amnesty international call guantanamo "the gulags for our times"

gardenweasel

el guapo
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Jan 10, 2002
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"the bunker"
not bury them.....also,not obsess on every story that undermines our military.....

o.k.,mr media defender.....what value does this headline in yesterday`s n.y times actually have?....

other than outing some c.i.a. operations that can only hurt our country and the effort to fight terror?.....

""""C.I.A. Expanding Terror Battle Under Guise of Charter Flights
Pavel Horejsi for The New York TimesA Casa 235 about to take off from Ruzyne Airport in Prague on a flight to Afghanistan operated by the C.I.A.-connected Aero Contractors.""


By SCOTT SHANE, STEPHEN GREY and MARGOT WILLIAMS
Published: May 31, 2005
This article was reported by Scott Shane, Stephen Grey and Margot Williams and written by Mr. Shane.

SMITHFIELD, N.C. - The airplanes of Aero Contractors Ltd. take off from Johnston County Airport here, then disappear over the scrub pines and fields of tobacco and sweet potatoes. Nothing about the sleepy Southern setting hints of foreign intrigue. Nothing gives away the fact that Aero's pilots are the discreet bus drivers of the battle against terrorism, routinely sent on secret missions to Baghdad, Cairo, Tashkent and Kabul.



Secret Fleet

Flight PlansWhen the Central Intelligence Agency wants to grab a suspected member of Al Qaeda overseas and deliver him to interrogators in another country, an Aero Contractors plane often does the job. If agency experts need to fly overseas in a hurry after the capture of a prized prisoner, a plane will depart Johnston County and stop at Dulles Airport outside Washington to pick up the C.I.A. team on the way.

Aero Contractors' planes dropped C.I.A. paramilitary officers into Afghanistan in 2001; carried an American team to Karachi, Pakistan, right after the United States Consulate there was bombed in 2002; and flew from Libya to Guant?namo Bay, Cuba, the day before an American-held prisoner said he was questioned by Libyan intelligence agents last year, according to flight data and other records.

While posing as a private charter outfit - "aircraft rental with pilot" is the listing in Dun and Bradstreet - Aero Contractors is in fact a major domestic hub of the Central Intelligence Agency's secret air service. The company was founded in 1979 by a legendary C.I.A. officer and chief pilot for Air America, the agency's Vietnam-era air company, and it appears to be controlled by the agency, according to former employees.

Behind a surprisingly thin cover of rural hideaways, front companies and shell corporations that share officers who appear to exist only on paper, the C.I.A. has rapidly expanded its air operations since 2001 as it has pursued and questioned terrorism suspects around the world.

An analysis of thousands of flight records, aircraft registrations and corporate documents, as well as interviews with former C.I.A. officers and pilots, show that the agency owns at least 26 planes, 10 of them purchased since 2001. The agency has concealed its ownership behind a web of seven shell corporations that appear to have no employees and no function apart from owning the aircraft.

The planes, regularly supplemented by private charters, are operated by real companies controlled by or tied to the agency, including Aero Contractors and two Florida companies, Pegasus Technologies and Tepper Aviation.

The civilian planes can go places American military craft would not be welcome. They sometimes allow the agency to circumvent reporting requirements most countries impose on flights operated by other governments. But the cover can fail, as when two Austrian fighter jets were scrambled on Jan. 21, 2003, to intercept a C.I.A. Hercules transport plane, equipped with military communications, on its way from Germany to Azerbaijan.

"When the C.I.A. is given a task, it's usually because national policy makers don't want 'U.S. government' written all over it," said Jim Glerum, a retired C.I.A. officer who spent 18 years with the agency's Air America but says he has no knowledge of current operations. "If you're flying an executive jet into somewhere where there are plenty of executive jets, you can look like any other company."

Some of the C.I.A. planes have been used for carrying out renditions, the legal term for the agency's practice of seizing terrorism suspects in one foreign country and delivering them to be detained in another, including countries that routinely engage in torture. The resulting controversy has breached the secrecy of the agency's flights in the last two years, as plane-spotting hobbyists, activists and journalists in a dozen countries have tracked the mysterious planes' movements.

Inquiries From Abroad

The authorities in Italy and Sweden have opened investigations into the C.I.A.'s alleged role in the seizure of suspects in those countries who were then flown to Egypt for interrogation. According to Dr. Georg Nolte, a law professor at the University of Munich, under international law, nations are obligated to investigate any substantiated human rights violations committed on their territory or using their airspace.""""""


how can you defend this shit?....printing the names of the private contractors?...exposing covert c.i.a operations?

have you lost your mind,kosar.....your objectivity...like the media has...

use your head,man....
 

kosar

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lol- you call me 'Mr. media defender' one more time and there will be trouble!

No, I haven't lost my mind.

Your story says that this operation was 'outed' 2 years ago.

'Journalists in 12 countries have tracked the planes movements.'

Apparently people became concerned that we were dropping people off to be tortured. That's all well and good, but of course it renders us complaining about how they treat our prisoners as reeking of hypocrisy.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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North Korea better off???? I know Kim is celebrately Bush taking Clintons meal ticket from them. How in any way shape or form or they better off.
On exit stratagy--How can you define one until what you set out to accomplsh is finished. The only defined exit stratagy I've seen in last 20 years was Clintons in Somolia and didn't really care for it.

America worse off?? for liberals maybe as we the people continue cut there numbers from congess in each election--and when in the history of the U.S. that we have been at war has recruitment ever increased?--the fear facror--at least we have not had to draft as we did in other wars.
----and while we have been there fighting how many military have died in embassy bombing in other countries--how many jet liners taken,ships blown up--how many more attempts on our homeland. If you want to wait and let them continue to take their war to us at their convenience as in the past vote for Hiliary,you'll probably get instant replay.

and my opinion on civil war there--it would be long term solution not a problem.
 

kosar

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Wayne,

You must have missed my previous posts. I explained why North Korea is better off. They get all the oil they need from China and all the food they need for their military, which is where it all went/goes anyways. Any food or oil that we gave them was more of a diplomatic(W should look the word up) gesture than any sort of far-reaching humanitarian effort. W botched this up and history very well may show it to be his worst mistake of all.

and when in the history of the U.S. that we have been at war has recruitment ever increased?--

Silly comment. Please name the last major war where there wasn't a draft and that showed similar drops in enlistments. And I wouldn't be so quick to make comments about 'not having a draft.' We are one N. Korea invasion into S. Korea away from absolutely needing one.

And again, if you are quick to praise this admin for no *more* 9/11's for a whole 3 1/2 years, then you have to assign blame to them for 9/11. You can't have it both ways.

I can't really grasp how a civil war is your idea of a 'long term solution.' I'd love to hear the reasoning on that one.

If and when it happens, the result is predictable. Iraq will become Iran light and scores of civilians will be killed. It would also mean that all of our efforts to establish a democracy there would be for naught. It would mean that all of the money, all of the lives that we gave would be for nothing.

The entire middle east would be further destabilized and God knows which other countries would enter the fray, either officially or unofficially.

That doesn't seem like much of a 'solution' to me.
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
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what prisoners?.....what prisoners of ours are they holding?


nick berg?......that poor japanese fellow....that woman hassan that spent her whole life working for the people of iraq?....

they`re prisoners like marie antoinette is a prisoner...

are they playing by some rules?...are they observing the geneva convention?....

that`s just silly...

it bothers you that because the press tries to tie our hands and make real interrogation of terrorists almost impossible,that we fly them somewhere so that they can be interrogated?....

the media bitches about interrogation...then,they bitch about us sending terrorists someplace else to be interrogated?....

they are trying to kill YOU!!!!

they want your family DEAD!!!

we are recapturing these monsters a second time after they`ve been released from these camps...thanks to all the bitching from the media and all these aclu types.....they`re out there AGAIN trying to kill our soldiers....

you can wax philosophical till you`re blue in the face......and work to undermine the military 24/7.....and

awww,forget it...i just don`t understand your mindset...

it`s french,i think...


i really wish bush`s presidency would come to an end so you guys would wake up out of your fantasy hate-haze and/or ether binge and realize that this is not a political game.....

they don`t hate us because of bush....they hated us under clinton.....the 9/11 attacks were obviously being planned during the clinton presidency....

these people are trying to kill us....

and with the help of you la la landers,they will probably succeed....



WAAAKE UUPPP :mj01: :mj08:
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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Sorry I missed the post Matt but I emphatically disgree--I think GW putting him on list was best thing to happen and should have put them at #1.
Remember the boat they stopped with rockets headed to middle east from NK shortly after GW took office.Their primary source of income is arms and drug traffic which has been curtailed since since being put on shit list--mainly out of fear of consequences by the receiving countries (like Lybia) How much respect (fear) do you suppose Clinton put in them by doing nothing and in fact aiding NK???
China will give them enough to survive but want nukes there no more than U.S. does in fact much more of threat to them.
Will be matter of time till population in NK has had enough.When it takes armed gaurds on border of S.K and China to keep droves of NK population out and imprisonment to disway their population from leaving you know they are in trouble.
I don't think Kim can make it 3 more years--any hope he had was canned in our last election.
The only people Chinese dislike more than North Koreans are the Japanese.
 
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AR182

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Amnesty International leadership donated to Kerry's campaign

Amnesty International leadership donated to Kerry's campaign

this is why this organization should be ignored....they are supposed to be neutral....& they're not.


Amnesty leadership aided Kerry


By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


The top leadership of Amnesty International USA, which unleashed a blistering attack last week on the Bush administration's handling of war detainees, contributed the maximum $2,000 to Sen. John Kerry's presidential campaign.

Federal Election Commission records show that William F. Schulz, executive director of Amnesty USA, contributed $2,000 to Mr. Kerry's campaign last year. Mr. Schulz also has contributed $1,000 to the 2006 campaign of Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, Massachusetts Democrat.

Also, Joe W. ?Chip? Pitts III, board chairman of Amnesty International USA, gave the maximum $2,000 allowed by federal law to John Kerry for President. Mr. Pitts is a lawyer and entrepreneur who advises the American Civil Liberties Union.

Amnesty USA yesterday told The Washington Times that staff members make policy based on laws governing human rights, pointing out that the organization had criticized some of President Clinton's policies.

We strive to do everything humanly possible to see that the personal political perspectives of our leadership have no bearing whatsoever upon the nature of our findings and the conduct of our work,? a spokesman said.

Amnesty International describes itself as nonpartisan. Disclosure of the leadership's political leanings came yesterday as the Bush administration continued to lash out at the human rights group for remarks last week by Irene Khan, Amnesty's secretary-general.

Mrs. Khan compared the U.S. detention center at U.S. Naval Base Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where more than 500 suspected al Qaeda and Taliban members are held, to Soviet dictator Josef Stalin's ?gulag? prison system.

At the same time, Mr. Schulz issued a statement calling Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and other top administration officials ?architects of torture.? Mr. Schulz suggested that other countries could file war-crime charges against the top officials and arrest them.

Since Sunday, Air Force Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; Vice President Dick Cheney; and President Bush have accused Amnesty International of irresponsible criticism.

Yesterday, it was Mr. Rumsfeld's turn.

No force in the world has done more to liberate people that they have never met than the men and women of the United States military,? Mr. Rumsfeld said at the Pentagon press conference. ?That's why the recent allegation that the U.S. military is running a gulag at Guantanamo Bay is so reprehensible. Most would define a gulag as where the Soviet Union kept millions in forced labor concentration camps. ... To compare the United States and Guantanamo Bay to such atrocities cannot be excused.?

Amnesty International has hit the White House for refusing to treat suspected al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists as prisoners of war subject to the Geneva Conventions; for abuses at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq; and for a list of largely unsubstantiated complaints from detainees at Guantanamo.

Mr. Rumsfeld said ?at least a dozen? of the 200 detainees released from Guantanamo ?have already been caught back on the battlefield, involved in efforts to kidnap and kill Americans.?

Mr. Schulz posted a statement yesterday on Amnesty's Web site (www.amnesty.org) that said, in part, ?Donald Rumsfeld and the Bush administration ignored or dismissed Amnesty International's reports on the abuse of detainees for years, and senior officials continue to ignore the very real plight of men detained without charge or trial.?

Amnesty International's Web site states it is ?independent of any government, political ideology, economic interest or religion. It does not support or oppose any government.?
 

djv

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9/11 was a intelligence blunder. But they did have the info three weeks before that horrible day. But no one paid attention. I know if Clinton had been in office at that time. I would say you dumb SOB. He was not. So Bush was the dumb SOB. How many weeks did he need at the ranch to cut brush.
Kosar first real war with out a draft in over 150 years. And I see the college enlistments are up. But the armed services are way down. People are sick of being lied to.
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
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"the bunker"
after reading up on the n.korean situation,my opinion is that china condones what n.korea is doing....

i believe,that although they probably have made it known to kim that the sabre rattling is just fine with them,that he can under no circumstances step over that line...

keeping a burr under our saddle...giving china some "juice" as sort of a broker on the n. korean issue,seems to be working fine for them...

what will change the equation would be our giving the o.k. to japan and s.korea to get their own nuclear programs going....

that would be rolling the dice...

that threat may coerce china into taking a more pro-active stance on reigning in n.korea....but, would undermine our stance on nuclear proliferation...particularly in the middle east...

and,how will kim jung-il react to such a turn of events?....

just how unstable is this guy?....

honestly...seeing how unstable the situation with n. korea and nuclear weapons is,why is anyone surprised that the u.s. is willing to go to extraordinary lengths to keep that first middle eastern theocracy or despot from getting it`s hands on the bomb?...and i`m not even considering the terrorist situation and potential ramifications..

once that door is opened,it changes everything....

the prospect of an all-out war...fraught with nuclear potential...is magnified 100 fold....


obviously the israeli situation is the fulcrum of the problem...but,say we had left saddam alone....say that the israeli`s hadn`t bombed his first attempt at building a nuclear reactor in the 80`s(thanks to our "allies" the french).....

what would have happened if he`d gotten the bomb?.... what would he have done to his hated enemy iran?.....would he still be in kuwait controlling a large part of middle eastern oil?....

how would he react to iran`s nuclear ambitions?...which probably would have been accelerated considerably if saddam had been left unchecked?...keeping up with the joneses....

and that type of war could bring our country to it`s knees(the energy/oil ramifications).....change our lives for a generation...not to mention the rest of the modern world...

why the rest of the world can`t figure this out....why they think a few comparatively small oil deals are more important than averting a major catastrophe,makes you lose a little faith in humanity...
 
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