schiavo case...

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
i`m no right to life guy....but this one has me shaking my head....

i`m not totally up on the facts,but,doesn`t the husband benefit greatly by letting his "spouse"(so to speak)starve to death?....

why wasn`t this done years ago?....is it just because the guy stands to inherit the malpractice settlement?...

isn`t it cruel to deny the parents the right to care for their daughter if they so choose?....

and in all honesty,why let the woman starve to death?....i don`t care what anybody says,it`s not a pleasant way to die...it`s slow and agonizing....not only for the woman....but for the woman`s family...the mother,father and siblings....

we put dogs and cats to sleep to be humane...why not give the woman a humane death?....

this country is so f-cked up,it`s scary...our judicial system is f-cked...

has anybody examined the motives of this woman`s husband?.....with his new family?....

the media doesn`t delve into that issue....why not?
 

SALTY DOG

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Media..........ratings
Judicial system......expediency
Humanity....non issue
Justice.....non issue


not my viewpoint GW...just the way it is
 
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kosar

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The whole thing is just crazy. I've been following this thing since I moved to Florida 11 years ago and I still can't figure out what I think.

I *do* know that it's been a total circus the whole way. They have actually removed the tube with the intention of starving her two other times. Once for 2 days in 2001 and once for 6 days in 2003. The first time a judge ordered it put back in and the second time Jeb Bush pushed through a bill real quick which ordered it put back in.

The horrible thing about this one is that it just isn't a matter of pulling the plug on a ventillator and as mentioned above, the only real option is starvation/dehydration which is horrible.

One to two weeks of watching this woman starve to death? Just terrible. Some provision in our law that would allow her to be sedated and then injected lethally would really be good here. Those put to death in our penal system are treated more humanely.
 

kosar

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gardenweasel said:
why wasn`t this done years ago?....is it just because the guy stands to inherit the malpractice settlement?...

I think he already received that money (one million) back in 1992.
 

AR182

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i do believe in mercy killing but starving somebody to death is too cruel......

my father-in-law, who was suffering from parkinson's disease, was starved to death while he was in the hospital.......it took 2-32 days for him to die.

if mercy killing is to be done, it should be by injection......which kills the person immediately.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Is strange ordeal--normally I would say let her go but being feeding tube is only life support does change it somewhat.
If it was situation where family was losing house-childrens tuition ect to keep one in vegitative state alive it would be another story--but since parents are will to take her--I say let them.
Irie thing is that on some of tapes it appears her eyes follow outside movement--who knows? tough call--but not the governments in my opinion.
 

Bombs

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the most disturbing aspect of this case is that terry and the husband were having problems before this ordeal and possibly separated. this guy changed his mind multiple times about whether there should be a feeding tube. he is slimy as shit. there is certainly no clear cut power of attorney or next of kin in this case and no family consensus has been reached so the feeding tube should stay in. what is happening now is an absolute joke.
 

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
the husband has an agenda,obviously.....and i understand that the only indication that she doesn`t want measures to keep her alive are the husband`s say so and a friend`s statement....

nothing on paper....the friend could have had her palm greased by the husband,who,i agree,is a scumbag of the first order...

our judicial system is ridiculous....mass murderer`s get more appeal rights than this woman`s family....

teddy kennedy and robert wexler are trying to make political hay out of this....which,i think is pretty stupid...i doubt their efforts will play well with the majority of the public.....they disgust me...
 
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kosar

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What a shocker. U.S. Congress passes emergency bill that would allow for federal review of this case and they might be re-inserting tube. F'ing crazy.
 

Turfgrass

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I?m completely split on this issue? She is not "disabled" in the normal context of the word. Her body is, for all practical purposes, dead ... being kept alive solely through extraordinary artificial means. She's not in a coma. People recover from comas. Her condition is diagnosed as a "persistent vegetative state." There is no medical record of someone recovering from a persistent vegetative state.

This is not a state of brain damage. It is, for all practical purposes, brain death and the husband says, and the courts have agreed, that he is merely carrying out wishes expressed to him by his wife.

On the other hand removing a feeding tube and letting someone starve to death is the most grisly thing I can image.

Just for a second put yourself in this position. You're watching TV with your spouse one night and see a show about someone on life support. You tell your husband or wife that you don't want to ever be in that state, and would they please pull the plug should you ever become incapacitated. However, you don't write it down, and apparently don't tell your parents. Tragedy strikes and only you and your spouse know your true wishes. Should your spouse be ignored in favor of your parents who want to keep you alive at all costs?

Now, a question? How many of you can honestly say that you would like to be kept alive, for 20, 40, 50 years or more like this? If you wouldn't want this for yourself, why are many working so hard to force this reality on Terri Schiavo?
 

Turfgrass

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kosar said:
What a shocker. U.S. Congress passes emergency bill that would allow for federal review of this case and they might be re-inserting tube. F'ing crazy.

Totally agree... F'ing crazy.
 

dr. freeze

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Turfgrass said:
I?m completely split on this issue? She is not "disabled" in the normal context of the word. Her body is, for all practical purposes, dead ... being kept alive solely through extraordinary artificial means. She's not in a coma. People recover from comas. Her condition is diagnosed as a "persistent vegetative state." There is no medical record of someone recovering from a persistent vegetative state.

This is not a state of brain damage. It is, for all practical purposes, brain death and the husband says, and the courts have agreed, that he is merely carrying out wishes expressed to him by his wife.

On the other hand removing a feeding tube and letting someone starve to death is the most grisly thing I can image.

Just for a second put yourself in this position. You're watching TV with your spouse one night and see a show about someone on life support. You tell your husband or wife that you don't want to ever be in that state, and would they please pull the plug should you ever become incapacitated. However, you don't write it down, and apparently don't tell your parents. Tragedy strikes and only you and your spouse know your true wishes. Should your spouse be ignored in favor of your parents who want to keep you alive at all costs?

Now, a question? How many of you can honestly say that you would like to be kept alive, for 20, 40, 50 years or more like this? If you wouldn't want this for yourself, why are many working so hard to force this reality on Terri Schiavo?

this is a very ignorant post

my thoughts are mixed on the issue but saying she is braindead is absolutely incorrect

the "extraordinary artificial means" would not include food and water delivery IMO

she is also not on life support

if she was on a ventilator maybe things are different, but feeding tubes are used all the time in the PICU, and for long term and hospice care
 
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Turfgrass

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dr. freeze said:
this is a very ignorant post

my thoughts are mixed on the issue but saying she is braindead is absolutely incorrect

the "extraordinary artificial means" would not include food and water delivery IMO

if she was on a ventilator maybe, but feeding tubes are used all the time for long term and hospice care

Well I'm not her doctor and from what I've been told nobody has recovered from a persistent vegetative state. She's NEVER going to snap out of it.

Sounds Brain dead to me.
 

dr. freeze

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do you want to form your opinions on what things "sound like" or how they truly are?

one cannot breathe if one is "brain dead"

personally i dont see how the former husband has a say in the matter as he is pretty much common law married to another woman....he is clearly not acting in the woman's best interest

also i think there is a time to die for everyone -- and when a reasonable decision is made, this might be time for her right now, but when that time comes should only be made by people who are in position to make that decision -- or by living will -- and as said this man is not in that position

i dont like the feds involved in this at all, but also dont see how any judge can let this snake determine this woman's fate....i can almost see that as grounds to impeach that judge
 

Turfgrass

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She is in a persistent vegetative state, not a coma. She will not suddenly sit up one day and ask what's been going on. Her body can sustain only the most basic functions. It will react to pain, but she has no conscious awareness of the pain. The body will react to other stimulus, such as loud noises or lights being turned on and off ... but, again, she has no conscious awareness of any kind as to what is happening around her.

The term "persistent vegetative state" wasn't just created out of thin air. Face it. Terri Schiavo has no awareness of the world around her. There is nothing left but a wasted body that transported her on this earth during her life. She is not there. Sad but true.

Now I agree that this is a Florida matter, not a federal matter. The courts of the State of Florida have made their rulings. The U.S. Congress has no role to play here. This is a blatant attempt on the part of the Congress to usurp bona fide state's rights in order to please a particular political constituency.
 

dr. freeze

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it is a federal governments job as well as the president to uphold the constitution and protect those inherent rights though...and if the feds do not believe that the person who is making the decision in the best interest, than they may have legitimate reason to step in....i am no constitutional lawyer, but this argument certainly has some degree of merit

also i am not arguing what "state" she may or may not be in

the diagnostic criteria for those states however change all the time anyway and only superspecialists are the ones who can keep up with it

prognosis certainly is dim, but neither of us is informed enough to be certain of any prognosis, so i would much rather have the doctors along with family members in her best interest be making decisions...not her estranged husband
 

kosar

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This thread is pretty representative of the confusion and differing rulings about this from the Florida courts. Good points made by all sides and it also shows how this has been going on for 15 ridiculous years.

Turf,

Are you saying that because she is in that state that she would not suffer from starvation/dehydration? I'm asking seriously, as obviously I have no idea. I ask you because you rightfully mention that starvation is 'grisly', but one could also read into your comments that your opinion of her state is such that she might not even be consciously affected by starvation.

Because to me, as it stands right now, I slightly come down on the side of keeping her alive because of the means of death.

If they would be able to let her pass in a way that wasn't patently cruel, i'd probably slightly come down on the side of letting her go.
 

fletcher

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By pulling that tube they are killing her, my mom was brain dead from her stroke a few years ago and she was given a morphine drip my call and my sisters we told our dad later because it would of killed him for he to go one for maybe 6 months or more had strong heart but no brain waves due to the type of stroke she had, the bad one where vessels bust in head nothing can save you really from that, so she went fast pain free and i made the choice to save my dad. she was on a vent also

this girl or young lady is only on a feeding tube she has some moter skills she can blink her eyes open and shut them my mom could not and could not feel pain, this lady can respond to pain stim and is not on anything but feeding tube this is flat out murder he left husband dervoice her and let he parents have care of her , parents should have more rights over their children over a spouse , a spouse is just a piece of paper not blood family when you come down to it. how about the girl a few weeks ago that came out of coma after 17 years just out of know where. I believe in god and if it was her time he would take her by haveing her organs shut down and needingd life support, not by pulling out a feeding tube.

Flay out murder she had no living will or advance directive so the word of mouth does not get it for me the husband should be the one to take a hike and let her family have her. major difference being kept alive with a feeding tube then on life support. Many people are kept alive with feeding tubes as they can't eat. this is just sick . don't get me wrong I feel for husband also but parents rights should be over a piece of paper like a marriage cert. and you don't starve someone to death you do what is called comfort care that is the choice i had to make and it was hard but right , this is not right because she is alive with out help but feeding tube, this is like me taking one of you and locking you in a room with out food or water till you passed i am sure not a very nice way to go.

Last I am going to say about this because it is all wrong and i feel strong and hurt over the whole thing when i think about it.
 

Turfgrass

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NO, I think that starving her to death is horrible

I just know that I?d never want to live the rest of my days that way. Add to that the fact that the husband said she wouldn?t want to live that way. It makes quite the moral dilemma.

But I agree with you on both counts that they should keep her alive until a better method can be devised because starvation should not be an option, but as soon as another method becomes apparent then we should let her go.

Just make sure you all have your living will made out so something like this doesn?t happen to you.
 
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