amnesty international call guantanamo "the gulags for our times"

[gardenweasel]

first off...that may be the most moronic thing i`ve read from any supposedly legitimate organization in my lifetime....

it`s utterly irresponsible....it`s wrong.....it`s another shot over the bow after our own media has done it`s best to undermine our military....

it`s such an exaggeration it would be laughable.....if you didn`t know that the arab rags that pass for news organizations aren`t using it and the arab streets weren`t buying it hook ,line and sinker...

any body with a brain...that`s ever read a book....that has even a modicum of knowledge about the gulags,knows that this was meant to do nothing more than inflame the arab world and create more anti-american feeling....

and violence....

forget the ludicrous comparison to the gulags..

you have to be an utter num-num to even make that comparison...to say guantanamo and gulag in the same sentence...

..gulags...in which it is estimated that as many as 2 million people perished...just when compared to what these radicals are doing to civilians in iraq...it`s ridiculous....other muslims.....

indiscriminate bombing.....chopping off of heads...

and guantanamo is the object of their ire?....

i`m serious....we need to shut off all this g-damned aid we are sending all over the fricking world(we just sent 50 mill to the palestinians...where the f-ck are all these oil rich countries when their brethren need them?...let saudi arabia tow the line...and kuwait...and egypt).........

try and get the iraqi`s on their feet as fast as possible and get the hell out...

build our military to monolithic proportions...so it would be utterly unthinkable for any country to go against us...

and become utterly ruthless with terrorists....make terrorism an exception to anything constitutional.....extreme times call for extreme measures...

f-ck you,aclu...move to france....chirac is ready to get kicked out on his ass....he screwed france up.....join him...

we can`t win the public relations battle around the world......we can`t even win it in our own country with some of the backwards thinking morons you encounter in this country......

no matter how good we try and be.....with our own media,hollywood and some of our own politicians,hell,our own citizens.... undermining our military(our sons,daughters,brothers and sisters).....our government....our country...

they just don`t get it....they are soft....they have short memories.......they don`t get it..

it`s coming to our shores again...and it`s going to make 9/11 look like a walk in the park....

so,lets earn some of this ire....make it tough for `em...

tit for tat....we won`t bother you....don`t bother us....

take all this f-cking aid....and use it to close the fricking borders....i mean so a fricking mouse can`t get through without our say so....the hell with the illegals...we`ll find somebody to mow the rich people`s lawns...and work in the factories...the hotels....

need breeds initiative....and this country has plenty of that...

i`d gladly pay more taxes....alot more taxes....those that can,should....

close the fricking u.n.....or at least make them get the hell out of n.y.....and let them become self sufficient...

we have the greatest country in the world....it`s time to help ourselves....

playing by the rules only gets you a sharp stick in the eye in today`s world....

get out of iraq as soon as possible....so our own hated media can find something else to blame on this administration......

nobody gets sh-t...unless they have something we need....

quid pro quo....one hand washes the other...


it`s time to close the f-cking candy store

it`s time to simplify our existence...

because the nice guy finishes last....and we are going to be the object lesson...

 

[bjfinste]

Weasel, my friend. Just take a nap. Settle down. Have a drink. Enjoy the finer things in life. I tend to just overlook your continued-ridiculous statements about the media (something I've gotten used to doing after reading countless posts from DTB and No Cigar), but outside of that, you seem like a guy who really seems to care. But your posts are continually seeming more and more paranoid and intense. Just try and calm down... trust me, you'll feel a lot better if you do.

 

[djv]

If we got the goods on some of these ass holes. Trie them hang them. What ever. If we don't have anything send em home. If there prisoners of war. Then treat them as our code states. Don't matter how they treat us. We live my higher standards. Just the way it is. We might not like it. But in the long run it always serves us well.

 

[gardenweasel]

well,bjf....i`m just getting a little tired of the media hurting our country(i.e. soldiers)with overkill on this abuse story....

and with the potential to "literally" hurt this country in the near future....on our own soil...

they never state the facts...the true facts...


that there has 68,000 detainees thus far in the war on terror...

and there has been 100 documented abuses....many of which have been the "mishandling" of the queran...

and the queran...is willingly given to the detainees by the military.....in 13 different languages....over 13,000 have been distributed to detainees...

just horrible..

they get culturally appropriate meals...exercise...the red cross monitors the situation....

yet,the american media keeps publishing allegations of abuse by detainees...

funny,but the terrorist manual found in a manchester, england raid in 2000 outlines that if captured,jihadists should allege torture and mistreatment as a ploy to be used to undermine america and it`s military....

look it up...


yes,they know that they can use our own media against us...the willing media...

who,i think are acting largely out of their blind hatred of bush...and partly out of self hatred and some sort of misguided liberal guilt....

cutting off their noses to spite their face...

i`d love to know the comparison of "abu ghraib" and "guantanamo" headlines in the n.y. times.... to the number of "oil for food" headlines....

no comparison...

if terrorists are able to carry out another spectacular attack on u.s. soil anytime soon, the least they could do afterwards would be to send the new york times a thank-you note for helping them keep their plans secret......

In its monday edition the times reports:

"Doubts about whether interrogators can employ coercive methods, officials said, could create problems at the start of a critical summer period when counterterrorism officials fear that Al Qaida might attack the United States."

why the doubts?

though the paper doesn't say so, the reason is clear enough.... thanks to the obsessive coverage by the times and the rest of the press of the abu ghraib prison scandal, u.s. intelligence gathering efforts have been thrown into chaos......

clearly...

as the paper explains, u.s.. interrogation methods are currently undergoing a top-to-bottom review, leaving intelligence officials uncertain what rules are in effect.....

the terrorists now have little to fear from interrogators...worried that the legal safeguards that they had believed were in place to protect them from internal sanctions or criminal liability may no longer exist......


so if and when we experience "problems" this summer - say, a dirty nuke exploding in the heart of times square or in some other metropolis, here's hoping that zarqawi remembers his manners, and doesn't forget to thank the folks who made it all possible......

 

[kosar]

so if and when we experience "problems" this summer - say, a dirty nuke exploding in the heart of times square or in some other metropolis, here's hoping that zarqawi remembers his manners, and doesn't forget to thank the folks who made it all possible......

So you're saying that if we get attacked again that it will be the medias fault? I think you're losing it, man.

 

[marine]

Gotta agree with ya weasal....

Kosar, I think he is saying that if a major terrorist event happens, it wont be the media's fault, but the media will have hindered the decision makers and enforcers enough that it prevents them from doing their job.

Just like blaming the bartender for your DWI

 

[gardenweasel]

thank you ,marine.....

but,unfortunately,the media is getting way to savvy.....

instead of printing stories with shadowy,flimsy sources..that can come back and bite `em on the ass......they are now saying the hell with the proof....

it`s every bit as effective to just print and publish the allegations of our enemies....

doesn`t matter that it`s part of the enemy`s strategy...

it still plays in the arab streets around the world....has the desired effect to smear our military and enflame muslim passions against us....

that`s our media....looking out for our boys....doing their part to .....

"SUPPORT THE TROOPS"...


now,excuse me while i have an out of stomach experience(or as it`s known at mickey d`s,the old round trip meal ticket)....

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

the gulags of ourtime--hmm Iquess they didn't mind Saddam cutting tounges out-beheading people ect a few years ago--must have never visited prisonors in Africa and China.Where do these clowns hang out if they consider this so horrific---and more on liberal clowns--Aclu just filed suit to have all pictures in Iraq prison ordeal published--now what purpose will this serve--except stir up more hate and cause more GI deaths.However it has to get by appeals before so not much worry--so far only one that approved it was liberal NY judge.

Rights Groups Blur Good and Bad

Monday, May 30, 2005

By David Asman



A viewer wrote to me last week, saying that he was fed up with groups like Amnesty International (search), who say that lines are getting blurred between what terrorists have been doing and what our own troops have been accused of doing. What this viewer then did is something that I really don't recommend. But it put things in perspective.

He went online and found the horrific video of Nick Berg (search) being beheaded. He could barely get through it. But he did, and nothing, he told me, did more to clear up any doubt about who represents good and who represents evil.

While we've had the inevitable slips in conduct in the course of fighting the war, the enemy's goal is to make barbarous behavior routine.

The problem with Amnesty International and groups like it, says Natan Sharansky (search), a survivor of the Soviet Gulag, is that it doesn't acknowledge two very different world visions. "In the democratic world,? Sharansky tells Time Magazine this week, ?there are violations of human rights, but they are revealed and dealt with. In a fear society, there are no violations of human rights because human rights just don't exist."

So on this Memorial Day, seek out men and women in uniform and thank them for risking their lives for freedom. But also thank them for putting up with the idiots who want to belittle their sacrifice by blurring the line between good and evil.

And that's the Observer.

 

[kosar]

Kosar, I think he is saying that if a major terrorist event happens, it wont be the media's fault, but the media will have hindered the decision makers and enforcers enough that it prevents them from doing their job.

Just like blaming the bartender for your DWI

That's ridiculous. The media isn't stopping anybody from 'doing their job.' If anything, the media was complicit in sugar coating this thing in March/April 2003. They failed in not analyzing the potential(and subsequently realized) pitfalls of this invasion. They were cheerleaders and let their customers down with the same jingoism that permeates this board.

I totally agree with your bartender/DUI analogy.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

"They failed in not analyzing the potential(and subsequently realized) pitfalls of this invasion"

I am curious Matt
What do you feel pitfalls of invasion are?
Considering how things stand now as result of invasion who do you think is worse off for it--who is better off?

Only drawback I see is cost of war--as far as death of soilders--if they weren't fighting terrorist there it would be, somewhere else.

I'll revert to the quote at end of movies "Tears in the Sun"

All it takes
for evil to triumph
is for good men to do nothing.
? Edmund Burke

 

[kosar]

I am curious Matt
What do you feel pitfalls of invasion are?

1. Underestimating, or not taking into consideration the resistance that we have gotten.

2. No exit plan whatsoever.

3. Cost in dollars.

4. Cost in deaths.

5. Cost in severely wounded.

6. Large % of military, and huge % of our best units being spent on a very questionable endeavor leaving us vulnerable for years to come.

7. Longterm recruitment damaged because of war itself, but also because of keeping soldiers in Iraq past their ETS and 12 month tours in Iraq turning into 18 month tours in many cases. Yes, technically when you sign up for the service you acknowledge that you can be held past your ETS in the time of war, but.....

8. All the aforementioned getting worse with each month that we're there and the worst yet to come when Iraq collapses into civil war when we leave.

Considering how things stand now as result of invasion who do you think is worse off for it--who is better off?

Saddam- worse off

America-worse off

Iran-unquestionably better off

Sunnis-worse off

Shiites-much better off

Kurds-better off for the time being

North Korea-better off

Israel-better off for the time being, the future TBD

Iraqi people-tough call presently, potentially much worse off if civil war ensues.

Al-Qaeda and every wannabe mercenary who hates America from 15 different countries- having a field day with their new playground that allows them to take pot shots at the best military in world history as we direct traffic in Baghdad.

All it takes
for evil to triumph
is for good men to do nothing.
? Edmund Burke

Sure, if the 'evil' is actually a threat to anything or anybody.

 

[dr. freeze]

lol the only reason N Korea and Iran COULD be better off is because they have heard 3 years of anti-American, anti-military hot air coming from INSIDE our country

at one time our credibility was restored, but the leftists have been quick to show the world how much we hate to act upon our principles

 

[gardenweasel]

the issue is the media`s handling of the prison abuse debacle....

i`m just saying that the media`s focus on this issue is so disproportionate to the actual facts,that it`s laughable....

and their obsession with the issue is not helping u.s.`troops..........certainly it is being used by our enemies to portray us as monsters....and as a recruiting tool....


i can understand al jazeera and the bbc taking wacks at us.....we know where they stand....

but our OWN media?....constantly harping on the military.....

clearly their hatred of bush has clouded their critical thinking on this issue...

how can you logically make the argument that all these inflammatory stories on abu ghraib do anything other than strengthen the enemy`s resolve? ....and defame our image abroad...

personally,i want our government to do whatever it deems necessary to extract any and all information that helps us fight these monsters....

and i`m not interested in knowing about it....

if this kind of jouralism had gone on during ww2,we might be speaking german or japanese right now...

as i said before,maybe some constitutional exceptions are needed regarding the war on terror...

the geneva convention CAN`T apply to these people....because THEY don`t observe the convention...

 

[djv]

All I know is never give up the freedom of the press. For good or bad it serves it's country as it should. Take it away and were about the same as N Korea, China and Iran. We may not always like what they say. But the good new is they can.
We should move on with these prisoners. Charge them and trie them or if we have nothing send them home. As for the war info seems everyone now admits intelligence was flawed. Some of those who should have new this got promotions by this adminastration. So I can't blame the press for buying in. But the press could have did a better job.

 

[kosar]

lol the only reason N Korea and Iran COULD be better off is because they have heard 3 years of anti-American, anti-military hot air coming from INSIDE our country

No, they're better off because they are now free to continue their nuclear program with no inspectors, seals or cameras. The reason that this has happened is because W shot his big mouth off by lumping them in with a country that we were preparing to attack.

Also, as long as we are tied up in Iraq, Jong-Il can be pretty much 100% assured that we will leave them alone.

Blame everything on Clinton if you want, but there is no denying the facts.

 

[dr. freeze]

"there is no denying the facts"

i absolutely love that line

You sound like this:

There was a murder in NYC today.
Bush is President.
You can blame Clinton, but there is no denying the facts.

 

[dr. freeze]

The reason that this has happened is because W shot his big mouth off by lumping them in with a country that we were preparing to attack.

explain to me how exactly your cause had this effect

 

[kosar]

GW,

Do you think the media should bury stories that cast us in a less than favorable light? I'm not talking about the Newsweek type of thing, but legitimate and verified stories.

It's funny, Wayne blames the media for us not winning in Vietnam, even though we had about 42 years of heavy fighting to try to win. Now you're laying the groundwork to blame the media in case we have another attack.

Of course, many people blamed Clinton for 9/11 and continue to blame him for our stalled stock market.

The media, UN, France and Germany are being blamed for the problems in Iraq.

My question is: does this administration have to take responsibility for anything at all? Or is there always another reason to explain away their screwed up decisions/actions?

 

[kosar]

"there is no denying the facts"

i absolutely love that line

You sound like this:

There was a murder in NYC today.
Bush is President.
You can blame Clinton, but there is no denying the facts.

Yeah, it's kinda like that, since Clinton is likely to be blamed for that murder in NYC.

I'm glad that you're at least acknowledging the facts. NK is better off.

 

[kosar]

explain to me how exactly your cause had this effect

Well, it's pretty simple. You have a paranoid, loony dictator in NK. He hears his country being lumped in the axis of evil with Iraq. He sees Iraq, a fellow member of the axis of evil club about to be invaded. Dictator thinks to self, 'hmmmm, I guess the cowboy is going down the list.'

Dictator decides to immediately kick inspectors out and remove cameras with the plan of removing 8,000 fuel rods to presumably be re-processed. This is completed in 2005.

Cause and effect, Freeze. Cause and effect.