I saw a site had some early lines on a handful of games. One of them was Texas -1.5 v Ohio State. I of course would love for Texas to win, but that line is nuts to me. Typically a line like that would tell me Texas wins, but based on the track records that seems like alot of value in Ohio State to me.
Texas-Ohio State
- Thread starter Sun Tzu
- Start date
I can't wait for this game. 2 reasons I can think of why OSU might lose is they lost their MVP kicker. Didn't they just suspend there other kicker for year? This really hurts OSU because they rely so heavily on there kicker.
Didn't OSU lose there DC? Just like OSU relied so heavily on there kicker, they also relied on their defense.
That aside, I agree with you. I'll take OSU at home as PK or underdog.
X-Factor: Tressel over Brown!
Just a hunch, but I think Tressel will force Texas to throw the ball and not let their QB run. Force Texas to score by passing the ball. Vince Young is a great runner but an average QB.
Didn't OSU lose there DC? Just like OSU relied so heavily on there kicker, they also relied on their defense.
That aside, I agree with you. I'll take OSU at home as PK or underdog.
X-Factor: Tressel over Brown!
Just a hunch, but I think Tressel will force Texas to throw the ball and not let their QB run. Force Texas to score by passing the ball. Vince Young is a great runner but an average QB.
Texas has a new DC this year too (Chizak from Auburn, so I already know you think he is worthless) and last year's kicker graduated. Aside from Ginn who is sick overall Texas does has more talent on paper, but last I checked most fields have grass. It is a game Texas SHOULD win, but that sure doesnt mean they will.
But back on point - I am befuddled by that line.
But back on point - I am befuddled by that line.
Scott......you will see a different style of Buckeye team this year......the kicker wont be nearly as important as it has in the past. The offense will be forced to open up this year.
Sun...they have to put out a line...they figure
most people will bite with the home team first
game of the season...two top 5 teams coming
into the season...they want OSU $$$$...Texas
will not only win this one but will run the gauntlet
my biggest bet unless major injuries will be the
OU game...Texas will beat OU this year and you
can take that to the fricken bank and you know
it.....
most people will bite with the home team first
game of the season...two top 5 teams coming
into the season...they want OSU $$$$...Texas
will not only win this one but will run the gauntlet
my biggest bet unless major injuries will be the
OU game...Texas will beat OU this year and you
can take that to the fricken bank and you know
it.....
"texas will beat ou this year...and you can take it to the bank"
The bank actually opens a special deposit line for me every year on the monday after the ou-texas game.......dont see it changing anytime soon.........i'll ride ou again!
The bank actually opens a special deposit line for me every year on the monday after the ou-texas game.......dont see it changing anytime soon.........i'll ride ou again!
Texas doesn't have the athletes to beat OU. On top of that, major coaching advantage for OU. Texas always can pull the upset but there is a reason why OU has dominated this series.
if stoops vs. brown is a mismatch, then tressel vs. brown is every bit as lopsided as well.
that said, texas is gonna be friggin good. but anything less than ohio state (-3) is ridiculous. there are very few, if any, teams in the nation that have as much sideline to sideline speed as the osu linebackers and that will certainly go a long way toward keeping young in check as far as running.
as big tease said, bucks offense really wont even resemble the pedestrian attack they were running for much of last season. ginn (especially) and smith (to a lesser extent) really changed the complexion of the entire offense once they were inserted into the lineup.
again, really think the winner of this game has a legit shot to be playing in the rose bowl. obviously a ton can happen from august until january but this game is as good as it gets (which is why, incidentally, i cant see putting down a significant wager on either side. week one tough enough to predict. but these two teams are dead even)
that said, texas is gonna be friggin good. but anything less than ohio state (-3) is ridiculous. there are very few, if any, teams in the nation that have as much sideline to sideline speed as the osu linebackers and that will certainly go a long way toward keeping young in check as far as running.
as big tease said, bucks offense really wont even resemble the pedestrian attack they were running for much of last season. ginn (especially) and smith (to a lesser extent) really changed the complexion of the entire offense once they were inserted into the lineup.
again, really think the winner of this game has a legit shot to be playing in the rose bowl. obviously a ton can happen from august until january but this game is as good as it gets (which is why, incidentally, i cant see putting down a significant wager on either side. week one tough enough to predict. but these two teams are dead even)
Scott4USC said:
Scott you show your lack of knowledge here. OU will be down this year talent wise. No doubt Stoops is the better coach, but this year at least Texas has the better players. OU in particular has huge problems at QB. The still have Peterson of course, but even with White and Clayton they only put 12 on the board v UT last year. And if Texas wins it wont be an "upset" as Texas will be favored and higher ranked than OU, probably even if they lose to Ohio State. Almost every pre-season poll has USC-Texas 1-2. Texas doesnt win this year against OU they may never do it.
As for GMan's comments, as I posted in another threaad weeks ago, I agree that the winner of this game probably goes to the Rose Bowl.
I would add though, this wont be 'Week One" for either team.
Young is a horrible QB. SUPERB athlete and runner, but he is not a QB.
Mack Brown and Texas don't have a complete offensive attack. It is not difficult to beat Texas with Young as QB. Stack the box and make him beat you "repeatedly" in the air. OU def. has enough talent on defense to accomplish this.
Texas will try and pound the ball as usual and run there style of offense. No surpises or adjustments from Texas. Even if Texas is the better team, they will be ultra conservative in trying to win the game and not blow it. Texas also is always conservative to start games.
Texas doesn't run a complex offensive system. It is not even a balanced system. They are a very easy team to prepare for. Add to that they are OU's rival and that is why OU beats Texas on consistent basis. You can't be one dimensional and beat OU. Stoops isn't stupid. Tressel isn't stupid either. Gameplan will be stack the box and force Texas to pass pass pass. THEY CAN'T PASS! If they can, they can't do it on consistent basis.
OU will be very talented next year. Texas may have more talent but they do not have the "athletes" to beat OU.
I don't respect Texas and Brown a whole lot because he tries to win with just having better players. He doesn't win on coaching/adjustments.
Look at how USC played OU (vs Texas over OU) last year and USC is not even familiar with OU. USC coaches knew how to attack the defense of OU. SPREAD THE BALL AROUND THE FIELD AND ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK! OU loves to blitz and put pressure on QB? So what did USC coaches do? They rolled Lienart out on majority of his passes and it worked like a charm. Lienart had not done that too often all year. Every year I watch Texas/OU and Brown doesn't do ANYTHING special and always plays conservative. If Brown was the coach of USC in that game, I guarantee you he would have played conservative and tight to vest. Prob. run run pass run run pass etc. Don't make mistakes. Lets hang in there. LOSERS MENTALITY! That is why OU has success over Texas. Not very hard to coach against Texas when you know what they like to do.
According to OLYMPIC SPORTSBOOK
OU is +150 to win Big 12
Texas is +175 to win Big 12
OU is 12-1 to win BCS NC
Texas is 12-1 to win BCS NC
It appears oddsmakes/bettors have some respect for OU next year and they may be a talented team again! Otherwise they would have OU at 15-1 or 20-1 and make a killing if they thought OU wasn't that talented because $$$$ would be coming in on OU.
gman2
Tressel is highly respected by many as a coach. But my question is this. If he is such a great coach and recruiter, WHY can't he put out a decent offense? Why does it take so long? He still has not put together a high powered offense. This is my only knock against him. He is not getting the job done offensively.
I think him liking to play conservative is BS. OSU won there National Championship playing a LOT of close games (even against bad teams) and having luck on there side. Who prefers to win that way? Put out a decent offense and dominate your opponents offensively and defensively. How dangerous of a team would OSU be if they had a good offense to go along with their great defense? Why doesn't he put that product out there. He is prob. a top 10 recruiter in the country.
Mack Brown and Texas don't have a complete offensive attack. It is not difficult to beat Texas with Young as QB. Stack the box and make him beat you "repeatedly" in the air. OU def. has enough talent on defense to accomplish this.
Texas will try and pound the ball as usual and run there style of offense. No surpises or adjustments from Texas. Even if Texas is the better team, they will be ultra conservative in trying to win the game and not blow it. Texas also is always conservative to start games.
Texas doesn't run a complex offensive system. It is not even a balanced system. They are a very easy team to prepare for. Add to that they are OU's rival and that is why OU beats Texas on consistent basis. You can't be one dimensional and beat OU. Stoops isn't stupid. Tressel isn't stupid either. Gameplan will be stack the box and force Texas to pass pass pass. THEY CAN'T PASS! If they can, they can't do it on consistent basis.
OU will be very talented next year. Texas may have more talent but they do not have the "athletes" to beat OU.
I don't respect Texas and Brown a whole lot because he tries to win with just having better players. He doesn't win on coaching/adjustments.
Look at how USC played OU (vs Texas over OU) last year and USC is not even familiar with OU. USC coaches knew how to attack the defense of OU. SPREAD THE BALL AROUND THE FIELD AND ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK! OU loves to blitz and put pressure on QB? So what did USC coaches do? They rolled Lienart out on majority of his passes and it worked like a charm. Lienart had not done that too often all year. Every year I watch Texas/OU and Brown doesn't do ANYTHING special and always plays conservative. If Brown was the coach of USC in that game, I guarantee you he would have played conservative and tight to vest. Prob. run run pass run run pass etc. Don't make mistakes. Lets hang in there. LOSERS MENTALITY! That is why OU has success over Texas. Not very hard to coach against Texas when you know what they like to do.
According to OLYMPIC SPORTSBOOK
OU is +150 to win Big 12
Texas is +175 to win Big 12
OU is 12-1 to win BCS NC
Texas is 12-1 to win BCS NC
It appears oddsmakes/bettors have some respect for OU next year and they may be a talented team again! Otherwise they would have OU at 15-1 or 20-1 and make a killing if they thought OU wasn't that talented because $$$$ would be coming in on OU.
gman2
Tressel is highly respected by many as a coach. But my question is this. If he is such a great coach and recruiter, WHY can't he put out a decent offense? Why does it take so long? He still has not put together a high powered offense. This is my only knock against him. He is not getting the job done offensively.
I think him liking to play conservative is BS. OSU won there National Championship playing a LOT of close games (even against bad teams) and having luck on there side. Who prefers to win that way? Put out a decent offense and dominate your opponents offensively and defensively. How dangerous of a team would OSU be if they had a good offense to go along with their great defense? Why doesn't he put that product out there. He is prob. a top 10 recruiter in the country.
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scott:
i think tressel came to ohio state trying to win with the same philosophy he did at youngstown state (being able to run the ball effectively, playing turnover-free, and dominating defensively)
it certainly wasnt/isnt the most aesthetically pleasing style out there but its been pretty effective. i do think that ohio state will be a lot more wide open on offense this year, but time will tell. youd think after seeing the way they dominated michigan and oklahoma state that theyd realize that they need to take advantage of their skill position players.
its not like tressel hasnt been bringing in blue-chip offensive players. ginn was top 5 recruit 2 years ago. and before that, zwick was the #1 quarterback in the country coming out of high school. yeah they were in-state guys so osu may have had a built in advantage but he still got big time offensive players to sign.
ill go back to what i said before the michigan game last year (when you, at the time, told me i was nuts). ohio state has serious talent on their roster and is never outclassed in any game they play. but like you said, their style of play is insanely boring at times and it makes no sense. but thats in no way an indictment of the talent that is all over that roster.
i think tressel came to ohio state trying to win with the same philosophy he did at youngstown state (being able to run the ball effectively, playing turnover-free, and dominating defensively)
it certainly wasnt/isnt the most aesthetically pleasing style out there but its been pretty effective. i do think that ohio state will be a lot more wide open on offense this year, but time will tell. youd think after seeing the way they dominated michigan and oklahoma state that theyd realize that they need to take advantage of their skill position players.
its not like tressel hasnt been bringing in blue-chip offensive players. ginn was top 5 recruit 2 years ago. and before that, zwick was the #1 quarterback in the country coming out of high school. yeah they were in-state guys so osu may have had a built in advantage but he still got big time offensive players to sign.
ill go back to what i said before the michigan game last year (when you, at the time, told me i was nuts). ohio state has serious talent on their roster and is never outclassed in any game they play. but like you said, their style of play is insanely boring at times and it makes no sense. but thats in no way an indictment of the talent that is all over that roster.
The fact that Stoops is a great coach is a misconception.
Take away the Texas series and I say that because everyone always says Mack Brown losses that game more than Stoops wins it.
Stoops wins very few big games.
Credit to him for 2000 Champs,but in 2001 had only 1 other tough game other than Texas.Neb and lost.Also lost to OKST(4-7).
2002---Lost to A&M(6-6) and OKST again.Other than Texas no good teams on schedule.
2003---Took care of biz in reg season.Choked against KSU(11-4) in Big 12 game.Still played in big game vs. LSU and lost.
2004--- Weak reg season schedule and only real game was USC and they were smoked.
Show me one non Texas big win Stoops has after 2000.
Don't get me wrong he turned the program around fast and is a solid coach,but great.Please.
Back to the subject:
Texas should not be favored on the road vs. anybody decent.
Last year:Had nice wins over a bad CU team at the time,pounded TT,and beat Mich(Rose) away from Austin.Look at the others.
Needed Matt Jones moron ass to bail them out in that one.
Got a very lucky offensive interference in the KU win.
The horseshoe at night= Texas loss and then they beat OU.
Take away the Texas series and I say that because everyone always says Mack Brown losses that game more than Stoops wins it.
Stoops wins very few big games.
Credit to him for 2000 Champs,but in 2001 had only 1 other tough game other than Texas.Neb and lost.Also lost to OKST(4-7).
2002---Lost to A&M(6-6) and OKST again.Other than Texas no good teams on schedule.
2003---Took care of biz in reg season.Choked against KSU(11-4) in Big 12 game.Still played in big game vs. LSU and lost.
2004--- Weak reg season schedule and only real game was USC and they were smoked.
Show me one non Texas big win Stoops has after 2000.
Don't get me wrong he turned the program around fast and is a solid coach,but great.Please.
Back to the subject:
Texas should not be favored on the road vs. anybody decent.
Last year:Had nice wins over a bad CU team at the time,pounded TT,and beat Mich(Rose) away from Austin.Look at the others.
Needed Matt Jones moron ass to bail them out in that one.
Got a very lucky offensive interference in the KU win.
The horseshoe at night= Texas loss and then they beat OU.
SCOTT4USC---
I agree with some things you say and not others.
Young is a great QB becasue you want the ball in your best players hands.Horrible passer with a simple offense.He makes good decisions. You say Texas is easy to prepare for and coach against then Young must be pretty damn good to be 21-4 the last 2 seasons if he is one dimensional.
The fact that OU will be very talented next season is a joke.No one knows what to expect with so many players gone.
Next Year the gameplan vs. OU will be stack the box and force Thompson to pass.
One thing I know is that the O/U in the Tex/OU game will go under for sure.
I agree with some things you say and not others.
Young is a great QB becasue you want the ball in your best players hands.Horrible passer with a simple offense.He makes good decisions. You say Texas is easy to prepare for and coach against then Young must be pretty damn good to be 21-4 the last 2 seasons if he is one dimensional.
The fact that OU will be very talented next season is a joke.No one knows what to expect with so many players gone.
Next Year the gameplan vs. OU will be stack the box and force Thompson to pass.
One thing I know is that the O/U in the Tex/OU game will go under for sure.
kegray1 said:
(found these numbers elsewhere)
OU COACHING ACCOMPLISHMENTS
?Stoops is 67-12 overall, 3-3 in bowls, 3-2 in January bowls, 2-2 in BCS games, 44-8 vs. the Big 12, 25-5 vs. the Big 12 South, 19-3 vs. the Big 12 North, 3-1 in the Big 12 title game , 24-4 vs. non-conference opponents, 36-1 at home , 20-6 on the road, 11-5 on neutral fields and 21-5 vs. ranked opponents.
btw- that final stat is all i need to know. i will say that i used to feel he was hands down the best coach in america, however, after the last two title games, i have to say he isnt the clear cut best, but hes absolutely top 5. that effort vs. florida state in 2001 was dominant. they destroyed what people felt was a good washington state team in the rose bowl 2 years ago. all told, he might not be the hands-down best anymore, but he is as good as they come.
I love the fact that it is May and we are already talking about this game. Personally, I think this will be one of the top games all year and agree winner has inside track to Rose Bowl. Also, I am planning to attend this game in person and can't wait overall for CFB to start. OSU's defense has the talent and ability this year to be better than the '02-03 Championship Team. With OSU it always comes down to the offense and more importantly the QB's not to LOSE the game. Krenzel did enough to win while he was there but much more importantly did not make turnovers. At that time he also had the benefit of a running game which this team will need to do early to open up the offense. It is amazing to think that teams might actually challenge OSU to run against them with an untested backfield.
Another interesting note is that OSU does not open against a cupcake this year and I truly believe Miami(OH) will match-up with them well. Miami's defense will be the best in the MAC this year and present a good test. This is not a game to be overlooked considering questions with the QB and RB positions and a lack of a tested kicking game for OSU. Nugent's leg was a factor not only for FG's BUT also the amount of touch-backs which kept teams buried in their own territory. That is something to remember considering Miami has the BEST KR in CFB with Ryne Robinson. He is a difference maker similar to Ginn for OSU. The kid had 3 TD's called back last year including a VERY questionable one in the opener @Michigan which could have changed that game early.
Big things will be expected for Texas and OSU which should make for a great game. Lots to think about until then but clearly one of the best match-ups next year.
Another interesting note is that OSU does not open against a cupcake this year and I truly believe Miami(OH) will match-up with them well. Miami's defense will be the best in the MAC this year and present a good test. This is not a game to be overlooked considering questions with the QB and RB positions and a lack of a tested kicking game for OSU. Nugent's leg was a factor not only for FG's BUT also the amount of touch-backs which kept teams buried in their own territory. That is something to remember considering Miami has the BEST KR in CFB with Ryne Robinson. He is a difference maker similar to Ginn for OSU. The kid had 3 TD's called back last year including a VERY questionable one in the opener @Michigan which could have changed that game early.
Big things will be expected for Texas and OSU which should make for a great game. Lots to think about until then but clearly one of the best match-ups next year.
This statement is typical of the uninformed. Young is constantly underrated as a passer because his incredible running ability overshadows his above average passing game. Last season he completed 132 of 222 attempts (59.5%) for 1,669 yards and 11 touchdowns. When your quarterback runs the ball 146 times in 12 games for 887 yards and 10 touchdowns, there are not a lot of plays left to pass the ball. Don?t forget that Cedric Benson also got his share of touches with 326 attempts for 1,834 yards.Scott4USC said:
In his last year of high school, Young threw for 2,340 yards and 39 touchdowns to go along with his 1,735 yards and 22 more scores on the ground in 14 games and was the top recruit in the nation.
Don?t count this kid out yet. He will give Ohio State all they bargain for and more.
gman2
Thats why I question why is it taking him so long for Ohio St. to develop an offense. He recruits well and has had plenty of time. When he came to OSU, he already had talented players on the team. So what is his excuse? Isn't the goal to have a dominating offense and defense? Or would he prefer just a dominating defense? That is my only knock on Tressel. He isn't getting the job done offensively and relies too much on luck (or fortunate things) to win games. Sorta playing not to lose. That is not good coaching and is a big negative on Tressel in terms of coaching.
I know you used to think Stoops was #1. I think it is obvious Pete Carroll is #1 and by a landslide. There is no weakness in Pete Carroll. He is prob. the hardest working coach in CFB. He is prob. the #1 recruiter. He plays freshman and they play well in pressure situations. His teams dominate offensively and defensively. His teams ALWAYS improve as the season goes on. He has beaten Stoops, Ferentz, and Carr in 3 straight BCS bowl games when all 3 opponents had EXCELLENT teams and were considered one of the hottest teams in the country at the time. He is a great CEO in terms of evaluating his assistant coaches and bringing in top notch coaches even from NFL! I did not even bring up his record!
He does have 3 things in his favor. USC tradition, location, and $$$$.
My top 5 coaches who I like.........
#1) Carroll
#2) Ferentz
#3) Stoops
#4) Tedford
#5) Tressel
I watched Texas a lot. I would not want Young as my QB on my team. He is SUPERB athlete but not a QB. Majority of his "completed" passes are dump offs/short passes. I would NEVER rely on him throwing the ball down the field to win a game. That is why it is easy to gameplan against Texas. Stack the line and force Texas to throw the ball. Texas doesn't run a complicated offense and always plays conservative. In fact, Texas will STILL try and pound the ball with a stacked defense on the line. Now I am going by what I have seen of Young. This upcoming season he could turn out to be a great passing QB. Last year he was not. What are Young's stats against great defensive teams? FYI, Texas didn't play too many great defensive teams.
Thats why I question why is it taking him so long for Ohio St. to develop an offense. He recruits well and has had plenty of time. When he came to OSU, he already had talented players on the team. So what is his excuse? Isn't the goal to have a dominating offense and defense? Or would he prefer just a dominating defense? That is my only knock on Tressel. He isn't getting the job done offensively and relies too much on luck (or fortunate things) to win games. Sorta playing not to lose. That is not good coaching and is a big negative on Tressel in terms of coaching.
I know you used to think Stoops was #1. I think it is obvious Pete Carroll is #1 and by a landslide. There is no weakness in Pete Carroll. He is prob. the hardest working coach in CFB. He is prob. the #1 recruiter. He plays freshman and they play well in pressure situations. His teams dominate offensively and defensively. His teams ALWAYS improve as the season goes on. He has beaten Stoops, Ferentz, and Carr in 3 straight BCS bowl games when all 3 opponents had EXCELLENT teams and were considered one of the hottest teams in the country at the time. He is a great CEO in terms of evaluating his assistant coaches and bringing in top notch coaches even from NFL! I did not even bring up his record!
He does have 3 things in his favor. USC tradition, location, and $$$$.
My top 5 coaches who I like.........
#1) Carroll
#2) Ferentz
#3) Stoops
#4) Tedford
#5) Tressel
The Judge said:
I watched Texas a lot. I would not want Young as my QB on my team. He is SUPERB athlete but not a QB. Majority of his "completed" passes are dump offs/short passes. I would NEVER rely on him throwing the ball down the field to win a game. That is why it is easy to gameplan against Texas. Stack the line and force Texas to throw the ball. Texas doesn't run a complicated offense and always plays conservative. In fact, Texas will STILL try and pound the ball with a stacked defense on the line. Now I am going by what I have seen of Young. This upcoming season he could turn out to be a great passing QB. Last year he was not. What are Young's stats against great defensive teams? FYI, Texas didn't play too many great defensive teams.
Sun Tzu said:
Big 12 conf. does not run sophisticated offenses. OU was considered to have one of the top defenses in the Big 12 and country. They looked clueless against USC. They didn't think you could spread the ball around like USC did. That was quoted by players. Guess what, that is Pac 10 football. Offenses in the Pac 10 are very sophisticated and QB's generally are excellent passers. They spread the ball around and are extremely difficult to defend when an offense is clicking. Why did Pac 10 defenses defend USC much better than OU? Didn't OU have all these NFL drafted players on defense? Flip it around and USC defended OU's offense better than Pac 10 offenses. OU was considered to have one of the best offenses in the Big 12 and country.
Simply put, OU was not prepared in conf. play to face USC. They looked CLUELESS and they had MONTHS to prepare. Pac 10 teams had a week to prepare for USC!
Big 12 is not a good defensive conference AND most teams in the conf. don't run sophisticated offenses.
