Kansas will not advance to the Sweet 16

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gman2

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Sun Tzu said:
As for the turnaround, they werent a 500 team last year. They were an NCAA team seeded int he top half that many had penciled into the regional final if not final four.
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agree here. north carolina was the chic pick for the final four by a lot of people last season.

johnny -- good post man. really cant truly 'disagree' with what you said. im just of the belief that it will be beneficial for them to lose in the big 10 tourney. to your point, i know what you mean when you say that a loss could plant the seed of doubt, but i think it would still help immensely. its not that they couldnt handle the pressure (any team that goes undefeated this deep into the season can handle pressure) but the streak takes on a life of its own and the media will really run with that. i guess its hard to explain why i believe that -- guess its just from personal experience. that said, like sun said, it all comes down to the tourney draws. can you imagine illinois having to face a team like georgia tech in the 2nd round if the jackets get in as an 8/9 seed? thats an elite 8-caliber game that illinois could realistically lose on the first weekend. that goes for any team that draws tech (if they get in of course). every tourney is wacky and unique in its own way, but there are a lot of good teams that will be seeded much lower than their talent level and that will make for interesting pairings. illinois is very very good. but just not invincible by any stretch. while i agree with sun that the big 10 is obviously garbage this year, what the illini did to msu in east lansing was very very impressive and thats enough for me to legitimize anything theyve done. really looking forward to the rematch in the big 10 tourney
 
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I think what may be a problem for Illinois is that they have not been in a lot of close games. Their players have not had to execute in the last two minutes of a game. Have they been tied or behind in any game with two minutes left this year? When the first time that happens is in a tournament game, they may be in trouble.
 
gjn23

gjn23

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#1 seeded Illinois vs #4 seeded Uconn
anyone "shocked" if uconn wins???

#1 seeded Illinios vs #4 seeded Bama
anyone "shocked" if bama wins???

#1 seeded Illinois vs #8 seeded Ga Tech/LSU
I won't be "scocked of Ga Tech or LSU wins that game.

Point is....there is very minimal differences between the clear vut #1 team (illinois) and the #16 team (uconn) and the #32 team (ga tech).

After watching Arizona beat 3 #1 seeds in 97....nothing shocks me anymore, the talent level at HIGH D1 programs is very similar.
 
saint

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Sun Tzu said:
Saint,

In one sense I dont disagree. But fact is tourney games are different and Roy doesnt make the right adjustments. He always seems determined to play one way. The players havent been coached all year to play against "fill in the blank team" that they will see in the tourney - the Coach has to prepare, and generally in one day. Looma the teams he has lost too in the tourney - kie Rhode Island in KC of all places. Or a 5 seed Arizona when he had 3 #1 draft picks in the starting lineup/ At some point it aint just the players. Heck, absent 2 of the biggest bonehead plays of all time Dean Smith would ahve never won one, and looka t the talent he had. Did they just not do what they were taught every March too?

As for the turnaround, they werent a 500 team last year. They were an NCAA team seeded int he top half that many had penciled into the regional final if not final four. They had a ton more talent than Texas and who won? If Rick Barnes out prepares you that is not a good sign.
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I was referring to ACC last year, 8-8 compared with this season. You do make some good points, I've often wondered why in these games when we are up 20 we don't go to a zone or other sets to get practice in. I also think that while at times Roy is right not to call frequent time-outs, there are others where one is desperately needed but it's like he refuses to call it out of principle.

FWIW I don't think the heels go very deep. I just think these guys are used to losing tight games, this roster of players. There isn't a true go-to guy, believe it or not, on that team. Everyone is afraid to step up really in the crunch.
 
saint

saint

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Also forgot to mention in my last post, it's no coincidence Rashad's illness coincides with the diagnosis of cancer with his mom. He internalizes everything, expect him to be off the rest of the year (look at last 4 games before he went out).
 
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Scott4USC

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Trying to understand the logic.

Illinois won't win it all because they went undefeated during the season and their conf. isn't the toughest in the country. However Illinois has beaten 8 teams ranked in the top 30 and 2 teams ranked in the top 10. But lets not claim them a top 3 favorite to win it all. No way.

UNC has been dominant all year playing in the toughest conf. in the country IMO. Beat 6 teams ranked in top 30 and 1 team in top 10 while playing a top 10 ranked SOS. But UNC won't win it all because their coach supposedly chokes and will choke again this year.

Sun Tzu says Washington, WF, and OSU are his top 3 to win it all as of right now without looking at the brackets etc.

UNC and Illinois might not win it all, but how can anybody leave not one, but BOTH teams out of their top 3 to win all. Makes no sense to me.

Maybe I am biased since i have huge $$$ on both UNC and Illinois to go all the way. Then again, there is a reason i bet huge on both teams on Jan. 31st and my opinion has not changed. I also have $$$ on Kansas. :)

FYI

Not sure how you anti Kansas fans feel about Duke, but Pinnacle has a great prop bet for you guys.

Thu 3/10 Who will get further in NCAA Mens Tournament ?

Duke +138
Kansas -155

Do you think Duke makes the sweet 16? Some of you said Kansas won't even make it. Do you think Duke makes the elite 8? MOST of you don't think Kansas makes the elite 8. All in all, if Duke makes the sweet 16 according to all of your opinions, you will be guaranteed to win $$$ or break even with this prop bet. On top of that, Duke is +138 so you are getting odds. What a wonderful bet for all of you! Unless you feel the same way about Duke as you do Kansas. :)
 
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Master Capper

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this discussion is worthless until the brackets come out and you can see where potential pitfalls are for top rated teams. Some live dogs could be Cuse, Mich St, Nova, Bama, Okie, Zona, as all these teams are capable of pulling off a shocker but each one has major holes ranging from interior size to inexpernce at the guard position. The pairings are going to be big this year are there are some midmajors that could cause turmoil in a bracket this year such as SILL, NIWA, ST Marys, Nev, and a few others that could potentially make the road easier for a top seed to advance by thinning the bracket for them.
 
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Scott4USC

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Master Capper

As of right now, who are your top 3 teams to win it all? Not longshots. Not sleeper teams.Not upset specials. Who in your opinion, are the 3 teams to win it all?

My 3 are Illinois, UNC, and WF.
 
ageecee

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Roy Williams might be a choker come tournament time but this UNC team has the athletes to overcome Williams coaching. i would probably say they are the most talented team this year. Didnt say they were going to win it but they got a good chance to get there.
 
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gman2

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ageecee said:
Roy Williams might be a choker come tournament time but this UNC team has the athletes to overcome Williams coaching.
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id say paul pierce and raef lafrentz were pretty talented. drew gooden, collison, and heinrich werent too bad either.
 
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Sun Tzu

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gman2 said:
id say paul pierce and raef lafrentz were pretty talented. drew gooden, collison, and heinrich werent too bad either.
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I would say the first 20 minutes of UNC tonight demonstrates my point - plenty of vulnerable teams and to say any team just has to be a favorite is nuts
 
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gman2

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sun:

refresh my memory. who beat the pierce-led kansas team? it was in the round of 16 if im not mistaken wasnt it? they didnt even make a legit run.
 
gjn23

gjn23

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um that would be Arizona with Bibby,Simon, Dickerson and Terry.

Guards running around their big men and exposing Jaque Jones for the average point guard that he was.
 
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Sun Tzu

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Yep - an Arizona team that was essentially beaten by So ALabama and Charleston came to life and then went all the way
 
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gman2

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gjn23 said:
Guards running around their big men and exposing Jaque Jones for the average point guard that he was.
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i agree. jones was never much of a point guard. always thought he was a better outfielder.
 
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