pertaining a potential career doing.... I would value the opportunity to sit down with you and discuss....) I am sure you get the picture of where I am going. You are basically selling yourself at each and every meeting, bringing up experiences each time that match the qualifications fo rthat position. You are also building up a network of contacts for finding the position you want, and at the same time checking out all of the opportunities they have, without bewing overbearing or sounding as if you need a handout.

Bottom line in this game it is all about:

1) Networking
2) Networking
3) Networking

And each of those steps requires you to sell yourself each and every time! There is one thing I tell people whether I am having someone shadow me, or I am conducting sales training for companies and that is this: "If they like you, they will buy form you!" Period, you people that you meet in my little advice above is an opportunity to sell yourself, your thoughts, and you aspirations. Be honest with it, and show your dedication.

One last quote for you:

If you strive for perfection, you will CATCH excellence!
- Dave Pomije
Founder
Funco. Inc.

Good luck with this, I hope it helps, any more questions or advice let me know!

TSI
 

NySportsfan

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Dogface, great stuff man, very great..........A few comments on what you said...As far as my education, I was looking to advance to positions that didn't require a college degree, and education-wise I meant really getting trained within the company to learn how to do the specific jobs that would advance my career....I dont see why going back to get a degree in some bs discipline is worth it, but I guess it still helps on a resume and all that...
Here's the thing about the contact and all of that.......It's one guy, that I know from the golf course, who's very high up at an insurance company........I don't have anyone that I can shadow otherwhise unfortunately, what I do have is job descriptions, qualifications, and what's expected, by reading online about various positions, So I am armed with the aim that I can outline a clear goal to him of how I intend to start and how i intend to work myself up and to what area I'd particularly like to strive towards, I dont know if that makes any sense to you........The question for me is how to approach the guy, A lunch cannot work b/c he is working I'm sure, I only see him at the golf course saturdays/sundays when I work my 2nd job.........I dont want to go through my song and dance while Im at the course, as he's there to golf and I dont wanna impose on him.......I figured before his round or after, I'd say how theres something I wanna discuss, and whether I can call at home.............This is my only contact, and the guy took a liking to me and hopefully believes in my ability and ambitions............The best thing would be if I somehow got him to make a call, and get me an interview etc by vouching for me, but we'll see, It's tough.............I also have to explain to him how I didnt finish college and why (It was a year ago, and there were some circumstances) and how I am very self taught and a fast learner and know quite a bit about financial related things.......Sorry if I dont make sense, I hope to send you a resume dogface and have you help me, do employers frown upon a functional resume? I heard they do, but not positive, Thanks everyone, sorry for my choppy typing

Mike
 

Nick Douglas

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Just as an aside, NYSportsFan...

Getting a degree is always worth it. I mean, if you goal is to make money, that is. In almost any situation there is a glass cieling that you will hit without a degree. Of course there are exceptions to this rule, but unless you are exceptional (Bill Gates, et. al.) or you have the capital to start your own business, get the dang degree. It will be worth it in the long run.
 

NySportsfan

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Nick, I know that. I know I might be eliminating some avenues, but a lot of good real estate jobs for insurance companies (appraisers, etc) can make 75-80k eventually with 5-6 yrs under your belt, I'd gladly sign for that, sure I could never be the ceo or anything making a million, but regardless. I may go back to college at some point to finish if my boss said specifically you'd make x more money if you go and get x position, but as long as Im doing ok I dont feel the inclination...........My college degree is reading the god damn new york times business section every day, and money magazine, and books about the supreme court, politics, history and anything else. They key to education is one's drive, I can learn more on my own than in any classroom and that's true for anyone I believe, it's just a travesty the stigma that's attached to non-degree holders, as if everyone's inferior, In some cases they are knowledge wise, but not always, and often times the person without the degree has worked 10x harder to get where they are, and have a better work ethic, Just my opinion, but thats off the subject

Mike
 

saint

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Nick Douglas said:
Just as an aside, NYSportsFan...

Getting a degree is always worth it. I mean, if you goal is to make money, that is. In almost any situation there is a glass cieling that you will hit without a degree. Of course there are exceptions to this rule, but unless you are exceptional (Bill Gates, et. al.) or you have the capital to start your own business, get the dang degree. It will be worth it in the long run.


Quite possibly the first statement I've agreed with Nick Douglas in a while.
 

saint

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NySportsfan said:
Nick, I know that. I know I might be eliminating some avenues, but a lot of good real estate jobs for insurance companies (appraisers, etc) can make 75-80k eventually with 5-6 yrs under your belt, I'd gladly sign for that, sure I could never be the ceo or anything making a million, but regardless. I may go back to college at some point to finish if my boss said specifically you'd make x more money if you go and get x position, but as long as Im doing ok I dont feel the inclination...........My college degree is reading the god damn new york times business section every day, and money magazine, and books about the supreme court, politics, history and anything else. They key to education is one's drive, I can learn more on my own than in any classroom and that's true for anyone I believe, it's just a travesty the stigma that's attached to non-degree holders, as if everyone's inferior, In some cases they are knowledge wise, but not always, and often times the person without the degree has worked 10x harder to get where they are, and have a better work ethic, Just my opinion, but thats off the subject
Mike


You're right, your best education you will receive is outside the classroom. With that said, your version of a college degree won't hold up on a resume. Formality or not, it is necessary if you have the means. About making 75-80k in 5-6 years, I'm not so sure that is a realistic statement.
 

NySportsfan

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Yea, sadly my idea wont hold up saint, you're right. Keep in mind where I live and may work Saint, it is not north carolina, when I say the salaries. Long Island, NY is very expensive, I live in a cheap place b/c it's all I can afford, but the cost of living isnt even comparable to to north carolina, trust me, it's all relative. Jobs pay well in NYC, but the cost of livings insane, jobs pay less other places, but the cost of livings less. Keep in mind, 75-80 was the MEDIAN of real estate commercial/residential appraisers in NYC, so people make more or less, thats the middle, and per salary.com, It said usually has 5-6 years experience, unless they mean 6 yrs as an appraiser, in which case that would be like 10 yrs to start at the bottom, I dont know. It's just a damn shame how everyone is so hell bent on college and education, for some people they simply dont respond and are brighter than a lot of people in school. I think basically colleges are fawkin businesses plain and simple they exist more to make money than to educate people their moneys worth. This is true b/c of students getting nickled and dimed from everything from books to food to shampoo, Trust me. It's supply and demand. A college degree is demanded for positions, people will go to college, If it wasnt people wouldnt go and the colleges would be broke. Maybe Im cynical but thats how I feel, I never proclaimed to be a genious and there are some things I have no clue about, but thats life, Theres 24 hrs in a day, you dont have time to learn about everything you'd like to, Thanks for the replies

Mike
 

saint

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Good luck either way Mike. I am aware of the cost of living up there, I grew up in NJ and spent 18 years there about 25 miles from the city. It may be a bitch now, but a couple of years of your life getting a degree will seem like nothing down the line, you will be glad you went back. I've always respected people who went back, it's hard to once you get out into the real world.
 

NySportsfan

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Saint, I forgot you grew up in NJ, so you know. The bottom line is, 75k in ny or new jersey is like making 50k somewhere else basically. You CANNOT find a house under 300k really anywhere in long island metro area for anything decent, In most places you can get fawkin 2000+ square feet, a swimming pool, etc. it is hard to go back, I think it's only worth it if there are direct results. I just hate how people assume you shouldnt be hired b/c you have no "degree" Why doesnt everyone take an aptitude exam, the person doing the hiring wouldnt know who went to school and who didnt, and whoever knows more and has better job experience gets the damn job....But the supply and demand rules, colleges are businesses, and without them, these liberal, professors who half the time teach literature from 1700 because they dont have anything else to use their english degree for, wouldnt have jobs. It's a stigma that somebody made, and It's grossly unfair, but it wouldn't bother me one bit what people said, it's only about employment and solely employment, Still off topic, but anyway, wanted to say that

Mike
 

saint

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Yeah I know, the cost of living up there compared to most places is so different, i don't think people truly comprehend it when they hear it. I think you have to live there to see. From the property taxes to houses and food etc etc, it gets ridiculous.
 

dogface

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I must respond on the college issue...

I will preface it with yes I do have a B.S. and a M.Ed. WHOOPIE! That's about all I have to say about my degrees, but while instructing students, and conducting training seminars (sales) etc., I will share with you the importance of a degree that sometimes younger individuals fail to see.

A degree provides opportunities that those without, may not get a chance to experience. It does not gurantee success (that's the individual) it does not gurantee money (that's your talent and work ethic), it does not gurantee a happy life or lifestyle (again it's all the individual).

But here is what it does provide for those willing to take the risk:

It provides the prospective employer an opportunity to see the following:

Maturity: A minimum of 4 years after HS you are a much more talented decision maker, you tend to take less unwarranted risks, you lead with your head, and demonstrate that emotions will not be your determining factor in decisions. (Heck, if you are looking for a parallel, look at today's professional athletes. Most need at lleast those 4 years of maturity to even provide them a chance at being successful on the next level. Sure their are excpetions, but divide those numbers by the number of athletes in a sport and include those seniors that come out of HS, and you will double recognize how special these athlete's are.)

Goal attainment: This allows you to stress on paper and in interviews that you set a goal for yourself (degree in 4 years with a minor) and you stuck with it and achieved your goal. Go one step further and make your GPA a goal, another point to discuss talking about your successes. Another key point is if you paid for college yourself, without scholarship, etc. You proved you will stop at nothing to achieve your goal, no matter how much your situation sucks! (Trust me I know this one well, I am the only person within my entire extended family with a degree, much less an advanced degree, all financed by myself! It sucked, and that's putting it nicely!)

Seperation: A college degree seperates you from the rest of the general public. (Keep in mind I am talking about the benefits of collge, and not critiquing those that didn't go. My sister did not go, she makes six digits a year, has 2 homes, and just got married at the age of 37.) As of a few years ago, I would have to research more for the newest numbers, but less than 12% of the nation has a degree. Let me state that again: Less than 12% of the nation has a degree!! Many start, seldom finish. It truly weeds people out, and separates people. Another astonishing fact: 50% of all College Freshman drop out of college within their first year, and another 50% of those left are gone within 2 years. You can see why the numbers are so low. But everyone talks about college, but trust menot very many go or finish. If you throw in an Advanced degree into the equation that number is less than 3% of the population. So when looking at these situations you can see that there is quite a disparity and there is quite a bit of value ina degree. This does not take into consideration the glass ceiling for those without a degree. Does not take into consideration those in their 40's going back to scholl because they have to, to support their family and move up the pay scale. All decisions that are much harder later on!

It shows the ability to learn: I will be quite frank with this next statement, and it is a difficult one to take. Not everyone has the ability to learn. A degree shows you that you can learn a variety of information in a variety of different settings. Almost anyone can read a newspaper, magazine, or articles. But what are you learning, and how can you demonstrate it? That's a key question? How can you demonstrate the knowledge that you have! Education is more than regurgitation of information, or memorize and equation. It takes analysis, and then synthesis. Most people can analyze, fewer can synthesize. That is what a degree can do for you, it gives tabgible evidence that you can learn, you can analyze, and you can syntheize the information. Whether or not you od that in real life is up to your passion for succes and your internal drive. That can be said for all of the components above, but that is an individual quality that cannot be learned.

I will also share this with you: I am currently back into Pharmaceuticals, and they will not interview people without a degree. Much less they will hire only people that have a degree and over a 3.0 GPA, actually I find it much higher in real life. Sure this is not your intent to go into, but it shows the value of a degree. Now here is another number in my scenarion: The new company I am with just did an expansion and hired 350 new reps...take a guess at how many resumes and applications came in for these positions: Over 38,000. Even with a degree, you stil have to seperate yourself, but at least it gives you a chance.


Any more questions feel free to ask, and I will do my best to answer. This is not a slight on anyone, but when dispensing advice I wanted to share my belief on how important I feel college is. In case it is asked I graduate HS with about a 2.7, I was in it for the social aspects, woman, and sports. So I wasn't necessarily college material, but I did have abilties! I worked hard in college for my degrees and honors received!

I hope this helped, otherwise I spent a lot of time working out my fingers!

TSI
 
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