Career situation question(another one)

[countinguy]

Re: Re: Career situation question(another one)

Re: Re: Career situation question(another one)

Hell Yes! Be straight forward and maintain eye contact. You have NOTHING to lose with this guy!

REMEMBER: Now a days, it's not always WHAT you know, it's WHO you know!!!

Go for it! You may regret NOT asking someday!!!!

GL!!!

TJ has this right!

I have been self employed for 17 yrs now, and it does mean a lot who u know, the best guy for the job does not always get it. And a lot of times it has nothing to with the bid which has nothing to do w/u. but alot w/me.

The main thing is get urself in the door, and sell sell sell. Be POSITIVE and I mean POSITIVE, don't let them see u sweat. I don't give a damn if u a highschool dropout going against a college degree student, if u don't have good self esteem for urself u will not get the job. I am one ugly dude and I can still sell well. I always bs w/every diff business owner I work w/most of them are men so easy to bs about sports. If ur boss is quiet and not friendly u have to find something personal he likes and break his silence and get the person to crack a smile, and u will never lose my friend. I have at least 5 selling interviews a months and I am getting better and better at this.

Also SOMETHING ELSE!!!!!!!!!! FIRM HANDSHAKE!!!

I have people working under me also, and that always leaves a good impression on me!!

 

[dogface]

Re: Re: Re: Career situation question(another one)

Re: Re: Re: Career situation question(another one)

I am one ugly dude and I can still sell well.

LMAO! I think your cute!

 

[countinguy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Career situation question(another one)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Career situation question(another one)

LMAO! I think your cute!

:142smilie :142smilie :142smilie

 

[NySportsfan]

dogface, I cannot and will not really argue with your points. I think it's a shame how every kid is shoveled and pushed towards college, when as you say 12% will finish, the rest dropping out or other things. All one hears though when they want to quit, as I heard was "you're gonna be a failure" "you're wasting an opportunity" "you're missing the best yrs of your life" Meanwhile, None of that occured for me. Not everybody is cut out for college, I am not/was not really cut out for it, I was always a self starter entreprenurial guy, I read everything I can get my hands on and always try to learn things. Of course, it only matters what employers think, we all know this, unless you're fortunate enough to own your own enterprise like countinguy or others. I'll comment on the specific points you mentioned....

Maturity- Yes and no. I think those without degrees, the ones who are smart I mean and work their asses off to succeed and not sit home on welfare like some, Are mature and many have/had to support themselves and learn at a young age. College is some maturity, but it also is a load of bs in that it harbors cheating, cutting corners and other things b/c kids feel the pressure of getting the almighty degree and not getting thrown out of school for flunking out.

goals- yea, I hear ya with paying yourself. I'm fortunate in that I didnt have to pay for school, if I did I wouldnt have gone at all, I did go for a period. And, an employer would never know you paid yourself unless you told them. Me personally with my own biases, am more impressed with people who did not get a degree or go at all and became wealthy. it is so much harder, and it shows they took the harder road and still made it. of course one could say the harder road is toughing out college, thats the other side of it, I just feel the other way, But I certainly by no means would discourage my child from going to college, I'd encourage it obviously and do not criticze people for getting as many degrees as they want to help themselves, it's an individuals choice...Amen to your sister, that's great, and I'm sure she's happy as a clam, she's married, owns 2 homes, and lived life how she wanted I assume, maybe I'm wrong.

2 more responses........I disagree about one more thing.........School does NOT show the ability to learn necessarily. Hell, I know people that are doing quite well now, they got through college using cheat notes in science classes they hated and didnt want to be in but had to, and they got through fine. Most classes at least that I saw, you take notes in a class, and answer a bunch of multiple choice questions on a test, oir some short answer questions, then usually move on to the next mundane task that day or mundane subject. You think a few years later you remember all of those little facts? I doubt it.......also, not everyone can read a newspaper or magazine. The NY times is on a high school reading level, most "uneducated" and lower class people read the post or daily news, just look at the ads, the Times caters to a higher educated crowd, and therefore more is to be learned, One doesnt have to know about everrything, the bottom line is, It depends on the person. I'm not surprised your company wont look at anyone w/o a degree, you're not the only one. but, I'm sure it pays pretty well and in high demand, so you can afford to do that. The problem is, i'm sure there's a high school graduate somewhere who didnt go to college, who has the personality and is smart, and if you gave them a little training, they'd be a tremendous salesman, but you'll never know. I know a guy that had a 1560 sat score, can do 3 digits x 3 digits math in his head within seconds, ala 288x185 and he can tell you pretty quick off hand, and he dropped out of high school.........There's no answer to any of this, Connections and who you know play a massive, massive part though, if you're fortunate to have someone believe in you and give you a foot in the door, It's a tremendous advantage, but it's up to you to take it from there with your ability

Mike

 

[dogface]

As in oour discussions in hte past, you know I understand your stance. Hell, their are millions of people without college that have been successful, I listed my sister as one of them... but to make sure we are on the same page. The points listed above are what companies and employers get out of a person with a college degree. Those are the things "assumed" if you will.

The other issue is we could point and counterpoint the whole issue until it was dead, but their are distinct advatnatages to a piece of paper, that does not mean you are guaranteed success because success is A) Relative to the individual and B) Determined by the individual.

We can agree to disagree about college shows you the ability to learn. Although compnaies hiring belief 100% in this, I can concur. It allows you in many different venues to be able to demonstrate your knowledge. Sure people can cheat, some have better recall than others, but they are still demonstrating what they can do. What does reading hte New York times teach you, and how can you demonstrate it? It keeps you updated on things that are happening, but nothing that you are doing.

As for people being terrific sales people without degrees, no doubt. Some people have a gift, smartest people in the world can't sell. To me sales is all about personality and the ability to accept rejection. To be successful you need both, not a degree. However a degree gives you the opportunity to learn more about the craft, and the tools that are used to enhance the craft.

I also would be very careful of knocking degrees when interviewing (I know you wouldn't) but I mean I wouldn't say that it it just wasn't in you. I would dare to wager that most of them have degrees and if you hint towards you being just as well off as someone that does have a degree maybe setting you up for a fall.

I wish you the best!

TSI

 

[NySportsfan]

Dogface, good reply, truly appreciate it. A few more additional responses to this if I may

1) I agree, employers value a degree generally and that's what matters. My position would be a little easier if I were an entrepenur, as that's truly the avenue where most of the people without formal education made a killing, but there are still people high up in industries, ie of hotels and restaurants that didnt go to school, But by and large you're right of course, It shows employers something I presume, I personally think it's more of a smoke screen than an actual certificiate of you being some kind of allegedly much smarter person or can necessarily do a given job better, but that's just my opinion, I certainly cannot change some eployers perceptions about degree and what they represent, I think the whole way people look at things need to be revamped, but that's way out of my hands. Success ultimately comes down to the person, no doubt, but the hardest part, assuming you have the ability to do a job, is getting the first chance, because after that your ability and hard work can carry you through the day

2) Yea, college shows you can learn, I guess. But generally it's spitting back information, at least what I've seen. College is really depending on the person, you can cheat and go through 4 yrs and get a degree, or you can study molecular biology or quantum physics and be a genious if you're so inclined, It's all dependent on the individual of course. The NY times doesnt teach you how to learn per say, but it teaches you knowledge. To me, knowledge is key in this world. The more you know about writing, speaking, politics, history, the stock market, hell even knowing how to golf for social events, all help. You can get a lot of that from your own determination, it just wouldnt be shown to employers I guess, Unless you get a more personal interview

3) I would NEVER knock a degree during an interview, you can never ever bite the hand that potentially feeds you so to speak. I believe in a lot of different things, but I know what I can say and what I can't, That's invaluable. The one other thing I wanted to ask you, was if you were in my shoes, what would you do about that thing, not having the degree. Should I volunteer a story of why I dont have it, or should I wait for him to pose the question of asking, and then me answer..........I was going to play the financial angle, say I couldnt afford it and I was helping support my family, or my brother or my aunt and uncle, But even though they couldnt prove that, I wouldnt feel right lying right off the bat, but they might have more respect for me If I had a reason. I would never say schools not important, or it "sucks" or another immature answer, you'd hafta be dumb to do that. Additionally, I took business and related courses in high school, and a few in college when I was there, should I list that i took those courses next to the school I was it, I think it could help. I dont know if people put high school on their resume, dont think thats too impressive, but Ive heard for sure it's better to put my 1 yr of college than zero, even though they may call me a "drop out" it's better to have any amount of education, even courses that didnt result in me having a degree, can help me at a given job........Thanks for the responses, very thoughtful and insightful, I respect my elders, and certainly enjoy people that write well and communicate well, It's nice to see and that all that common

Mike