Kobe better than Michael Jordan.....

[MR. LOCK]

NOT!!

If anyone every compares Kobe with Michael must be on DOPE!

Kobe gets a little pressure and he fold like a lawn chair. He plays in spurts and is a bad defender. He doesn't have the killer instinct.

Micheal never ever took a night off. Rememeber that game he had the Flue with a 100+ fever and dropped 40 points. He was double and tripled teamed and still could get his shot off. He had the best hang time that anyone could ever have. Also, he played defense. Last but not least Michael had the killer instinct. Kobe doesn't.

Conclusion, If anyone tries to compare Kobe with Michael have them piss in a cup. I bet it turns BLUE!

Mr. Lock

 

[jr11]

Agreed somewhat. Kobe isn't a bad defender. He is struggling to beat anyone of the dribble and if he does someone is there waiting. Jordan would just go to the post and Kobe can't do that. Prince is making it hard for him because he is so long and Kobe can't really get around him. He is trying, but just can't get it done. Kobe is good, but he is no Jordan...noone will ever be.

jr11

 

[ezpickin]

You boys are getting a little carried away...Kobe has so much more on his mind than Jordan ever did, and imo, all these "off court" antics are finally taking their toll...not only the Colorado rape trial, but it is also no secret Kobe will not be in LA next year...Kobe is an amazing talent and is still VERY young...at THIS stage in both of their careers there was VERY LITTLE if ANY difference in the two...give Kobe his dues, he is still a premier talent whose place in the books is yet to be defined....

 

[jr11]

You boys are getting a little carried away...Kobe has so much more on his mind than Jordan ever did, and imo, all these "off court" antics are finally taking their toll...not only the Colorado rape trial, but it is also no secret Kobe will not be in LA next year...Kobe is an amazing talent and is still VERY young...at THIS stage in both of their careers there was VERY LITTLE if ANY difference in the two...give Kobe his dues, he is still a premier talent whose place in the books is yet to be defined....

ezpickin, where in my post did I knock Kobe? I agree that he is a tremendous talent, but nobody will ever be Jordan. I have to think that there are plenty of people that would agree with me. Again, when Jordan struggled from the field, he just went to the post. Kobe, in at least the games I have watched, doesn't do that...he just keeps firing.

jr11

 

[Bombs]

Jordan learned the postup game late in his career, he certainly had nothing resembling one at age 24. It came along really in full force when he made his first comeback.

Problem with Kobe is he is a pouter. They were both selfish, but Jordan not a pouter. That just seems like immaturity to me, and it can likely change.

 

[Scott4USC]

Kobe is only 25 years old. Enough said.

 

[bett4u]

Us Lakers fans love Kobe. He is a phenom, but you won't even see die hard Laker fans that know the game make those remarks. It's unfair to any athlete in history to have to be compared to Jordan. Jordan is Jordan. It was his intangibles that made him so different. He played as if he was a home less bum looking for food. I have never seen any athlete to play with such desperation of a win every single night. Like Charles Barkley said, "Jordan's willingness to win is not heart anymore. He has a serious mental sickness to win. It's an addiction. His will to win is not normal Everyone says it's heart. But, it's not. Michael has a mental problem."

No one knew him better than Barkley. It is so funny after game 2 people were talking about Kobe vs Jordan after Kobe made that shot. Jordan did that almost every other night. I give the Pistons credit, but cannot believe Kobe cannot get great looks at the basket or to create space. What made Jordan so awesome was his ability to create space. He could get a good look at the basket from any angle. People forget how incredible Jordan was even at the age of 40 last year. The man scored over 40 points five times and had a game over 50 points. That's crazy. How bout his game winner in the all star game? Of course it was spoiled by going into OT. But, at the age of 40 he knew the game so well that he could get great looks without having to relie on athletic ability.

 

[Hoops]

Kobe doesn't play defense?! WTF...he's been first team all-defense multiple times. He still have over 10 years of basketball left, so of course you can't compare him to Jordan's complete body of work. But at this point in his career, Kobe is the more accomplished player.

 

[Scott4USC]

Well said Hoops. How can anybody compare Jordan and his career to Kobe who is only 25 years old. Not fair at all.

If you are focusing on Kobe's poor performance in this series, take a closer look why. He has Prince (a great defender) who is what, 6.9 and even longer arms. Kobe cannot get a great look from outside but Kobe can drive past him. But if Kobe drives past him, Detroit sends another great defender to guard him and stop him. Sometimes you see 3 and even 4 guys surrounding Kobe in the lane. Kobe often dishes out to teamates who just continue to miss wide open treys. Take a closer look as to why Kobe is struggling in this series and tip your hat off to Detroit and their strategy. But please take nothing away from Kobe. Kobe is still getting his shots off (but very difficult shots) and they are just not going in. Maybe he is just not on his game. Jordan always had great role players he could dish off too that WOULD make the open shots and burn another team. Why people don't see this or understand this is beyond me.

 

[jr11]

[ But at this point in his career, Kobe is the more accomplished player. [/B]

Disagree with that. You really can't look at his age some much as he (Kobe) has played now eight seasons. Jordan was in the midst of winning there championships in row. Please always remember, Jordan did not have Shaq to carry the load when he had an off night. If Jordan didn't do it offensively, it didn't get done. Yea, Pippen was an all around great but certainly not an offensive juggernaut. And the Bulls had great roll players and spot up shooters, but not Shaq. Jordan vs. Kobe, after eight seasons, who would you take if you had the first draft pick? More accomplished, don't see it here.

You mean to tell me also, that the Knicks didn't play good defense back then too. Kobe might have shit himself after he got hammered against them.


jr11

 

[Irish]

Just laughing to my self about Kobe being compared to Jordan. MJ had Bill Cartwright, Kobe has Shaq???? Kobe has played 8 seasons in the NBA, after 8 season Jordan was twice the player kobe. Kobe has said that his biggest shot ever was the shot he hit to beat Hamilton?s High school team in the championship. C'mon... I was surprise Hamilton didn't fire his NCAA national Championship at him. Kobe is a great player but MJ he is not close. Kobe has a lot on his mind with his trial and all, but Jordan had a gambling controversy and affair he dealt with while he played. I'm a die hard Celtics fan but I have to give Credit where it is do. Compare Kobe to Clyde Drexler or someone that is very good but don't compare him to MJ.
This debate hold no water just as the James vs. Melo rivalry is being compare to that of Bird and Magic????? Just wait till Kobe doesn't have shaq, put him on a team like the Magic and you'll see he is just as good as T-Mac because he will score but they won't win. That?s what separates Jordan from all else he elevated the players around him to greatness!

 

[Hoops]

I am a huge Jordan fan..best player I've seen...but ever hear of Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant? They weren't that bad of players in their prime and might have had a little something to do with the Bulls title runs.

 

[bett4u]

Scott

Scott

Take a closer look as to why Kobe is struggling in this series



That is your statement above. Look at the word struggling you used to describe Kobe in a CHAMPIONSHIP series. Imagine using the word struggling and Jordan in the same sentence in an NBA championship? You cannot even use an age excuse for Kobe no more. This is his 4th NBA Finals.

Man why do people forget with short term memory. Legends are made by people like Jordan when NO ONE even knew there was a basketball team in Chicago. To become the elite you have to build the team around you. Just think Kobe's not even the best player on his team. Look the legend that's really growing is the Shaquille O'Neal legacy. He is playing unreal this series. He has 3 rings and another phenomenal performance. What makes him so special? He proved he could do it else where. He took the expansion ass Orlando Magic to the Finals. So, just with that fact it's obvious that Kobe has 3 rings because of Shaq. Kobe is great. He is a phenom. I am a huge Kobe fan, but also a fan of the game and to ever compare him to Jordan is an insult to the game. Compare him to others, but don't use short term memory. How soon people forget 23's dominance. You just can't go to a loaded team and become the best ever. You have to start from scratch. Jordan's legacy goes well beyond what these stars do today. Jordan saved basketball in Chicago. He came to a horrible organization and was the savior of the Bulls. Also the NBA was nervous how they would replace Dr J, Magic, and Bird as they were tailing off in their careers.Jordan answered them all. Look at T-Mac and these other clowns. They go to a bad team and organization and they have no clue or idea how to turn them into a winning team. They just complain and cry. People like Jordan saw it as a challenege. Look at Mario Lemieux in hockey. The guy goes to the Penguins. The sorry ass Penguins. No one knew hockey there. They were the worst team every year and were 80% sure they would move to Hartford until Mario Lemieux saved the city. That's a legend. That's a savior. When not only you're great, but so great that you turn the team into a championship team and you save the team. I don't want to see Kobe ever leave our Lakers. But, I love Kobe so much that I think if he ever wants to become a legend he needs to go to a team that is struggling. A team that he will be the heart and center. And the one thing please don't ever forget is the fact that Jordan was the main guy on his team and Kobe isn't. Jordan saw double teams his entire career and even triple teams. Kobe always had the benefits of never being doubled because it was Shaq who would get doubled 80% of the time.

This is why Larry Brown is a genius. You wanna know why. Larry Brown faced the Lakers before and he got killed in 5 games when he was with the Sixers. Just think of what adjustments he has done this time? Think about this now. Larry Brown knew that Shaq has always been successful even with double teams on him and all double teaming Shaq does is create foul troubles for defenders. Notice Ben Wallace hasn't had foul trouble yet. Now what was the genius of Larry Brown? He knew Kobe Bryant has never faced defensive heavy pressure for 48 minutes cause the defensive pressure was always on Shaq. Larry Brown surprised everyone by focusing more on Kobe than Shaq and it HAS worked. He knew Kobe never had to work this hard EVER. And Kobe looks so lost and confused out there. Just remember this performance. This is what would happen to Kobe if he was in Jordan's role with the Bulls. Kobe never faced full time double teaming until now and unlike Jordan he hasn't proven that he can't be stopped. This series is showing how to stop Kobe Bryant, but while for 13 years every week there was the debate "how do you stop Michael?" You couldn't double team Jordan or triple team him. He always found a way. Kobe has had the luxury of never being double teamed his whole career, and now that he is; everyone sees his weaknesses versus Jordan. Enough said.

 

[Bombs]

In the Sixers/Lakers series, Brown also played Shaq straight up. It actually worked ok, as the Sixers won the first game, and had great chances in games 2 and 3.

The difference here is that the Pistons run a much better offense, are a much better shooting team, and have more scoring options. As for a strategy change, there hasn't been that dramatic of one.

 

[LENNON NIGHT]

I may be biased by my location in the country but..........

People have said that Kobe is more accomplished Jordan at this stage. I agree and disagree. Jordan at this age was coming into his own where as Kobe had Shaq to be the center in the mantle piece. You put Shaq on the bulls when Jordan is 25 and they never lose a title. The comparasion between Jordan and Kobe isn't fair and it never will be because Shaq is around. The most dominant center in his era.

Ultimately, Kobe has little characterisitcs of Jordan, he doesn't make other players better then him yet, he doesn't get back on defense. Think about it, the last time Kobe made a major stop on anyone in this playoff series or the playoffs in general. He complains about fouls when he should be hussling back on D. He can't dominate a game, he can dominate a quarter at times but not for 48 minutes. His jump shot is more inconsistent then Jordan's was at this time period. He takes bad shots a lot and plays wild at times which I can't say Jordan didnt do either.

Jordan never won a title till he was 29. Kobe has 3 already with Shaq. I am not denying Kobe's potential for greatness but I don't think you can compare the two till Kobe is the main focus on the team and A) he is on another team or B) Shaq is retired

End of topic


On Detroit series, I think Lakers can still win this series if and only if they play as a team Shaq and Kobe can still score as much as they want but if they dont get everyone involved they have no shot in hell. and by the way no calls for the lakers the whole series

 

[neverteaseit]

he has alot of career left and a long way to go before he is in the jordan picture. I can't ever remember jordan having no field goals until 8:00 left in the 4th especially in such important games. While he has the potential to be. bryant has missed 26 of his last 36 from the field, harldy jordan esque. only time will tell. Will be interesting to see what happens if he leaves l.a. and if they do lose in the finals I believe he will bolt and then we will see what he is truly made of.

 

[ezpickin]

I said it before and i will say it again...at such a young age, Kobe is dealing with several distractions that NO DOUBT impact his performance on the court...my guess is the majority of posters pissed off with his performance are guys that bet on the lakers to win the series, and THAT is what they are most upset about

 

[Irish]

Been on the Pistons for every game except tonight. Not pissed at Kobe at all, IMO people look at his age too much, he got a 4 year head start on Jordan. Look at NBA experience not age, after 8 years in the NBA Jordan was a better player with less of a supporting cast. Paxon, Grant, Pippen, Cartwright or Payton, Shaq and Malone, who would you rather play with?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, mine is simply stated...... Every player that comes out is compared to Jordan (Carter, Labron, Kobe), hell even Harold Miner was called "Baby Jordan". I merely am saying that it is disrespectful to Jordans accomplishments to say Kobe is any where near his caliber after 8 years in the NBA. Jordan had NCAA championship, Slam Dunk Titles, MVP, Scoring titles, Olympic gold medals and NBA Championships. I didn't See Kobe on any of these lists.

MVP's
1987-88 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1990-91 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1991-92 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1995-96 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1996-97 - Karl Malone, Utah
1997-98 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1998-99 - Karl Malone, Utah
1999-00 - Shaquille O'Neal, Los Angeles Lakers

Scoreing titles
1987 Michael Jordan, Chi 82 3041 37.1
1988 Michael Jordan, Chi 82 2868 35.0
1989 Michael Jordan, Chi 81 2633 32.5
1990 Michael Jordan, Chi 82 2753 33.6
1991 Michael Jordan, Chi 82 2580 31.5
1992 Michael Jordan, Chi 80 2404 30.1
1993 Michael Jordan, Chi 78 2541 32.6
1995 Shaquille O'Neal, Orl 79 2315 29.3
1996 Michael Jordan, Chi 82 2491 30.4
1997 Michael Jordan, Chi 82 2431 29.7
1998 Michael Jordan, Chi 82 2357 28.7
2000 Shaquille O'Neal, LAL 79 2344 29.7

Kobe may have many years to play and I say may because age has nothing to do with a persons body getting run down after years of playing.

 

[ezpickin]

Irish,

Are you serious? Who would I rather play with? It isn't even close! Jordan's teammates by far! Now if you asked the same question with malone and payton in their prime, that's different...payton and malone are mere shells of their former selves - they are washed up..as a result, they can't offload any of the burden!...playing with pippen was HUGE for jordan in terms of his success..playing with Shaq actually in some ways makes it tougher for Bryant...he has a dominating inside presence and as a result is always burdened with needing to get the ball inside...my guess is if Kobe was playing with Cartwright, not many people would be demanding he get the ball inside! Your question is the easiest one I have had to answer in some time....da bulls!

 

[Irish]

playing with shaq hurts Kobe? :shrug: Yeah I can see that playing with the best bigman in the game today could hurt you if you were only concerned with getting your points and not with winning. People demand for the ball to get into shaq because he is unstoppable in the paint. Why would you not want to get the ball inside if you had that force inside. The inside out game would help Kobe more than hurt.

Carwright and Paxon were not exactly rookies when Jordan came on the scene. They were in the end of their careers. The players on those teams were Pippen for Chic and Shaq for LA, which proves my point that jordan was so good he raised the talent level of players around him. Just for the record about Kobe playing against a tall Prince. Jordan played against Clifford Robinson (6'10) / Trail blazers and still had a hell of a series.

If Kobe is as good as Jordan why are there so many excuse being used justifying stats stating he isn't?