Federal Election in Canada on June 28!!

Skanoochies

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 15, 2001
784
7
0
Canada
You guys forgetting Mulroney and Eagleson and their cronies? BEWARE! It`s a tough call but I`d love to vote for an independent with a little charisma and a bit of integrity if I could find one.

Good luck folks.

Skanoochies.:shrug:
 

GM

PleasureGlutton
Forum Member
Jan 21, 2000
2,962
5
0
123
Toronto, ON, Canada
No, I remember Mulroney VERY well. I remember him telling the country "Don't worry about what you think you want. We know what is best for you", or words to that effect. That speech turned my stomach. I haven't voted Conservative again since...and that was in 1990 or so!

In any event, I think it's bad for the country to have any party in power for such a long period of time. In this case the Liberals have had no one party that could challenge them for such a long time that they have gotten a little too cozy. The Conservatives got this way in the past (actually, far worse than the current Liberals are) and after a while seemed to forget they were leading a democratic nation. For the past 10 years the Liberals have been the only party that has been able to get elected representation from all regions of the country. All the other parties were strong in certain areas and completely missing in others.

Anyways, I think we need a change. I agree with you, the parties we have to choose from are pretty poor. Personally I am hoping for a minority government, and I'm not too picky on which party actually has the most members. While a lot of people seem to dread this scenario, I see it as an excellent way to keep the government in check and accountable to the people. You can't just run wild when you have to have allies from the other parties to keep you in power.

(As a footnote: In my riding, the Liberal candidate runs a bakery, and he sends out literature showing him "touring a bakery in Etobicoke". Way to reach out to the community! :rolleyes: The Conservative candidate is a 30-something hot female lawyer. At a local level the choice is very clear for me. :) )
 
Last edited:

1837

Registered User
Forum Member
I guess it's time for me to come in...:rolleyes:

Like Selkirk said the Bloc will get 50 seats or so and it's a good thing! Don't be worry kickserv about them running the country, it is ludicrious to state that! There are present only here in Quebec and their goal is only to represent our best interest ! Even though they win all the seats in Quebec (will never happen), they won't have the majority across the country. Look how many seats are in Ontario...

Martin was having hard times to defends his positions vs Duceppe during the debate on TV last night and the Conservatives took note of that and i expect Harper-Martin to be a top class debate for the second round tonight. The Bloc don't matter whose gonna rule the country (i expect now a conservative minority government with the liberals fiasco campaign..).

Will Martin saves his seats in Ontario to keep his place? Hum...I wish we could have odds for the election, it is really the first time it is gonna be that close and the first time in a while we will get a minority goverment... (I'm afraid so...)

Any odds out there for us to make some $$$:D
 

kickserv

Wrong Forum Mod
Forum Member
Top Poster Of Month
May 26, 2002
92,115
1,843
113
50
Canada
ummmmmmmm 1837.........if any true Canadian isn't a tad "worried" about the Bloc they need there head examined. Yes it's true, they will never "take over the country" but having them win any seats is downright scary :eek: :eek: :eek:

I mean ya have the GREEN PARTY (environment) maybe winning one seat, yet you have the BLOC with roughly 50.......now that just aint right :nono: :nono: :nono:


The BLOC has one thing and one thing only on their mind....SEPARATE......don't be fooled into thinking anything else....if they could snap their fingers and separate they would :nono:

Of course they would want to keep the the airports, the St. Lawrence Seaway, the Postal System, etc......but still be their own country...oh please :rolleyes:
 

GM

PleasureGlutton
Forum Member
Jan 21, 2000
2,962
5
0
123
Toronto, ON, Canada
The latest estimates have the 308 seats being divvied up approximately like this:

Conservative 125
Liberal 98
Bloc 60
NDP 25

Interesting that the Conservatives are only 1% ahead of the Liberals in the current opinion polls, yet could have this big a lead in seats. But of course Liberal support is much more broad (exists in all parts of the country), whereas the other parties' support is more regionalized. So it makes sense the seats could go this way. Most Liberal victories would likely be fairly narrow, compared to landslide wins in many ridings by the Bloc in Quebec, and Conservatives out west.

The Bloc may wield a lot more power if the Conservatives lead a minority government. Because if this is the case, the only party the Conservatives would likely team up with would be the Bloc. Which means all policy would have to be acceptable to them for bills to be passed.

If the Liberals lead a minority government, who are they going to turn to? The NDP will not have enough seats to make their combined forces a majority in the house by the looks of it, so that option is out. This means they either have to work with the Bloc or the Conservatives. Interesting...

By the way, in my estimation I'd say Duceppe and Harper were the winners in the debate. Martin waffled a hell of a lot and didn't answer any of the questions lobbed at him. Layton just looked like a smiling fool.
 

kickserv

Wrong Forum Mod
Forum Member
Top Poster Of Month
May 26, 2002
92,115
1,843
113
50
Canada
Bloc with 60 seats.........I sure as hell hope not :mad: :mad: :mad:

I mean how can that not be scary :mad: :nono:



as I said earlier.....a party like the Green Party will get zero...yet the pricks from the Bloc could get 60...........fu** :eek:
 

selkirk

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 16, 1999
2,147
13
0
Canada
Kickserv the bloc before was the official opposition, the country is still here. in history regions have voted for regional parties.

the west did it with the progresives, you could argue that Reform party was born out of the west as a regional party. did not win any seat Ontario east.

People in Quebec will vote bloc who would not seperate. I am not saying down the road there will not be another vote, but it is just not on the radar for now. The economy and health care are bigger issues, along with more money and power to the provinces and municpalities.

thanks
selkirk
 

1837

Registered User
Forum Member
To Add on Selkirk, Sheila Cops was interview on a french channel and ,to my big surprise, she said that after the debate, lots of journalists from the West found out that Duceppe was the real winner of the debate!:D Bloc care for Quebec interest but if in the same way it helps the other provinces so be it! I think most of you realise that he wasn't the anticipated evil separatist that you all think! :tongue
 

kickserv

Wrong Forum Mod
Forum Member
Top Poster Of Month
May 26, 2002
92,115
1,843
113
50
Canada
yes true......I agree with what selkirk and 1837 said....but I ask you this:

If the BLOC could snap their fingers and separate.....what do you think they would do? Meaning, if all they had to do was "say the word" and it was done..........what do you think their decision would be???

I think we know the answer to that one :eek:
 

Skanoochies

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 15, 2001
784
7
0
Canada
"Unless Stephen Harpers Conservatives win a majority, Paul Martin and his Liberals will have another kick at the can." "In a minority situation, even if Martin has fewer seats than the Conservatives, he has the right to meet the House of Commons and put forth his agenda--end of story," says Wilfred LaurierUniversity political scientist David Docherty.
Canadas political conventions say that if no party wins a clear majority, the incumbent P.M. --Martin--gets the first crack at forming the next gov`t. regardless who won the most ridings.

The precedent dates back to the fed. election of Oct. 1925 which returned 102 libs., 114 Cons., and 29 progressive, labor, and independents.Mackenzie King, the incumbent governed with the support of the progressives until the following June when he was defeated and the Cons. formed the gov`t.In a minority gov`t situation --Martin--who remains P.M. until a replacement is sworn in- has first rightto visit Rideau Hall and explain to Adrienne Clarkson how he thinks he can keep confidence of the house- that is govern.To do so would require the support of at least one other party and most eyes are turning to Jack Layton`s New Dems.

Harpers chance to govern in a minority situation would come only if Martins liberals win so few seats that even with the support of another party, they couldn`t survive a confidence vote.


Very interesting.:canada1 :tmi: :soapbox:
 

kickserv

Wrong Forum Mod
Forum Member
Top Poster Of Month
May 26, 2002
92,115
1,843
113
50
Canada
dam this could get complicated :eek:

hope we don't have any "hanging chads" :D

should be very interesting stuff :eek:
 

GM

PleasureGlutton
Forum Member
Jan 21, 2000
2,962
5
0
123
Toronto, ON, Canada
Skanoochies said:
Harpers chance to govern in a minority situation would come only if Martins liberals win so few seats that even with the support of another party, they couldn`t survive a confidence vote.
Wow, I certainly hadn't heard that. But as I said above, I don't think there is a party out there that will work with the Liberals - at least not one that will have enough seats.

Let's say the NDP wins 25 seats or so. The Bloc could win 60. So do the math...this means the Liberals would have to win 36 more seats than the Conservatives for a Liberal/NDP combo to have a majority in the house. At the present time it looks like the Liberals will have fewer seats than the Conservatives. Obviously the Liberals can't work with the Conservatives, and won't work with the Bloc. The Conservatives and the NDP are from opposite ends of the political spectrum, so they would never work together...making the NDP's help useless to either side. The only combination that seems likely and probable is a Conservative/Bloc alliance.

***********

On an unrelated note - I went out to the candidate's debate last night for my riding. Holy shit is this riding in trouble. The Conservative (29 year old) did not even know her own party's policy and was by the end getting cat-called by the audience. She came off as being straight out of high school and extremely ill-prepared.

The Liberal was not much more impressive. Basically it was like he was there to play an audiotape of Paul Martin's catchphrases "It just doesn't add up", and "Wait time will be reduced" etc etc. Not very sincere, nor very believeable. In addition, when asked what his greatest contribution would be to the riding, he stated his #1 project would be to clean up and beautify our "Lake Ontario shoreline". Apparently he doesn't realize our riding does not go as far south as Lake Ontario!!! Unreal.

The NDP candidate was the only one on stage who actually seemed to have a brain, and knew what his own party's policies are. If this guy ran for the Liberals I have no doubt he would easily win the riding. In this riding the NDP has never had a prayer and usually gets about 5% of the vote.

I came away from the whole thing just shaking my head. Our local representation (Etobicoke Centre) is going to be an embarassment no matter which way it goes.
 
Last edited:

Skanoochies

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 15, 2001
784
7
0
Canada
Hi GM, further quoting from "The Province" here in Van. "Harper may also try to form an alliance with the Bloc which despite its separatist roots, is seen by many Conservatists as their best bet. But the parties are at odds on the Kyoto climate accord,the war in Iraq, abortion, gay rights and regional economic development. " And the part that I agree the most is "For Harper, there`s also the danger of a backlash in the rest of the country if he is seen as cozying up to the separatists."
And I guess with 9 days of campaigning left, someone could still come up with some blockbuster to change a lot of opinions.

All I can say is GOOD LUCK, Canada!:)
 

kickserv

Wrong Forum Mod
Forum Member
Top Poster Of Month
May 26, 2002
92,115
1,843
113
50
Canada
just do what I did..........vote for the Green Party........can't go wrong with the environment :)
 

selkirk

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 16, 1999
2,147
13
0
Canada
kickserv the green party loss my vote when one of their policies is increasing the gas tax by 5 cents.

a good thing to help kill the economy and cost me $$. also they would use the money to improve transit systems in Canada.

that means take money from me, and send it to large cities Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, ect. so they can spend another $2 billion + on these projects.

funny how the high gas taxes do not go into roads....most general revenues.

thanks
selkirk
 

GM

PleasureGlutton
Forum Member
Jan 21, 2000
2,962
5
0
123
Toronto, ON, Canada
6/28/2004 7:00 AM Who will win most seats in June 28 2004 election. Wager is on party who wins the most seat in the house of commons, not the most votes. Final seat count posted on canoe.ca on June 29, 2004 is use for grading purposes. Recounts is not valid towards wager. $300 wagering limit
201 Conservative Party -160
202 Liberals Party +120
203 Any Other Party +5000

6/28/2004 7:00 AM Will the margin be a minority or majority $300 wagering limit
205 Minority -450
206 Majority +300

Interesting wording on that second one. :)

That "Any Other Party" is a sucker bet if I ever saw one. +5000 looks great, but when it should really be +500000....welll... I suppose the whole nation is suddenly going to vote NDP or Green?

I guess they are pretty convinced it will be a Conservative minority. I didn't think "minority" was that cut and dried. Personally I think the Liberals may be seeing the tide turn their way a little bit in the coming days. Harper's constant harping about the Liberals supporting child porn is a little much. No level-headed person would believe anyone is in favor of child porn. I'm thinking those who were voting Conservative but were only barely convinced to do so may hear this ridiculous talk and change their minds at the last minute. Harper's coming off a little bit preachy to me the last couple of days...kinda scaring me actually.

It really does look like it's going to be very close.
 

GM

PleasureGlutton
Forum Member
Jan 21, 2000
2,962
5
0
123
Toronto, ON, Canada
So what are leader debates for anyway?

So what are leader debates for anyway?

The Campaign

By Dave Taylor
Otawa Bureau Chief, CBC Radio News
(from CBC.ca)

June 22, 2004


David Taylor
Many things I presume, but picking the winning party in the election isn?t necessarily one of them.

Last week?s debates seem to have confirmed a pattern that we?ve seen in the last few elections. Perceived winners don?t necessarily reap huge benefits. Jean Charest was judged to have won the 1997 debates, but his party still finished fifth overall when the votes were counted. Joe Clark was the pick of the leaders in 2000, but saw his party?s popular vote and seat count decline from the levels Charest attained three years earlier.

The punditocracy and some polling suggests that Stephen Harper came out on top in the English debate on Tuesday, Gilles Duceppe the winner on Monday. Since then the media polling suggests that public opinion is pretty much static. The Bloc maintains its huge lead in Quebec. The Liberals and Conservatives are in a statistical heat nationally. The New Democrats are a strong third.

So with one week to go, the debates are ancient history. There is everything to play for in this election.

These are uncharted waters for our major parties. None of the senior players in the Liberal, Conservative and NDP campaigns has seen something this close in their careers. They came of age in an era of sweeps and majorities. The old hands have only the most distant memories of 1979. The 1972 cliffhanger is ancient history for the leaders and the teams around them.

What is a party to do?

Willie Sutton once said he robbed banks because "that's where the money is." There is the political corollary to the bank robber's credo. You go to where the voters are, and in this election most of them are in Ontario.

This week the Liberals, Conservatives and NDP are spending the bulk of their time in Canada's largest province seat-wise. In a race so close, the sense is that bringing the leader in to help a local candidate may be the difference between winning and losing.

Get a load of Jack Layton's Friday itinerary: Timmins, Sudbury, Sault Ste Marie, Windsor, London, Kitchener, Cambridge, and Guelph. He wants to touch every living, breathing, x-marking NDP supporter in the province if he can.

While the Tory and Liberal tours may not manage eight cities in one day, expect them to be just as busy. On Tuesday, for instance, Stephen Harper pops up in Ottawa, The Soo and Toronto.

This is where the "airwar" intersects with the "groundwar."

The leader tours are the "airwar," the commanding heights of the campaign where the big themes are rolled out. They get the bulk of the attention. The "groundwar" is the riding-by-riding battle where organization, volunteers, persuasion and committment matter most. In all 308 ridings, the parties have armies of volunteers who work the phones, go door-to-door, attempt to identify their vote and do whatever is necessary to get it to the polling place on Monday. Good organization on election day can make the difference between winning and losing on June 28.

Just ask Leeds-Grenville MP Joe Jordan. In 2000, the Ontario Liberal knew he was in a tough race with his Canadian Alliance challenger Gord Brown. A superior Liberal organization on election day helped Jordan pull off the tightest race in Canada, a 55 vote margin. (Jordan and Brown are facing off again this time. Jordan is viewed as having the better organization, but Brown doesn't have to compete against a Progressive Conservative.)

As this week unfolds, local campaigns will be attempting to polish off their last canvass and figure out the shape of the vote poll by poll. Then things turn to election-day planning and delivering those votes to the polling place. Need help with getting registered? The campaigns know how. Want a ride to your polling place? The campaigns can oblige. Feeling reluctant about voting? If the party has identified you as a supporter or leaning that way, expect a phone call trying to persuade you to mark your X.

(My favourite election-day canvass story. In the 1985 Ontario provincial election I lived in the downtown Toronto riding of the late Larry Grossman, a Tory cabinet minister. He had lost a tight leadership race to Frank Miller earlier in the year, and was facing a tough challenge from the Liberals and NDP. On election day, late afternoon, I got a knock on my door and there was my Tory candidate, urging anyone who looked like a potential Tory voter to get out and vote. I was a scruffy university student at the time, so it must have struck him as a wasted conversation. He was running, literally, door-to-door. He won. Sometimes that's what you have to do to win.)

The next week is going to be fascinating to watch, both from the air and the ground. In a race that appears as tight as this one, it could be the small battles, in hundreds of different places across the country, that make the difference for the winners and losers.
 

GM

PleasureGlutton
Forum Member
Jan 21, 2000
2,962
5
0
123
Toronto, ON, Canada
To the End Game

To the End Game

By Keith Boag
Ottawa Bureau Chief, CBC TV News
June 21, 2004
(from CBC.ca)

Keith Boag
Last week the Liberals and the Conservatives found themselves repeating the same message. Usually that's a sign one of them has made a mistake.

The Liberals had been struggling to convince voters that if they voted for the Conservatives they might actually get a Conservative government. It sounds odd, but polls had showed a majority of Canadians felt that no matter how they voted, the Liberals were still going to end up in government. In other words, they thought their vote had no real consequence.

But then Stephen Harper came out of the TV debates a little bit pumped and he started telling voters they'd be getting a Conservative government and it could very well be a majority government to boot. Liberals scratched their heads and thought "Hey, that's supposed to be our point!" But they weren't complaining.

People do seem to want change and they are ticked off at the Liberals. But suppose they just want to exercise some discipline and reduce the Liberals to a minority government? If that's the kind of change they want then Harper's got a problem. His "majority" talk may have given voters a reason to think twice before voting for him, the very thing the Liberals were hoping for.

By the end of last week Conservative strategists were privately conceding that Harper would have been better off to just continue to hammer the Liberals on the sponsorship scandal and forget the stuff about forming government. Better for voters to go to the polls still thinking "time for a change" than to switch to wondering whether Stephen Harper should be the next Prime Minister.

And then there was that business of accusing Paul Martin of supporting child pornography only to withdraw the accusation an hour or so later. It was the kind of move that probably plays well with the Conservatives' base but it's not a move you'd expect from a party trying to appeal to voters who are seriously checking them out for the first time.

It makes you wonder whether the Conservatives knew there was always something very tentative about their modest momentum in this campaign, whether they've worried about something in the polls that has been obvious for a while.

Only once has a media poll put the Conservatives as high as 37 per cent support nationally and that was more than a week and a half ago. It lasted two days. The magic of 37 per cent is that it equals what the Canadian Alliance and Progressive Conservatives parties got in the 2000 election if you add their votes together. Adding their votes together was pretty much the whole point of merging the two parties, so 37 per cent is a reasonable estimate of the base from which the Conservative Party should be building. They should be able to pull 37 per cent in their sleep.

But the Conservatives have yet to sustain that number. They have moved incrementally from the low 20s into a statistical dead heat with the Liberals in the low 30s, but they have not reached what should be their base.

Which brings us to the polling company SES Research, the only pollsters who've put the Conservatives, albeit briefly, at 37 per cent. We're quite fond of SES here at the CBC election desk. Together with its media partner, CPAC, SES is carving out a niche among political addicts with their daily tracking poll. It's a small sample size with a relatively big margin of error, but it's regular, predictable daily fix and it's free. Plus, it's been remarkably quick to pick up changes in the campaign. It caught the Conservatives' momentum, the Liberals' decline and then the big stall when both the main parties went day after day in a statistical dead heat.

What SES showed in its most recent tracking poll, Friday, was a reversal in both of the main trends of the campaign: the Liberals beginning to recover ground and the Conservatives falling back. Such a turn in fortunes so late in the campaign would be one of the most dramatic shifts in recent Canadian elections. That's if it's really happening.

It all augurs well for spectators in the final week of the race. The Liberals are still running hard against "change" and "change" is a formidable opponent. The Conservatives may have peaked too soon in this campaign so they will have to pour it on in the homestretch to recover their shot at forming a government. It may indeed be "one for the ages."
 

GM

PleasureGlutton
Forum Member
Jan 21, 2000
2,962
5
0
123
Toronto, ON, Canada
Looks like the bettors have been hitting the Liberals in the past 24 hours at Olympic...

201 Conservative Party -120
202 Liberals Party -110
203 Any Other Party +5000

Conservatives were at -160 just yesterday. :eek:

Minority / majority numbers unchanged ... Minority still at -450.
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top