Thomas Paine Quote on Christianity

[gardenweasel]

Clint: Thanks for responding. At least you don't look away and act like it isn't there.

.

pretty tough to do(act like it`s not there)..it`s there..over and over and over....

a little friendly advice...

if you aren`t getting the attention you crave,why not just "bump" the thread?....rather than do 5 posts in a row that you could probably condense into one panel?...

just key this....."bump".....

keep doing it and eventually,you`ll offend someone enough to argue with you.....

/glad i could help..

 

[smurphy]

pretty tough to do(act like it`s not there)..it`s there..over and over and over....

a little friendly advice...

if you aren`t getting the attention you crave,why not just "bump" the thread?....rather than do 5 posts in a row that you could probably condense into one panel?...

just key this....."bump".....

keep doing it and eventually,you`ll offend someone enough to argue with you.....

/glad i could help..

Because Weasel NEVER makes consecutive posts.

 

[gardenweasel]

Because Weasel NEVER makes consecutive posts.

usually,only in a lame attempt at humor...
he has the right to do it...i have the right to make suggestions..:shrug:

the 1st amendment...freedom of speech and ..."congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or 'prohibiting the free exercise thereof' "....


wise men,they were.....

 

[smurphy]

And I have the right to say a smartass coment making fun of your critique. What is it with you people always thinking I'm trying to "silence" you? Good grief.

 

[gardenweasel]

And I have the right to say a smartass coment making fun of your critique. What is it with you people always thinking I'm trying to "silence" you? Good grief.

lay off the caffeine.....

sheesh...

 

[SixFive]

Clint: Thanks for responding. At least you don't look away and act like it isn't there.

What historical data are you referring to?

Unless it was covered in a class in HS or college that I've forgotten about, I haven't read anything by Flavius Josephus.....but you know it's now on the list.

The one that blows my mind is Justin Martyr. That guy stood at the door to the house of reason, and then spit on it. He had the answers, and then took the ridiculous position that those answers were placed their by the devil to sway the faithful. I wonder if he took that position as a passive aggressive tactic to show he knew, yet keep himself from getting killed.

very generally, Josephus was a Jewish historian in the years directly after Christ walked the earth. I'm extremely suprised u haven't heard of him?

pretty interesting link here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_archaeology

I almost feel like a Christian Apologetic on this forum, and really, that's the last thing I want to do. If you believe, great. If not (especially somebody as well read as u, Gary), I doubt there's anything for me to do besides pray, and I can hardly see doing that unless you want/request it.

add: wrote the above paragraph, then read about Justin Martyr who is classified as an apologist. Had honestly never heard of him until u posted his name. I'm not too strong in Christian events outside the Biblical confines. I suppose I really should get stronger there.

 

[The Judge]

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

pretty tough to do(act like it`s not there)..it`s there..over and over and over....

a little friendly advice...

if you aren`t getting the attention you crave,why not just "bump" the thread?....rather than do 5 posts in a row that you could probably condense into one panel?...

just key this....."bump".....

keep doing it and eventually,you`ll offend someone enough to argue with you.....

/glad i could help..

I appreciate the feedback and will take into consideration everything you have mentioned in this post, just as I do all your posts.

The sad truth is that the majority of your posts offer little to the debate (if at all), yet you find it necessary to criticize those of us that try to. Just because you live in this forum doesn't mean you run it. Personally, I can't stand when someone posts a novel in one window because there is too much to cover/retain. I prefer short bursts of information, thus, that is how I post.

Once again, thanks for the post and thanks for bringing absolutely nothing to the table.

Take care.

 

[smurphy]

Ooooooh! :0corn

 

[zoomer]

Flavius Josephus?

i need to get that on a jersey!

Flava Flav
(less letters)

 

[smurphy]

Flava Flav
(less letters)

yeah that's kinda what i was thinkin.

 

[gardenweasel]

I appreciate the feedback and will take into consideration everything you have mentioned in this post, just as I do all your posts.

The sad truth is that the majority of your posts offer little to the debate (if at all), yet you find it necessary to criticize those of us that try to. Just because you live in this forum doesn't mean you run it. Personally, I can't stand when someone posts a novel in one window because there is too much to cover/retain. I prefer short bursts of information, thus, that is how I post.

Once again, thanks for the post and thanks for bringing absolutely nothing to the table.

Take care.

short bursts of information?...fair enough..:SIB

i`m not running anything....that`s jack`s business(literally)....has anyone stopped you from posting?......of course not...

actually,i`m glad you agree that it`s very important that i be allowed to respond....that everyone with differing points of view respond....otherwise the forum might get quite dull and redundant(and speaking of redundant,i` believe we`ve already covered this territory...i remember our conversation with fondness)..........


that`s why the 1st amendment is so spot on... .the freedom to worship(or not to) as one pleases is an important of the fabric of this country...our constitution......

but,i`m sure you understand that when you belittle one`s faith,you might as well be insulting one`s family...it`s that important to some people...so,you reap what you sow..the kitchen tends to get a little hot around here on occasion..get those asbestos jammies on...


i hope i didn`t upset you by offering my suggestion...

btw..you site so many examples of different faiths(or myths as you`d describe them),having such profound similarities....

one could surmise that the similarities can just as easily lead one to the conclusion that if so many belief systems share the same basic tenets...the same theme...that maybe,that lends some credibility that there could possibly be one deity that different groups have adopted to fit their societal cultures...we`re talking over the course of thousands of years..

of course,it`s all speculation...you can`t "prove" your position,as the faithful can`t actually "prove" theirs...

and that`s where we differ...i say,"live and let live"(unless your faith wants to kill me)...

and you say,in your elitist manner,"you`re all fools and i take personal satisfaction in belittling your faith"....

i know it`s tough for someone as smart as yourself to tolerate such foolishness...that`s why i try and cut you some slack...

 

[3 Seconds]

Horus: Egyptian God of 3000 B.C.

-Born on December 25
-Born of a virgin
-Adorned by 3 kings
-Teacher at 12
-Baptized and started his own ministry at 30
-Traveled with 12 disciples
-Performed miracles (walked on water)
-Known as "The Light", "Lamb of God", and the "Good Shepherd"
-Crucified
-Dead for 3 days
-Resurrected

That sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it? What does that remind you of?

May I ask where you got this information? It is not accurate a quite misleading.

First off you are trying to compare Horus the Elder, not Horus. Horus was the god of War. There were many verisions.

The first and simplest to disprove is that he was not born to a virgin. Isis was his mother & she was married to her brother Osiris. Horus was born after Isis has sex with a golden penis of a resurrected Osiris. He was conceived 'magically' in that way, but far from born to a virgin.

In Egyptian mythology sexuality plays a very strong role. No viable historical site would pretend that Isis was a virgin.

Another obvious error is that he was not believed to be born on Dec 25th, but rather Dec 21st. At least not in the ancient times. There are some sources that will celebrate on the 25th, but that was change after the time of Christ.

He did not have 12 disciples, but rather 4.

Almost all of those so called 'facts' are not even close to factual. I can see how a religious source could try & interpret the correlation, but a true Egyptian historian would argue many of these statments. :nono:

I am no Christian apologists, I just hate to see people information to benefit their arguments when they are simply false.

 

[3 Seconds]

Oh I found Gmroz source for all this info & it is all very skewed.


I wont bother to go through all this, but it is safe to say about 80% of what he has posted about the info on these so called similarities between gods is nothing but garbage that has been manipulated to further his cause.

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

I wont bother to go through all this

I'd prefer you do.


Here's a link to the info on Horus and Jesus....
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

 

[3 Seconds]

I'd prefer you do.


Here's a link to the info on Horus and Jesus....
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

Well if I have some time tonight or tomorrow I will try & go through each god then and point out the manipulations & looseness of many points.....but this will take some time. Going to have to dust off some books from the grad schooldays....

A quick note from your own site in the footnotes it even says this about your Horus.

"Did Horus have 12 disciples?

Glenn Miller wrote:

"...my research in the academic literature does not surface this fact. I can find references to four 'disciples'--variously called the semi-divine HERU-SHEMSU ('Followers of Horus'). I can find references to sixteen human followers. And I can find reference to an unnumbered group of followers called mesniu/mesnitu ('blacksmiths') who accompanied Horus in some of his battles. ... But I cannot find twelve anywhere." 17

Was Horus born of a virgin?

Christian theologian Ward Gasque surveyed twenty contemporary Egyptologists. He asked them about the relationship whether Horus experienced a virgin birth. Ten responded; they all agreed that there is no evidence that Horus was born of a virgin.

Another thing you must remember, in at least the Egyptian case discussed here, is that Horus is a purely mythological creation. Jesus, no matter what your beliefs are, can not be denied as an actual living person that walked the Earth.

Lastly you can't trust everything you read on the internet. That site is not an academic website by any means. What they did was take bits and pieces of material from various sources, regardless the reliability of it & presented in a factual manner to further their objective.

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

Another thing you must remember, in at least the Egyptian case discussed here, is that Horus is a purely mythological creation. Jesus, no matter what your beliefs are, can not be denied as an actual living person that walked the Earth.

Oh really? You're telling me that in ancient Egypt, this was just a myth? It was a known mythology? You might want to check that.

I'm not denying that Jesus walked the earth, but I won't say it with certainty either, because the Jesus of the Bible is most likely a fictitious character based on a real person.

Lastly you can't trust everything you read on the internet. That site is not an academic website by any means. What they did was take bits and pieces of material from various sources, regardless the reliability of it & presented in a factual manner to further their objective.

I don't trust everything I read on the internet, but what category does the source below fit into?

Author and theologian Tom Harpur studied the works of three authors who have written about ancient Egyptian religion: Godfrey Higgins (1771-1834), Gerald Massey (1828-1907) and Alvin Boyd Kuhn (1880-1963). Harpur incorporated some of their findings into his book "Pagan Christ." He argued that all of the essential ideas of both Judaism and Christianity came primarily from Egyptian religion. "[Author Gerald] Massey discovered nearly two hundred instances of immediate correspondence between the mythical Egyptian material and the allegedly historical Christian writings about Jesus. Horus indeed was the archetypal Pagan Christ."

By the way, what constitutes an academic website? While you're at it, let me know what academic works DON'T take bits and pieces from various sources? The fact that you want this source to be garbage doesn't make it so, no matter how you try to spin it.

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

"Did Horus have 12 disciples?

Glenn Miller wrote:

"...my research in the academic literature does not surface this fact. I can find references to four 'disciples'--variously called the semi-divine HERU-SHEMSU ('Followers of Horus'). I can find references to sixteen human followers. And I can find reference to an unnumbered group of followers called mesniu/mesnitu ('blacksmiths') who accompanied Horus in some of his battles. ... But I cannot find twelve anywhere." 17

Here is Harpur's response:

Gasque denies that Horus had twelve disciples. This he says is a "questionable claim." However, the twelve disciple gods is a prominent theme in the ancient Egyptian religion (as also in the cult of Mithras). Horus, the sun god, is surrounded by the twelve signs of the zodiac, his "helpers" and "disciples."

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

Was Horus born of a virgin?

Christian theologian Ward Gasque surveyed twenty contemporary Egyptologists. He asked them about the relationship whether Horus experienced a virgin birth. Ten responded; they all agreed that there is no evidence that Horus was born of a virgin.

Here is Harpur's response:

He says there is no evidence for the idea that Horus was virgin born. This is simply false. There are various versions of how Horus was conceived, it is true. But, all of them involve a miraculous birth. In one tradition, Isis was impregnated by "a flash of lightening or by the rays of the moon." In The Golden Bough, Frazer tells how Isis conceived "while she fluttered in the form of a hawk over the corpse of her dead husband." In the ancient Syrian and Egyptian rituals of the nativity, the celebrants retired into inner shrines from which at midnight they issued with a loud cry "the Virgin has brought forth!" The Egyptians even represented the newborn sun by the image of an infant, which on his birthday, the winter solstice, was brought out and exhibited to the worshippers. Isis retained her virginity perpetually and was given the epithets "Immaculate Virgin" and "uncontaminated goddess," as well as "Mother of God."

By the way, I like how all 10 of Gasque's sources agreed that there was no evidence of a virgin birth. Must have been an objective lot.

 

[3 Seconds]

Oh really? You're telling me that in ancient Egypt, this was just a myth? It was a known mythology? You might want to check that.

I'm not denying that Jesus walked the earth, but I won't say it with certainty either, because the Jesus of the Bible is most likely a fictitious character based on a real person.


I don't trust everything I read on the internet, but what category does the source below fit into?


By the way, what constitutes an academic website? While you're at it, let me know what academic works DON'T take bits and pieces from various sources? The fact that you want this source to be garbage doesn't make it so, no matter how you try to spin it.

Egyptian religion is shrouded in many layers of myth. I know my facts, dont tell me what to check....when

You obviously are an angry guy of little knowledge on the subject. Your mind is made up on this topic & you WANT it so badly to be true, you can't be objective.

You are trying to be combative & I wont engage you . Sorry.

I have a degree in Religious Studies & a Masters in Theology, I think I know when a source on the subject is garbage.