north korea successfully tests nukes...

[gardenweasel]

North Korea Says Nuclear Test Successful
Oct 08 11:25 PM US/Eastern



"North Korea said Monday it has performed its first-ever nuclear weapons test. The country's official Korean Central News Agency said the test was performed successfully and there was no radioactive leakage from the site.

"The nuclear test is a historic event that brought happiness to the our military and people," KCNA said.

South Korea's Yonhap news agency said the test was conducted at 10:36 a.m. (9:36 p.m. EDT Sunday) in Hwaderi near Kilju city, citing defense officials. "

the news says that there is expected to be "a flurry of activity at the u.n. tomorrow"...........

i don`t know about you guys,but i feel better already....

hey!!....what`s up with marc foley?

 

[gardenweasel]

"paging madeline albright"...."paging hans brix"......

 

[gardenweasel]

i just saw this news flash....

"at the u.n., the people who work in the following have been ordered to come to work early tomorrow:"

"department of dirty looks"......the "strongly-worded letter writing group"...and,the "group of grave concern".....

 

[gardenweasel]

fox news is reporting that wolf blitzer is in his pajamas driving to cnn headquarters right now(2:15 a.m. eastern).....

where is everybody?.....i`m used to playing in the sandbox by myself,but this is ridiculous....:nono:

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Good Morning GW

Is interesting development.They sure gave everyone the fingure including China on this one,if in fact they did set one off which should be easily verifiable.

Would indicate to me he is very desperate.Have seen reports U.S. sanctions on bank accounts in McCau and other places on receipts from conterfeiting-drug smuggling ect has put huge crimp in their cash flow and their citizens are looking at worst winter ever.

If others follow suit and they will be in dire straights. Kim has taken gamble we and others will again bow to blackmail--will be interesting to see who bites.

China will be ultimate to determine outcome--and I think they are very concerned of "nuclear defence" on island of Japan along with possibiltirs of deranged Kim.

 

[StevieD]

Well, if I was in charge of a country and saw a bunch of chickenhawk warmongers (who have enough nukes to blow up the world many times) aggressively spin ANY scrap of info they can obtain (real or not) to justify invading a country that is not a threat............I'd want nukes also!!!!!!!!!
Just Sayin':shrug:

 

[Chadman]

Boy, it sure warms my heart to see that our best hope of containing a real maniac that actually has a WMD lies in the hands of China.

Nice plan, that. I'm sure they will have our best interest at heart. Maybe they will call some of our loans due to help pay for the containment.

 

[djv]

Chadman you call one evil. Then you don't talk with them. We should expect the out comes will not be so good. THey have some type six party talks that are show. They ask to talk with us straight up. After all We do have the cease fire agreement with them . But we just call names and avoid contact. Great policy it worked well. Now everyone will go in circles.

 

[THE KOD]

condy said it was provocative for N Korea to test
a n bomb.

All the talks and sanctions didnt stop them.

How to stop Iran now.

US has little control over these crazy countries.

:scared :scared :scared

 

[gardenweasel]

Well, if I was in charge of a country and saw a bunch of chickenhawk warmongers (who have enough nukes to blow up the world many times) aggressively spin ANY scrap of info they can obtain (real or not) to justify invading a country that is not a threat............I'd want nukes also!!!!!!!!!
Just Sayin':shrug:

:mj01:

the headlines...even in the liberal msm read...north korea defies "the world".....not bushitler....

you`re spinning....

he`s a legit danger to sell the technology to less than desirable elements......that may wish to do us harm.....

this is the guy that`s lobbing rockets over japan....

he`s obviously irrational and poses a grave threat to japan and south korea....and could use the weapon as leverage to extort aid and favorable treatment from these countries and the world.....

and to top it all off....the salt in the wound...now the grass and bark that the north korean people eat will be radioactive...(warning...warning:libs,that was intended as dark humor..do not take literally)......

the real question in stevie`s mind isn`t the potential for catastrophe.....the destabilization of the region with practically every country inevitably looking to nuke up.....

for the stevie`s of the world it`s,...."what did hastert know about this....and when did he know it?"

 

[Chadman]

The other worrisome element: Didn't North Korea provide Iran with the technology - or at least the blueprints and info - for the nuclear use? Not talking about power, of course, talking about weaponry.

I think it's understood that Iran is seeking to become Nuclear, but this test should seal the deal as far as Iran worries are concerned.

So, on the Bush scorecard, we have North Korea and Iran now (or soon to be) outfitted with nucular (said it that way for Bush supporters, as this is his pronunciation) weapons, under his watch. Two of the three members of his axis of evil, that he said must be contained and prevented from obtaining and being able to use said weapons.

I'm sure that conservatives can spin this to be someone else's fault, and I don't have an immediate answer for how it could have been prevented. But when stuff happens - exactly the stuff you said would and you would prevent - aren't you on the hook for it?

Two countries - the most outspoken ones against our country at this point - now have nuclear capabilities to strike others and cause our country many problems. Or, possibly sooner than later, strike our country, or Israel. These are real issues, and our administration has simply failed us. You don't think North Korea would help get nukes in play to terrorists or another country to forward their dislike of us?

 

[gardenweasel]

The other worrisome element:

So, on the Bush scorecard, we have North Korea and Iran now (or soon to be) outfitted with nucular (said it that way for Bush supporters, as this is his pronunciation) weapons, under his watch. Two of the three members of his axis of evil, that he said must be contained and prevented from obtaining and being able to use said weapons.

I'm sure that conservatives can spin this to be someone else's fault, and I don't have an immediate answer for how it could have been prevented. But when stuff happens - exactly the stuff you said would and you would prevent - aren't you on the hook for it?

Two countries - the most outspoken ones against our country at this point - now have nuclear capabilities to strike others and cause our country many problems. Or, possibly sooner than later, strike our country, or Israel. These are real issues, and our administration has simply failed us. You don't think North Korea would help get nukes in play to terrorists or another country to forward their dislike of us?

so let me get this straight.....jmmy carter and madeleine albright/bubba gave a nuclear power plant and tons food to these guys so that this exact thing would not happen........

sooooooo........ what I want to know is just how did dick cheney and karl rove get a nuke to the north koreans?.....

i mean, that has to be the only reasonable explanation....

because somebody said "axis of evil?"....puhlease....

kim may be strange,but he`s also shrewd....there are 12 million people...and 30,000 american soldiers in and around seoul....and kim has ballistic missiles...possibly thousands of short range missiles pointing right at s.korea`s biggest population centers......and japan....

so,we`re going to invade?....i thought we were bogged down" in iraq?

chad...you should be charged with second degree "moon-battery"...:nono:

 

[gardenweasel]

i just heard theres a news conference at 3 pm eastern.....

chirac is announcing that france is surrendering to n. korea.....:brows:

 

[kosar]

so let me get this straight.....jmmy carter and madeleine albright/bubba gave a nuclear power plant and tons food to these guys so that this exact thing would not happen........

Yeah, Clinton. It was only a matter of time he would emerge in this thread. Took longer than I thought, actually.

Hey, who knows what thought process that nut Kim uses, but here is what we know:

1994- deal struck where we give food, oil and build light-water reactors in exchange for NK not using nuke techology for weapons. We do not build light-water reactors as promised(contrary to weasels uninformed comment) but we do give them the food and oil.

1994-2000- NK continues nuke weapons R&D, violating the agreement and 12 years later, still no light-water reactors, with us violating the agreement. Nothing much happens with NK in those years.

2000- despite all that, there are still inspectors on the ground allowed access, seals on the fuel rods and cameras in their nuke power facilities.

Then W issues his 'axis of evil' fatwa. Somewhere around this time, oil and food shipments are also halted to NK.

Weasel, you can downplay this all you want, but if you're a leader of a country and one of your fellow axis of evil members is about to be invaded and dismantled, and then subsequently is, wtf would you think or do?

After the cowboy pops off, Kim almost immediately boots the inspectors, removes the cameras and hauls the 8,000 rods off to be re-processed.

2006- nuke successfully tested.

You and your fellow goose-steppers naturally will blame Clinton, Carter and FDR for this, but just look at NK's posture during certain timeframes and you will see how ridiculous it makes you look.

In a situation like NK, 'success' can only be measured by degree. There will never be complete success when dealing with loons like Kim or Ahmeddinnerjacket.

So whose approach do/did you feel safer under?

Which approach came closer to 'success?'

This actions of this administration have brought us *this* close to turning the entire world into chaos.

As i've rambled on about before with plenty of reasons, there is no military solution to NK, and it's not because they may have deliverable nukes. (underground test does not equal deliverable weapon)

Wayne, up above, is correct that the ONLY way off this ledge is with the immense, strong help of China.

But China told them not to test those missiles in July. They did anyways. China told them not to test the nuke. They did anyways.

If China cuts off aid, they have just bought themselves a refugee problem of enormous proportions.

If we strike NK, then NK invades SK, and China gets a refugee crisis of unimaginable proportions.

So all this tough talk today by the gunslinger? We'll see.

 

[StevieD]

Hey Weasel. All this happened under Bush's watch. Don't go blaming Clinton. He had an agreement and to the best of our knowledge it was being upheld until Bush broke it.

You just don't get it do you. The world fell apart under Bush's watch, not Clinton's. And now you want this POS to keep making decisions for you?

Are you happy with the way Afghanistan and Iraq have turned out?

If Bush had his way the Arabs would be guarding our ports!

While the Weasels of this world spin everything to fault Clinton, they help create a clear path for the real criminal to continue selling our country piece by piece down the proverbial river.

Just sayin'

 

[AR182]

the key to stopping this is china...so if i was in charge of the u.s. i would start talking about arming japan with nukes....

 

[Chadman]

Moon battery? Because I state the obvious, soon followed by a play by play by Kosar highlighting the further reasons to hold the current administration responsible?

BUSH made this a big deal in his first major speech. What would you say, then, that he has done since to stop North Korea from advancing their program? Other than refusing to have face to face meetings with the country. Of that, I am most likely thankful, because in person he could only do damage by trying to communicate cognizant thought. Yes, that was a slam, but this is exactly the kind of thing I have the most problem with him about. Communication, or the lack of it. We're losers either way.

 

[kosar]

the key to stopping this is china...so if i was in charge of the u.s. i would start talking about arming japan with nukes....

The surest way to get China to jump back squarely with NK is to arm Japan with nukes.

I imagine this would be exactly what Kim wants.

 

[gardenweasel]

you morons(and i say that with great affection)...starting with djv and worsening as the thread progresses....

blaming...politicizing.....you`re pathetic...c`mon,guys...

sheesh...it`s not"all" clinton...although he`s culpable...as is bush to a lesser extent....as are previous administrations...

kosar....."Hey, who knows what thought process that nut Kim uses, but here is what we know:"

NO....that`s not what we know...what we know is that no one...not the iaea.....has ever had unfettered access to north korea.....

""Under the Agreed Framework, North Korea agreed to halt activities at its plutonium producing nuclear reactors in Pyongyang in exchange for a relaxation of economic sanctions, a gradual move toward normalization of diplomatic relations, fuel oil deliveries, and construction of a light-water reactor to replace the graphite-moderated reactor shut down at Pyongyang. Plutonium from light water reactors is harder to use for nuclear weapons than the plutonium procured by graphite-moderated reactors. 16 IAEA inspectors monitored North Korea's compliance. Upon completion of the light-water reactors, originally scheduled for 2003 but subsequently indefinitely delayed, North Korea was to dismantle its graphite reactors and ship its 8,000 remaining fuel rods out of the country.

Shortly after signing the agreement, North Korea began seeking nuclear weapons fuel through uranium enrichment. In the late 1990s, the United States began to receive scattered intelligence reports revealing a North Korean uranium enrichment program. Some evidence points to the existence of this program as early as 1987. This program apparently received new life in 1997 when Pakistan, strapped for cash by U.S. sanctions, began paying for its North Korean missile imports with uranium enrichment technology.

An unclassified CIA report from early 2002 reported that "[North Korea] has been seeking centrifuge-related materials in large quantities to support a uranium enrichment program. It also obtained equipment suitable for use in uranium feed and withdrawal systems." Last January, U.S. Undersecretary of State John Bolton accused North Korea of continuing its nuclear weapons program, and in February members of Congress expressed concern to the president about North Korea's uranium enrichment program. According to the New Yorker Magazine, the CIA delivered a secret report to top Bush administration officials in June, which found that Pakistan had provided centrifuge technology to North Korea. Centrifuges are essential in enriching uranium. A.Q. Khan, known as the father of the Pakistani nuclear bomb, has reportedly visited North Korea frequently in the "last decade"... U.S. intelligence apparently found definitive evidence of North Korea's uranium program by tracing an attempt to purchase a large amount of high-strength uranium, a substance essential to equipment used to enrich uranium, to North Korea. Some N.K.uranium enrichment facilities are ""likely located in the Hagap region, near the Chinese border. "".....

some facilities are "likely" located in the hagap region?.....

LIKELY?...what about those inspections?...the "agreed framework?"


the iaea miss those?....did they miss all those a.q. khan visits?....

who's brilliant idea was the "agreed framework" that effectively gave the maniacal dwarf with a pompadour the go-ahead to do as he pleased? ...

again...forget the nukes....this yo-yo reportedly spends 70% of his gdp on military expenditures..the people are eating bark...and now that`s radioactive..lol

if any administration decided to take down the n.k.'s proactively then they'd have to be ready to see tens of thousands of s.k.`s civilians killed....the n.k.'s reportedly have close to 9000 artillery, rocket and mortar pieces along the dmz..... bluntly,n. korea is holding a very large segment of s. korea's population hostage....and i don`t know what ANY administration can do about it...

you say bush failed?...then,so did truman and eisenhower and kennedy and johnson and ford and nixon and carter(spit) and reagan and bush sr. AND clinton.........

they all failed because they weren't willing to have hundreds of thousands of civilians killed....

we were never going to invade n.korea...this isn`t iraq...but it explains why clinton and bush were so adamant about not allowing saddam nuclear weapons....

they couldn`t afford to be wrong...and allow him a stranglehold on such a crucial region.....then,he`d have that lever
...this is exactly what iran`s doing.....and kim....

kim doesn`t need nukes to keep the u.s. off his ass...the military threat to seoul alone is plenty...

but,he does need nukes for his extortion...

three words caused all this?..."axis of evil"?....

bullshit....it`s extortion....plain and simple....we pay,or he threatens....

and seeing that this tactic works,who`s next?....we`ll be paying every tinpot dictator drawing breath...because,as we saw with iraq,and are seeing with iran and n.korea......the u.n. is corrupt and useless...

and i`m sure...in the near future...we`ll have another cuban missile crisis in venezuela....probably being iran`s surrogate........

you`d have to be a card carrying member of the "axis of stupid" to believe kim....a man who starves his own people....

the tough part is..."what`s the answer?"....not,"who can we blame for political gain"...


personally,i`m buying stock in the bomb shelter industry.....

...thanks guys.....now my left eye won't stop twitching.....i may be having a disconnect.

thanks for that...

 

[kosar]

the tough part is..."what`s the answer?"....not,"who can we blame for political gain"...

lol- you take the initial blame game shot at Clinton/Carter, but don't like the return fire I guess. What I can tell you is that things are infinitely more on the brink in 2006 compared to 2000. Those 3 words? You laugh. I guess the timing of all this was just pure coincidence.

I can tell you what the answer *isn't*, and that's needlessly provoking that nutcase right about the time you're about to obliterate one of his 'axis of evil' brothers.

Of course we can't invade(just that concept itself is absurd, as WE wouldn't be invading, it would be the ROK army), but the net result of 'surgical strikes' would be the same. The north would almost certainly invade SK if we do this. You speak of '10's of thousands of civilians killed?' Try 100's of thousands to a million civilians killed in SK alone in any sort of protracted war.

I agree with your overall theme (as best as I can understand it), that there is no good solution, and there never has been, and no military option, period. There was no military solution before they (apparently) have a nuke and there's none after. Not without sending Seoul back to the 1930's.

And stop throwing that crap in there about 'that's why we had to go get Saddam.' Nobody credible thought he had nukes, or was even close to having them and please don't cite Osirak in 1981 for the 50th time.

While we're rebuilding schools that we blew up in Iraq, the rest of the world must be laughing at us. Iran definitely is.